Why is this listed as indie?

[zzz]

Sorry but this spits in the face of true indie devs and raises the expected quality bar of true indie titles... 7+ developers listed as senior/lead, assumingly the entire team is 2-3 times that size.

This is not made by someone or a small group who just does things out of their spare time or with no financial backing. This is made by a studio who whether they like to admit it or not has funding and operates with decent financial backing.

Really frustrating to see this being marketed as an indie game and will not support it regardless of it's artistic merit.

I understand that perhaps it's intended to imply "not made by a traditional AAA studio" but then coin your own term for that, perhaps "mid-sized" or "new wave" or something...

Indie, this is not.

[TheVillain]

Do you even know what 'indie' means?
It does not have to be a team of under 10 people. It means independently published outside of mainstream means.

That is, a game not developed by a team and then published by a large firm such as EA or something.
Seeing as 11 bit have their own distribution means (Games Republic) and are sold through various non-publishing sites such as Humble, GoG and so on - It does actually fit the definition of 'indie'.

Indie, this is.
Your (incorrect) definition, it is not.

[darkstar/zx]

They Developed the game and published the game themselves. I would call that Indie but now-a-days it has so many meaninings.

[chris]

Indie does not necessarily mean one guy in a basement making 8 bit retro games.

[zzz]

Originally posted by Nokturnal:

Do you even know what 'indie' means?
It does not have to be a team of under 10 people. It means independently published outside of mainstream means.

That is, a game not developed by a team and then published by a large firm such as EA or something.
Seeing as 11 bit have their own distribution means (Games Republic) and are sold through various non-publishing sites such as Humble, GoG and so on - It does actually fit the definition of 'indie'.

Indie, this is.
Your (incorrect) definition, it is not.

No, indie != independent. Indie implies a certain culture and yes, im sorry, but it should imply less than 10 people...

If the term used was independent you're correct I wouldn't be complaining as technically you are correct it is independently published.

But the term indie isn't used for that typically. It implies small start up, no backing...

It's unfair for real "indie" games to be competing against such relatively behemoth sized teams.

[mojito pogito]

That is what you define to be "real indie". As far as im concerned, all indie is real indie.

[chris]

Making up your own definition for words and then being mad at people for not using it is pretty intense.

[TheVillain]

Look it up before you continue to foam at the mouth buddy.
The generally accepted definition (note - there is no clear definition, mostly as a result of hipsters like you who insist that they are right and 'society' is wrong, mannn) is a game published without a specific publisher or financial support.
They don't get pushed to do this/that by their publisher or financial backers - Which is the case here, they made the game they want. Which is plain to see as this game is clearly rather unique as seen by the sales it has gained.

Just because the graphics don't look like my 6yr old drew it, or is written by my 2yr old - Does not mean it's not 'indie'.
As previously stated, this merely does not fit YOUR idea of what indie is.

Spouting nonsense like 'This is made by a studio who whether they like to admit it or not has funding and operates with decent financial backing' just makes you look like a tinfoil wearing nutter.
Are you rummaging through their garbage and finding receipts to back up this statement? Or just wildly flinging accusations like a monkey throws excrement in a zoo?

If you want 'indie' to mean small team ONLY and ONLY a team with NO finances. Coin your own term.
Basement Dwelling Programmer perhaps.
Nothing against those 'teams' but if they create people like you then they are doing the industry a disservice.

You don't like it? Fine, don't support it. Don't expect people to agree with your half baked theories about their financial situation or your own opinion on what indie means.


EDIT - Oh, a Queenslander...Explains a bit. :P
Shame to see a fellow Aussie being so blind by the desire to be popular and hop on the 'indie' bandwagon, but not surprised.

[zzz]

Originally posted by chris:

Making up your own definition for words and then being mad at people for not using it is pretty intense.

How is it my own definition?

"Independent video games (commonly referred to as indie games) are video games created by individuals or small teams generally without video game publisher financial support."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indie_game

Expecting this thread to die now I've actually proved it's the common widespread understanding.

[zzz]

Originally posted by Nokturnal:

You don't like it? Fine, don't support it. Don't expect people to agree with your half baked theories about their financial situation or your own opinion on what indie means.

I don't expect people to agree...

And they're not "half baked theories" about their financial situation, they operate at a $60,000 net loss per quarter... ie, they have financial backing... Show me a true indie that can afford to operate at that loss and not be homeless.

[TheVillain]

Nope, I was hoping you'd look there.

"There is no exact widely accepted definition of what constitutes an "indie game"."
From your link.

"Typically, indie games are smaller than mainstream titles." - Check
" Indie game developers are generally not financially backed by video game publishers " - Check
"Being independent, indie developers do not have controlling interests" - Check
"or creative limitations" - Check
"and do not require publisher approval" - Check
"Design decisions are thus also not limited by the allocated budget" - Check
"Furthermore, smaller team sizes increase individual involvement" - Check, which is why you think there are 7 people 'running' the whole show. Just for this title man..
"Small teams, scope, and no creative restrictions have made indie games known for innovation, creativity, and artistic experimentation." - Check

Shall we continue this or can we finally agree that opinions may differ?

[chris]

OMG you mean they have employees and pay them and formed a limited liability corporation without the help of their moms?

Take a deep breath. Your definition of indie is not THE definition of indie. I know you are finding this hard to grasp ... so the deep breath is important.

Double Fine Productions is considered by many to be an indie developer. Deep breath. Open up your mind. Relax. Let your definition of indie expand. Yessssssssss! :D

Like many things in life, perspective matters and things are relative. To one guy in his basement ... 11 bit is a huge studio. Compared to CD Projekt (where a lot of the 11 bit guys came from before) they are now a very tiny studio. And most importantly ... they do not have a publisher. Making them an independant developer ;D

[chris]

Is it fair to assume the anger comes from ignorant gamers who will now expect all indie games to be as well developed as this one? Are your friends asking why your indie game isn't as cool as this? Because gamers being ignorant is not new and isn't going to go away any time soon.

[CatraGirl]

Originally posted by chris:

Making up your own definition for words and then being mad at people for not using it is pretty intense.

+1 this so much...

Originally posted by Nokturnal:

Nope, I was hoping you'd look there.

"There is no exact widely accepted definition of what constitutes an "indie game"."
From your link.

"Typically, indie games are smaller than mainstream titles." - Check
" Indie game developers are generally not financially backed by video game publishers " - Check
"Being independent, indie developers do not have controlling interests" - Check
"or creative limitations" - Check
"and do not require publisher approval" - Check
"Design decisions are thus also not limited by the allocated budget" - Check
"Furthermore, smaller team sizes increase individual involvement" - Check, which is why you think there are 7 people 'running' the whole show. Just for this title man..
"Small teams, scope, and no creative restrictions have made indie games known for innovation, creativity, and artistic experimentation." - Check

Shall we continue this or can we finally agree that opinions may differ?

ouch, facts, the natural enemy of hipsters like OP...

Originally posted by chris:

Compared to CD Projekt (where a lot of the 11 bit guys came from before)

I did not know that, explains why I like this game so much... CD Projekt ftw <3

[TheVillain]

Originally posted by skip:

Originally posted by Nokturnal:

And they're not "half baked theories" about their financial situation, they operate at a $60,000 net loss per quarter... ie, they have financial backing... Show me a true indie that can afford to operate at that loss and not be homeless.

Read your own evidence again. There is no 'true indie' outside of your imagination.
Their financial status has NO impact whatsoever.
Regardless, what makes you think they have backing? You do realise they had a number of relatively succesful 'indie' games before this, right? Games that are (or appear to be) cheaply made and released on practically every platform.

"Most indie games do not make significant profit"

Is this the bit you are hanging on to?
So your theory is, if they are a success and make a profit they're not indie anymore? Someone contact Notch, he's not 'indie'.
Oh and all the other guys who got fame based purely on the fact they were 'indie' - Because they're not anymore now, skip says so.
What if they start off as 'indie' and grow the team following past profits? No longer 'indie'?
Do they have to contact you for approval? Where's your application link? Or is that too mainstream? Can I send a carrier pigeon?


This is an utterly pointless discussion. Hipsters won't have their opinions changed and I am looking like a crazy fanboy by arguing when in reality I just hate people forcing their own definition of things onto others. (No, I'm not doing the same, I'm wanting you to drop the attempt to define what the world decided is not clearly defined..)

Oh and what Chris said +1. :P

[zzz]

I just want to say that I'm not trying to change anyones opinion on what indie is, I'm more so having that imparted against me...

I was just asking a simple question, and stating my lack of interest on the title based on its marketing with (imo) is incorrect. I tried to support my position, but are just getting verbally insulted instead so whatever...

GJ guys...