Undead, ♥♥♥♥.

[Winter Solus]

Before you read, just know that I don't have the undead DLC. This is my experience strictly when facing the undead. I generally have an over 1000% enemy KOs to ally KOs.

As far as I can tell, they are damage-wise about as capable as any other warband. It looks like they have a few less strategy points, but what's that matter when you are toe-to-toe with the whole warband.

What gets me is that they are all unwavering (for those not aware, all the undead are immune to all alone, fear, and terror), AND The Vampire (Undead leader) and Vamipre Thralls (a hero) cause terror. It's so extremely difficult to deal with, it's outrageous. They have those little white guys who's name I forget, and if they touch you, you get a disease carrier debuff (-3% dodge and parry chance). Their basic henchman, the zombies, are dispensable. This means their death has no effect on enemy morale.

This mixture makes them so extremely hard it's rediculous. To my understanding, the tactic to beat them would be to focus on the leader and heroes, but if that leader gets fighting somewhere where you can only have 1 or 2 guys on him at a time, such as in a doorway or a fence hole, forget it.

Idk what you'd do to nerf them, but I do genuinely feel they could use a nerf. I'm not saying this in rage after a big defeat, I'm saying this as having fought some hundreds of battles, and finding the Undead to continuous be by far the hardest enemy I encounter.

Most of my losses, I can understand where my judgment was poor, or what I could have possibly done better. However, there are many battles against the Undead where I really truly don't know what I could have done differently for better results.

[Penny Royal]

I defeat Undead WB's every time I come across one. Figure out a better strategy to deal with them, is my advice. I'll start you off with a hint: Make sure the Leader is the first to die.

I'm not trying to sound superior, BTW. It's just that I can fully understand why a band of Undead creatures would be so terrifying and difficult to defeat.

[kingts]

If your a new warband. Getting some anti fear pendants helps. You also have pray at your cart that increases your alone success rate. It also depends which scenario your talking about. Wide arc , u can focus on stones early get back. Use your Rangers to hurt them from a distance, swarm w hero's and nuetralize them quickly. Henchmen are easily paralyzed w fear if u don't prepare and it will get worse at level 10. Don't pick a scatter mission ever and his impressive always charges. Never deal w him low level minions. Again dealing w the undead gets easier as you get stronger, but having low anti fear or alone henchmen. Your asking for trouble.

[Darth Cannabis]

The Thrall does Fear not Terror. Fear doesn't cripple your offensive and strategy points like Terror does. I prefer Fear over Terror anyday, so your definately blowing things out of porportion there. The Leader is the only one besides the impressive that has Terror, and well that is normal for Impressives, most impressives have it. While this can be troublesome early, its not foolproof. Other units in otherbands have Terror immunity (for example, darksouls for chaos), others simply can reach high enough leadership to laugh at it (merc captain can get 90%), or use certain enchants. By the time your semi built, it should be a non issue anymore.

The hint I have to give, is to take advantage of how poorly, the AI uses synergy of its units. You were right on the edge of it with zombie. They are slow unless buffed by necro, and AI simply does not do this right. So stay WAYYYY back. Let the heroes separate from the slow meatshields. If they brought ghouls, then you don;t have to worry about the no morale loss factor. You basically want 2 to 3 turns worth of separation between heroes and zoms, before making 1st contact.

Also keep in mind, that while not completely rangeless, they are extremely limitted in range combat as a warband. Only some of the heroes on undead can use any ranged weapons, and even those options are limitted. Using your ranged combat on undead heroes, after letting them separate from zoms should give pretty easy wins. Gonna do another post with per warband ideas against undead.

[Darth Cannabis]

For chaos, use your darksouls. They are immune to terror, which makes them perfect canidates to tie up Vampire Leader, while your brethen shoot it with bows.

For Mercs, take advantage of the fact that everyone can use blackpowder. Pistols, handguns, rifles, just set a firing line and outrange them.

For skaven, same idea, but with shurikens and pistols. Use your climb ability, and ambush from rooftops and balconies with ranged weapons.

For witchunters, same idea again. Use your rangeds units, and tie up the leader with flagellents and possibly your templar, while your witchhunters and zealot shoot it.

For Sisters, you may have soem more problem, but remember that they start with decently high leadership and morale. They have best odds of naturally resisting terror to start, but being forced into the close combat is a disadvantage. Luckily your often strong enough in melee, and have enough hammers and flails to actually power thru zombies. A matriarch or superior with high leadership is gonna be best bet thou on vamp leader.

and well for undead, your on a level playing field. It is actually the hardest because, they will have imunities to a lot of your skills. A bunch of zoms that weaken with death stench, are just a bunch of normal zoms to another undead band.

[Leinadnesredna]

Originally posted by VGP Winter~Drift:

Before you read, just know that I don't have the undead DLC. This is my experience strictly when facing the undead. I generally have an over 1000% enemy KOs to ally KOs.

As far as I can tell, they are damage-wise about as capable as any other warband. It looks like they have a few less strategy points, but what's that matter when you are toe-to-toe with the whole warband.

What gets me is that they are all unwavering (for those not aware, all the undead are immune to all alone, fear, and terror), AND The Vampire (Undead leader) and Vamipre Thralls (a hero) cause terror. It's so extremely difficult to deal with, it's outrageous. They have those little white guys who's name I forget, and if they touch you, you get a disease carrier debuff (-3% dodge and parry chance). Their basic henchman, the zombies, are dispensable. This means their death has no effect on enemy morale.

This mixture makes them so extremely hard it's rediculous. To my understanding, the tactic to beat them would be to focus on the leader and heroes, but if that leader gets fighting somewhere where you can only have 1 or 2 guys on him at a time, such as in a doorway or a fence hole, forget it.

Idk what you'd do to nerf them, but I do genuinely feel they could use a nerf. I'm not saying this in rage after a big defeat, I'm saying this as having fought some hundreds of battles, and finding the Undead to continuous be by far the hardest enemy I encounter.

Most of my losses, I can understand where my judgment was poor, or what I could have possibly done better. However, there are many battles against the Undead where I really truly don't know what I could have done differently for better results.

What warband´s are you playing ?

i´m asking because i do belive their Terror earligame is Overpowered i find that (i´m playing sisters atm) when i encounter Undead they just give me their loot and then kill themselfs letting me earn yet another crushing victory where to me Chaos is where i need to play way more causious.

I would expect say chaos doing less good versus undead late game caused by there low leadership on their heroes so that will be my next project.

EDIT: a poison focused skaven warband might also be in trouble versus undead

[Darth Cannabis]

Originally posted by Leinadnesredna:

Originally posted by VGP Winter~Drift:

Before you read, just know that I don't have the undead DLC. This is my experience strictly when facing the undead. I generally have an over 1000% enemy KOs to ally KOs.

As far as I can tell, they are damage-wise about as capable as any other warband. It looks like they have a few less strategy points, but what's that matter when you are toe-to-toe with the whole warband.

What gets me is that they are all unwavering (for those not aware, all the undead are immune to all alone, fear, and terror), AND The Vampire (Undead leader) and Vamipre Thralls (a hero) cause terror. It's so extremely difficult to deal with, it's outrageous. They have those little white guys who's name I forget, and if they touch you, you get a disease carrier debuff (-3% dodge and parry chance). Their basic henchman, the zombies, are dispensable. This means their death has no effect on enemy morale.

This mixture makes them so extremely hard it's rediculous. To my understanding, the tactic to beat them would be to focus on the leader and heroes, but if that leader gets fighting somewhere where you can only have 1 or 2 guys on him at a time, such as in a doorway or a fence hole, forget it.

Idk what you'd do to nerf them, but I do genuinely feel they could use a nerf. I'm not saying this in rage after a big defeat, I'm saying this as having fought some hundreds of battles, and finding the Undead to continuous be by far the hardest enemy I encounter.

Most of my losses, I can understand where my judgment was poor, or what I could have possibly done better. However, there are many battles against the Undead where I really truly don't know what I could have done differently for better results.

What warband´s are you playing ?

i´m asking because i do belive their Terror earligame is Overpowered i find that (i´m playing sisters atm) when i encounter Undead they just give me their loot and then kill themselfs letting me earn yet another crushing victory where to me Chaos is where i need to play way more causious.

I would expect say chaos doing less good versus undead late game caused by there low leadership on their heroes so that will be my next project.

But low leadership is a non issue for chaos units. Being crazed in the Darksoul's case, is an natural immnity to Terror, Fear and All Alone. Daemon Eyes can give any mutated the all alone immunity. Pocessed are unwavering, which give immunity to Fear, Terror, and All alone. Undead's fear and terror are largely nonfactors to begin with, before you even think about leadership with chaos.

[Darth Cannabis]

Ah yes poison based skaven would have problem. Largely same problem as disease and poison based undead. Immunity.

[Silverquick]

Well its hard for me to judge because I too almost got destroyed by Undead back when my WB was all level 0 guys on my third mission.... BUT....

I was doing Brutal level battles even back then without realizing it, I was just taking the Wagon deployments because everyone said that was the safest way to go.

But the Vampire Lord was literally able to one shot my Youngblood with a Polearm so... (mind you this was on Brutal)...

I never lost to them... but early on they could really suck to fight against... but by higher levels, regardless of whether it was a Brutal level encounter or not, they were pretty easy.

[kingts]

Ok for new players great guides here
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=463157178
Yes terror not fear. some tactics, once enganged 1. Charge. Reduced OP hurts none when the OP has already been used to Charge. The Undead units do not survive the damage from multiple Charge from your other units. Focus helps those charges succeed. 2. Keep a safe distance. They come in one at a time and usually their leader as mentioned is first. So focus your range on him prior to engaging you. 3. Terror will not last long, so eventually you will turn it into a street fight. Again do WIde arc missions at all times, no matter the type. You should be supplying stones, getting items. Outside the Scav u can get to it quickly with your scouts or let them collect the stones and bring them to u. Set up your rangers, and shoot the dead from a distance. By the time they get to you at half strength your collective band should group attack w charges to counter terror. If u bring an impressive the dead always gets to your band. Very rarely is it stuck so make sure your range do damage prior to his arrival and have yoru impressive engaged with his. Never use your heros or henchmen in group attacks if your low levels. Even at 10 tough to deal with. Hope that helps

[Leinadnesredna]

Originally posted by Darth Cannabis:

Originally posted by Leinadnesredna:

What warband´s are you playing ?

i´m asking because i do belive their Terror earligame is Overpowered i find that (i´m playing sisters atm) when i encounter Undead they just give me their loot and then kill themselfs letting me earn yet another crushing victory where to me Chaos is where i need to play way more causious.

I would expect say chaos doing less good versus undead late game caused by there low leadership on their heroes so that will be my next project.

But low leadership is a non issue for chaos units. Being crazed in the Darksoul's case, is an natural immnity to Terror, Fear and All Alone. Daemon Eyes can give any mutated the all alone immunity. Pocessed are unwavering, which give immunity to Fear, Terror, and All alone. Undead's fear and terror are largely nonfactors to begin with, before you even think about leadership with chaos.

True about the Darksouls but the Possesed hero is the only one immune to fear/terror, the Marauder is only immune to all alone.

anyway it was just a speculation i have not tried this yet.

[dudeworthington]

Originally posted by VGP Winter~Drift:

Idk what you'd do to nerf them, but I do genuinely feel they could use a nerf. I'm not saying this in rage after a big defeat, I'm saying this as having fought some hundreds of battles, and finding the Undead to continuous be by far the hardest enemy I encounter.

During the early to mid stages of the game when I still getting my warband off the ground if I was fighting undead I would find a good fortified position, take it, hold it, and have marksmen shooting from the upper floors while setting up favorable 2 to 1 or 3 to 1 engagements at the choke points. This often means ignoring loot and forgoing the optional objective but whatever, you still get some XP and some loot when you win.

My guys are now higher level and also have purple helmets of courage so fighting undead is no big deal.

[Warlord]

My suggestion: Play the tutorials.

[Your Mom's Oshi]

Originally posted by Warlord:

My suggestion: Play the tutorials.

Ya beat me to it.

[Leinadnesredna]

Originally posted by Warlord:

My suggestion: Play the tutorials.

while this a good suggestion the tutorial don´t give much help on how to play against undead and it seem like he have no trouble playing against other warbands.

[chaosguy]

There's some good advice above, but there's an even simpler approach vs Ai Undead. Let them come to you. That vampire is super fast. Those zombies are super slow (in terms of movement, their intiative is wacked even if these are supposed to be "fast zombies"). But I think you get my point. If you draw a line in the sand close to your start point, a couple of turns later their leader will either show up alone as his short range troops mostly struggle to catch up, or possibly show up with the Dreg in tow. And the Dreg neither causes nor is immune to Fear/Terror.