Arena FPS is P2W. (Hot-Take Warning)

[Putrid Remains]

Fair warning, alot of people are not gonna like what I have to say, but what I will say is undeniably true. Games like Quake, Unreal Tournament, well any competetive shooter now a days, is Pay 2 Win and here's why:

60hz is plenty enough to play any single player game with no issues, even games like Serious Sam with hundreds of enemies being thrown at you with no lag or hit detection issues, however you will come to find any multiplayer game that is even remotely popular & has a competetive scene, you'll see that is not the case.

You are at a complete disadvantage, you'll find yourself dying from weapons way faster than should technically be possible, you'll find yourself aiming right at someone and yours doing way less than it is supposed to or not at all, etc.

To even be able to play at a level that most players play at, requires 144hz minimum & 240 if you actually want to ever win regularly. lol

Just a monitor of that high of hz even in 2024 of only 1080p alone is 175 bucks, take into consideration purchasing a gpu and cpu to play any games at that high of fps, and it gets extraordinarily expensive.

Competetive multiplayer is no longer about who has better aim or skill, it's more about who has better specs/can reach higher fps, even consoles are reaching this point, where owners of Xbox Ones are in a disadvantage over series x's.

I remember a time not too long ago, where everyone basically had the same or similiar specs, & comp multiplayer was fair, whether that be xbox one or the ps3/360 generation. Everyone was playing at the same hz, with the same frames.

Now unless you make your game look like complete ass & play at 30 billion fps, games are unplayable.

There is nothing wrong with wanting your game to run better, I get that, but there is no reason guns should do exponentially more damage that are hitscan for some then others, just because you have higher hz/fps.

and it's not just a connection thing, I've seen this across many games, with as low as 35 ping and it's not every person I play against, it's a select few, which is lead me to see the truth, I've also played some of these games with the worst graphics possible to see how it plays out with maximum frames, and it's like night and day. I'll be standing still and someone will start shooting me & then I'd start moving and be able to embarass players when I have lower health, just cuz I am simply harder to hit cuz of the framerate difference.

It's broken and there should be some way to fix it, otherwise, online shooters will never be fair and always will be pay 2 win. (Which is ironic, cuz yall say you hate modern games for the same reason.)

[Putrid Remains]

Escrito originalmente por Superslime64:

Escrito originalmente por DooMNukeM:

I wish I could delete posts this is such a Neanderthal take. I'm sorry guys.

I'm glade you came to your senses

I just have to accept that some people aren't meant for multiplayer games or to ever be good & I am one of them. I'm a fraud fan of Arena FPS, how can I claim to be a big fan and be worse than players with not even half the amount of hours as me in some cases. OH well. lol

[Superslime64]

Escrito originalmente por DooMNukeM:

Escrito originalmente por Superslime64:

I'm glade you came to your senses

I just have to accept that some people aren't meant for multiplayer games or to ever be good & I am one of them. I'm a fraud fan of Arena FPS, how can I claim to be a big fan and be worse than players with not even half the amount of hours as me in some cases. OH well. lol

That is not what I meant, I am saying that the claims you were making can be said about all multiplayer games. Also we gave you tips, I showed you the aim trainer I like to use to find a good sens, also arena shooters are all about resource management. When you spawn right away go for the best weapons and don't engage in fights not prepared. Also when low just run away and grab mini health and armor, its all about staying alive and remembering timings that's it. Also don't be hard on yourself its all about having fun and learning on our own pace

[Rywal]

Escrito originalmente por DooMNukeM:

Escrito originalmente por Superslime64:

I'm glade you came to your senses

I just have to accept that some people aren't meant for multiplayer games or to ever be good & I am one of them. I'm a fraud fan of Arena FPS, how can I claim to be a big fan and be worse than players with not even half the amount of hours as me in some cases. OH well. lol

Being a fan of something and being good at it are completely different things. Not all people who are skilled at Quake Live are superfans of the genre. They can easily have fun at something different and don't really make playing AFPS as much part of their identity.
To be a fan of something it's mostly a matter of knowing a lot about it or just liking it a lot... Just like someone could be the biggest sports fan and not even play or be good at the sport, same for movies and plenty of other interests really.

[Wehzy]

Escrito originalmente por DooMNukeM:

Escrito originalmente por Superslime64:

What!? Quake is the least pay to play game in the market right now. in overwatch 2 you have to pay for the heroes, valorant as well, league of legends, call of duty and star wars battlefront. And hell the points you are making would make those games even more pay to win for people who want to buy a 240hz monitor. Quake (unlike those games) is skill to win. Everyone start off equal and the only thing making other players better is experience. The more you play, the more you learn, which in turn allows you to win.

Pay 2 Win not pay to play

I think you dont understand what p2w means. 144hz screens are common these days and even on 60hz you can become good. I played CS on 60hz and on 800x600 back in 2014 and got to global.

P2w means buying ingame items to become better, which is NEVER the case in FPS.

[niko240p]

quake live has issues but good positioning and timing pickups will triumph aim any day.

[Babs]

I mostly agree with OP as you will have a -serious- advantage with a higher hertz monitor in this game. Because of the nature of Q3, you've got extremely fast bunny hopping and almost twitch-fps reaction needed. However, you can get 165hz monitors for $100 and even less on sale nowadays. With that having been said, from 2004 - 2016 or so, everything to get you above 60hz was extremely specialized and would easily cost more than the computer itself. They basically need to have a .cfg as part of the tutorial in the game because without that you're sunk ie with the extreme r_picmip values everyone has, you just CAN'T react as fast as someone with it. At the very least, if you get the monitor, you won't need anything else because Q3 is 25 years old and literally any gpu will be able to push the high frames.

[^4D347h]

This game isn't the same as q3 and it does require a bit more than a toaster to run well, but anything fairly modern can run it at 250 fps. if you dont slam 250 then its something in your config most likely.

[Putrid Remains]

Alot of my issues stem from my internet, I realize that now, I do fine in duels, but as soon as there is ffa with more than 4-6 players, weird stuff starts happening and anything above like 50 ping, starts to become unplayable, shots not registering, dying and taking damage from people who aren't even aiming at me. 1mb up, and 24 down. Not the game's fault, I know back in the day people played Quake 3 with 56k modems, but that isn't the case anymore, everyone has good internet or at least decent now, so either I just deal with it or play single player games until I can get upgrade.

[RunForRest]

I got TWO 1080p 180hz screens not so long ago on sale for 200€ + 9€ for a cable so i can use freesync with one of the screens. New PC 9 months ago for roughly 1k (5600x | 6700xt | 32GB DDR4 @3600 | 2x2TB NVMEs | 1TB SSD) and most games run with 100fps+. Still had a quality 800Watt powersupply + case. This is not that expensive and will last quite some years. This is not that worrying tbh.
MORE worrying is that PVP has more and more crossplay and console players get the advantage of VERY VERY aggressive autoaim help. THIS ruins PvP shooter gaming. And it will only get worse since the new generation dont even use controlers anymore - they learn "gaming" at a fcking mobile phone! And the market will adpat to that. Good bye fair and balanced and fun PvP. Its already a complete flustercuck, due to several reasons, but it will only get MUCH MUCH worse. Expensive hardware is the lest concern i would be worried about !
And games like Quake are unfortunately dead anyway. Quake live also killed it for me. Q3 i had the same server i played ctf on. With QL it became server switching after almost every match - THIS killed the game for me.
Dirty Bomb - brilliant game - could have been huge - but the devs killed it themselfs due to amateurish developement and not aggressively countering the Pay2win bs claims an oh-so-popular youtuber AngryJoe spewed around in one video.

The golden times of good, fast paced PvP shooters with excellent movement are over *sigh*

[Putrid Remains]

Escrito originalmente por RunForRest:

I got TWO 1080p 180hz screens not so long ago on sale for 200€ + 9€ for a cable so i can use freesync with one of the screens. New PC 9 months ago for roughly 1k (5600x | 6700xt | 32GB DDR4 @3600 | 2x2TB NVMEs | 1TB SSD) and most games run with 100fps+. Still had a quality 800Watt powersupply + case. This is not that expensive and will last quite some years. This is not that worrying tbh.
MORE worrying is that PVP has more and more crossplay and console players get the advantage of VERY VERY aggressive autoaim help. THIS ruins PvP shooter gaming. And it will only get worse since the new generation dont even use controlers anymore - they learn "gaming" at a fcking mobile phone! And the market will adpat to that. Good bye fair and balanced and fun PvP. Its already a complete flustercuck, due to several reasons, but it will only get MUCH MUCH worse. Expensive hardware is the lest concern i would be worried about !
And games like Quake are unfortunately dead anyway. Quake live also killed it for me. Q3 i had the same server i played ctf on. With QL it became server switching after almost every match - THIS killed the game for me.
Dirty Bomb - brilliant game - could have been huge - but the devs killed it themselfs due to amateurish developement and not aggressively countering the Pay2win bs claims an oh-so-popular youtuber AngryJoe spewed around in one video.

The golden times of good, fast paced PvP shooters with excellent movement are over *sigh*

Yea that's true, I never thought about it, but gaming was and always has been tied to nostalgia and environment. Most of these gamers now as kids grew up on tablets, hence why that's all they know, it's familiar to them, just like we grew up on doom, quake, duke, mortal kombat, street fighter, etc. I was never the biggest fan of dirty bomb, but it does suck what happened to that game, for me the game Loadout was a game I really liked Oh, and what happened to Unreal Tournament is a travesty. :(

[RunForRest]

Jea we r old dinosaurs dieing out ^^ Maybe humanlike AI bots can save those games

[GloomGenetics.]

Weakest Troll Bait ive ever seen in my life, Do better.

[Animalman]

i hear what u are saying

If Monitor Refresh rate is Faster for some, Then Gameloop updates can tick more readily if they are related to refresh rate.
Lets say
inbetween refresh rates the game logic loops a set number of time a Fixed Number of times.
If the refresh rate is faster, the game logic can loop more. So when you send it down the wire, you send more versions of data than the versions they receive. Like 8 bullets, while the opponent send 4.

I see the logic u are going on.

And i think there is something to it.
Casual player myself Developer aswell so i thats how i know what u are talking about.

But anyhow.

With idea's like that you should make your own games :P

[Putrid Remains]

Escrito originalmente por Animalman:

i hear what u are saying

If Monitor Refresh rate is Faster for some, Then Gameloop updates can tick more readily if they are related to refresh rate.
Lets say
inbetween refresh rates the game logic loops a set number of time a Fixed Number of times.
If the refresh rate is faster, the game logic can loop more. So when you send it down the wire, you send more versions of data than the versions they receive. Like 8 bullets, while the opponent send 4.

I see the logic u are going on.

And i think there is something to it.
Casual player myself Developer aswell so i thats how i know what u are talking about.

But anyhow.

With idea's like that you should make your own games :P

Nah, but I have decided to make the room I am in, into a more social and easygoing setting, gonna turn it into a game room of sorts and just invite friends over to game, splitscreen &/or lan is an underappreciated form of gaming, and if you think about it, is the fairest way to play any game, no hackers, no advantanges over other players, and nothing beats seeing people's reaction in real time to getting their butts kicked hehe. :3

[Putrid Remains]

Escrito originalmente por Animalman:

i hear what u are saying

If Monitor Refresh rate is Faster for some, Then Gameloop updates can tick more readily if they are related to refresh rate.
Lets say
inbetween refresh rates the game logic loops a set number of time a Fixed Number of times.
If the refresh rate is faster, the game logic can loop more. So when you send it down the wire, you send more versions of data than the versions they receive. Like 8 bullets, while the opponent send 4.

I see the logic u are going on.

And i think there is something to it.
Casual player myself Developer aswell so i thats how i know what u are talking about.

But anyhow.

With idea's like that you should make your own games :P

But yea I honestly see what you are getting at too, these kind of games should just do what fighting games do and have 1): Rollback Netcode & 2): Have a fps requirement to play online, both of these issues shouldn't even be but are, games like Apex, where the maps are way larger and have more going on don't have as bad of lag issues as these kind of games do. That is the only reason people don't like these kind of games, People like fast paced hard games, but nobody likes playing games where others have a clear advantage over them for no reason.