Maynie is going to get hit with the nerf bat, what's going to be hit?

[Intra]

So... anyone who has played with Maynie can see Maynie can stack mad rage, pop hyper on a tank who doesn't die (and heals them with dinner) to keep a massive stat stack that makes her one of the strongest in the game.

Ideas on what's getting nerfed:
Show who is targeted
Don't lock stats in from using Hyper
Death lowers rage at least 1 stack

I think that's about it.

[Team Orchid]

Originally posted by 『Mr.Lucky 』:

Originally posted by Nythm & Slues:

Is Maynie really that OP or is she just someone like Starbo who is a pain to deal with, but doesn't win that much herself?

More like Alternative version of Sweet Eater imo

Stronger than c tomomo without her hyper, weaker that s tomomo with it. I say weaker due to her reduced star gain when beating things she hasn't marked. Doesn't matter how high your stats are when you only gain 20 stars for beating the guy with 80.

[Intra]

Originally posted by Team Orchid:

Originally posted by 『Mr.Lucky 』:

More like Alternative version of Sweet Eater imo

Stronger than c tomomo without her hyper, weaker that s tomomo with it. I say weaker due to her reduced star gain when beating things she hasn't marked. Doesn't matter how high your stats are when you only gain 20 stars for beating the guy with 80.

You guys don't seem to get how overpowered +9 attack is. My Maynie brings GENTLEMAN'S BATTLE to challenge FULL HP PLAYERS to instantly kill them across the map. Imagine having a card that instantly killed players and gave you 25% of their stars. That's Maynie + synergy!

[DrifT]

Originally posted by Intra:

You guys don't seem to get how overpowered +9 attack is. My Maynie brings GENTLEMAN'S BATTLE to challenge FULL HP PLAYERS to instantly kill them across the map. Imagine having a card that instantly killed players and gave you 25% of their stars. That's Maynie + synergy!

You have a point since Store Manager kills full HP people with his +3 ATK pretty often, but even that I feel it's more like your target doesn't even how to deal with Maynie. Losing to wild mobs (or someone else, if you don't want certain people to gain your stuff) is a basic game sense in OJ, if you can't deny your demise with environment damage.

It's not like you can get +9 ATK in every game, either.

[mkjioz]

Originally posted by スパイダー:

Originally posted by Intra:

You guys don't seem to get how overpowered +9 attack is. My Maynie brings GENTLEMAN'S BATTLE to challenge FULL HP PLAYERS to instantly kill them across the map. Imagine having a card that instantly killed players and gave you 25% of their stars. That's Maynie + synergy!

You have a point since Store Manager kills full HP people with his +3 ATK pretty often, but even that I feel it's more like your target doesn't even how to deal with Maynie. Losing to wild mobs (or someone else, if you don't want certain people to gain your stuff) is a basic game sense in OJ, if you can't deny your demise with environment damage.

It's not like you can get +9 ATK in every game, either.

From my experience, +5 to +8 is pretty easy and usually just as good. If you suicide your first life as quickly as possible, getting 4 rage in your first life is really easy. If you focus NPC panels and other players immediately, you lose nearly nothing since you don't even have 10 stars. By the time you revive you can usually norma and then you're ready to pop off at +5 minimum since it gives you an extra counter. Alternatively, you can choose to hold onto your rage counters and save them for when you fear death and play a normal tanking game until then.

Maynie forces a lot of equilibrium models where her target must choose to lose to force Maynie to lose her rage which in a lot of cases isn't a move they want to take and sometimes can't reasonably accomplish in a timely manner especially if they're a tank. Nor do the other two players have any guaranteed way to break the equilibrium where they're in a constantly losing position. Maynie is practically invincible due to her +evade, so their only option is to KO the actual target.

What I don't really understand is why Maynie also gets +evade. It doesn't really make sense to be an evasion God while raging. It essentially makes Maynie invincible and there's no risk to her whatsoever while in rage mode since she can only usually die to out of battle damage or specifically RAF and Serious Battle. Shield Counter will KO her, but doesn't actually make her lose anything.

There is no other character that can trivially get such a high evade stat in the game and it seems really weird to me the first to do so gets it on top of the strongest attack buff in the game. If anything, it would make sense to just remove the evasion buff so other players can get the drop on her potentially. Currently, they're about forced into dying if they come ahead of her from behind and are given the option of dying now or the turn afterwards.

She also tends to distort the game a bit by killing the boss near immediately if it shows up. And it tends to be in her favor to do so as it prevent her target from suiciding easily.

Currently, her strength is ameliorated by the fact Trick Or Treat mode is literally only about who normas the fastest, but even then I've hit 5+ rage consistently early into the game. In normal games which can last much longer on average, she's going to have far less trouble getting going by a time point that matters.

Also, there's been little to no discussion of Arnelle. Guess I'll make a thread about her in a bit.

[Lord Blackburn]

I frankly don't see her getting changed, she's pretty balanced imo.

[DrifT]

Originally posted by mkjioz:

*text wall*

Also:

Originally posted by mkjioz:

From my experience

Originally posted by mkjioz:

After playing 5ish games with both Arnelle and Maynie

Yeah, "5-game experience", "very persuasive".

[Meneluma]

Anyone tried Sink or Swim to try and counteract some of the star gain penalty, or Dark Side of Business to attack the stars directly?

[mkjioz]

Testing Sink or Swim in Single Player, it gave me 184 stars KOing a non-target with 492 stars which is about 37.5% rounded down which is the expected result of 0.5*0.5*1.5.

[『UPRPRC』Serene♪]

Did some more games and I have to thank her for lowering my overall win rate by 0.5%, still can't put my finger on her being too good or just meh, but I feel like every time I pick her, either me getting tons of rage but never get hyper to pop it ,or I just keep taking 2+ damage from everything, or my opponents are already in a huge lead when I pop it that killing them 3 times in one row isn't enough to set them back. And the only two games where I actually win are more like without even trying to abuse her hyper and passive.

But again, it's still fun to watch people trying to die to everything possible when she rages.

Originally posted by Captain Yorshka:

Anyone tried Sink or Swim to try and counteract some of the star gain penalty, or Dark Side of Business to attack the stars directly?

I already expected it to be 37.5% stars for killing a non-target player, I don't see why these 2 effects can't be stacked. And I assume Dark Side of Business definitely overrides her hyper since you steal stars instead of killing them.

[mariosonicman1]

Originally posted by UPRPRC Serene♪:

I already expected it to be 37.5% stars for killing a non-target player, I don't see why these 2 effects can't be stacked. And I assume Dark Side of Business definitely overrides her hyper since you steal stars instead of killing them.

if it overrides... that might be my que to try and get the darkside achivement, that one has been a pain for me for quite a while. thanks for mentioning it.

[Rаndo]

To me she mostly just seems kind of annoying sometimes if anything but not strong enough that I'd say "op".