Hypergates

[je bent een appel]

This may sound strange, but I think that Hypergates may have influenced the feeling of "shallowness" some reviewers spoke about.
In Star Control 2, there also was a fast-travel option - Portal Spawner, which allowed you to go to Quasispace at any time and then emerge in some pre-determined locations. But during the hyperspace/quasispace transitions, you still flew your ship.
In Origins, this works differently. You enter a dialogue, view sector map, then emerge in another dialogue. Given how close the starbases are to most interactable planets, towards the endgame it looks more like running to some kind of a space elevator, talking to a doorman, then talking to another doorman and then moving around a bit outside that "elevator" before talking to a doorman again, than space exploration.
I understand that this is a conscious design decision geared for modern expectations, but still, this takes a bit of "ship-flying experience" away.

[Xenial Jesse]

I second your last sentence there.
I really liked the "long journey" feeling of big hyperspace trips in SC2; it felt more meaningful. The particular recipe of autopilot-yet-still-in-danger floated my boat.I want to acknowledge my own bias here, but I do I know I consciously liked the long journeys decades ago.

There were 2 bits that really did bother me about the hypergates:
* Map click go wait stop E click click map click warp click map click go.
* Nothing compensated for the big Quasispace twist of SC2. Obviously SC:O couldn't just bust out Quasispace again without it looking a bit stale, so when I encountered the hypergates it felt like it made sense. They a) still wanted a way to skip across the map, b) couldn't copy the Quasispace surprise so didn't try, and therefore c) must have some other big game-changer in store. That's the 2nd bit I'm trying to say here; there wasn't some other substitution game-changer of similar scale.


To end on a positive note, being Australian, the starbase accents were fun for me.

[Schism Navigator]

Thank you for the feedback. We kept adjusting the starbases and gates. But there has not really been much feedback on how they feel to some players.

[je bent een appel]

Originally posted by Schism Navigator:

Thank you for the feedback. We kept adjusting the starbases and gates. But there has not really been much feedback on how they feel to some players.

I almost expect some event in a further update that will make Hypergates unavailable, and the Vindicator would gain access to perpendicuspace or something to obtain another form of fast travel.

[neuralnetwork]

I did like the starbases a lot.

Dialogue was EXCEPTION_POSITIVEADJECTIVENOTFOUND. Fun facts always seemed to give cryptic hints or just red herrings. Great touch. Honestly the starbase chats were among the most enjoyable of them all. Top notch quality.

Teleporting around the sector was a good thing in my books. I remember the old days but heck, you need not to look further back than the days of Skyrim.
While you could walk around in that game world, how many really did, all the time? It might be fun to begin with but it'll get old so fast travel is a welcome addition.

It's a touch late now, but another option you could've taken would've been a bigger fuel tank and starbase portals unlocked as a later stage bonus thing.
Bigger fuel so you could actually go somewhere without being constantly bombarded by fan fiction and the unlock thing so you'd first enjoy the scenery, later use the luxury.

All in all, even though it does steal some feeling of adventure and travel away from the galaxy, it's better this way. It really is a modern thing, people expect to have stuff like that.

Hey, a DLC event idea. Double the tanks, disable starbases. Time to investigate the malfunction!

Edit: Wow.

Originally posted by MeasuredSpectre:

I almost expect some event in a further update that will make Hypergates unavailable

You posted this while I was still writing mine. Great minds think alike.

Devssss. Make it happen.

[Ceejay]

Yep, I have to say I have no real issues with the hypergates, I always just saw them as a slightly faster alternative to quassi space.

The only downside I can think of is that I would have liked a couple more in the game to make exploring a tiny bit easier even if you got no new tech, but its a minor thing point that does not really need addressing.

The only issue I have with the starbases is, occasionally when you spawn in enemy territory you get jumped on and cannot do anything about it, you finish the fight and get jumped on again.

At least SC2 has the escape warp so you could leave a fight at the expense of some fuel. With this you simply have to hope you survive. I did get into a small loop at one point where I jumped in, had about 5 battles, had to go back to earth for more people, jumped back again, got attacked, had to go back to earth to get more people etc.

[desaix]

Every time there is a fast travel mechanic, there seem to be some old-school gamers who complain the hell out of it. Most people LIKE fast travel mechanics, however, and it's right useful in a game like this. Disabling it would be horrible, tantamount to removing the star dimming -- a couple people complain, so remove a feature the vast majority of game players rely on.

[neuralnetwork]

Originally posted by desaix:

Every time there is a fast travel mechanic, there seem to be some old-school gamers who complain the hell out of it. Most people LIKE fast travel mechanics, however, and it's right useful in a game like this. Disabling it would be horrible, tantamount to removing the star dimming -- a couple people complain, so remove a feature the vast majority of game players rely on.

I wouldn't disable it completely.

Just as an event. You fly around and some random space thing happens and bases go offline but you could fix it too.

It could be even a rather small quest, like check a couple of places, talk to a new alien and do some boss fight and you're done. Not necessarily some massive twenty hours project of grinding through Hyperspace.

Overall the current setup is fine I'd say. Don't fix what ain't broken. I just want that event!

[Xenial Jesse]

I don't think one person has denounced the what of fast travel. It's the how this thread has discussed. Starcon 2 did two great things with it by 1) making it an unexpected mid-game reward, giving it the build-up space to be a big fun deal to the player, and 2) making it still something you actually play. Uncharted portals with random destinations to discover (or worry about), a new race with significant story impact, new fuel implications... these were all added play mechanics.

Personally I'd try to think up a way SC:O could have done / could do both.


Someone mentioned fuel. Yeah the fuel management seems off in Origins because it's easy to see I'm not the only one who used the Tywom as a utility, not an exception. A game shouldn't make it preferable to subvert its own structure. But I think that problem isn't as simple as bigger fuel tanks... there are a bunch of factors involved.

(On this note, the fan fiction was a missed opportunity. For not a whole lot more budget they could have put 100 different pieces in there; distributed / interlaced semi-randomly, dragging out, making crazy foreshadowing references in the form of fanfic that the player can't recognise for ages, and just basically intriguing the player to no end by this seemingly endless fountain of slop from the Tywom.)

[Schism Navigator]

Originally posted by desaix:

Every time there is a fast travel mechanic, there seem to be some old-school gamers who complain the hell out of it. Most people LIKE fast travel mechanics, however, and it's right useful in a game like this. Disabling it would be horrible, tantamount to removing the star dimming -- a couple people complain, so remove a feature the vast majority of game players rely on.

We are NOT disabling fast travel.

[Duke Blitzein]

Finding a new Hypergate is a big find.Score! This is the feeling that the hypergates gave me. Woo Hoo. Found you!

[je bent een appel]

I surely wasn't asking to remove fast travel :)

[William Shakesman]

I liked the fast travel system as is. It was always fun to find one after taking a chance on a one-way trip.

[Final Plecostomus]

Originally posted by neuralnetwork:

I did like the starbases a lot.

Hey, a DLC event idea. Double the tanks, disable starbases. Time to investigate the malfunction!

Cause of malfucntion:

The bill for hyperspace gate usage is currently past due. Your current balance is (insert RU cost 10x greater than total sum of resources in game). In order to reactivate stabase gate functionality, please remit at least (staggeringly and impossibly high number of RUs) to this automated service agent promptly. If you are currently unable to make payments at this time, please contact our credit service promptly to work out a payment plan that fits your budget. Thank you for using the ERROR_NAME_NOT_FOUND Hyperspace Transit System.

[je bent een appel]

Originally posted by Final Plecostomus:

Originally posted by neuralnetwork:

I did like the starbases a lot.

Hey, a DLC event idea. Double the tanks, disable starbases. Time to investigate the malfunction!

Cause of malfucntion:

The bill for hyperspace gate usage is currently past due. Your current balance is (insert RU cost 10x greater than total sum of resources in game). In order to reactivate stabase gate functionality, please remit at least (staggeringly and impossibly high number of RUs) to this automated service agent promptly. If you are currently unable to make payments at this time, please contact our credit service promptly to work out a payment plan that fits your budget. Thank you for using the ERROR_NAME_NOT_FOUND Hyperspace Transit System.

And, of course, the credit company is located on Brantisvogon.

[dinner time]

Quasi-space was pretty neat, but it was essentially scaled-up hyperspace.
A more recent and commonly understood sci-fi trope (in shows and games) is the jump/stargate/wormhole/spacefold for point-to-point "teleportation" between points-of-interest. However, these are typically shown in sci-fi with two predetermined endpoints (if stable), often with the other side a mystery.

One thing they could do here--for those who want more exploration--is introduce such mystery wormholes, where you wouldn't know where you'll exit. (Yes, not a totally fresh idea, and quasi-space kind of did that without the restriction.) Then it'd be up to them if they wanted to add additional complexity beyond the quest/chore of "mapping them out" with things such as: causing damage to your navigational systems for a while so you wouldn't immediately know where you exited, or making them periodically unstable so they'd be even more difficult to map out. Making the instability completely random would be frustrating, but having them shift around some cyclic pattern might intrigue some folks. Perhaps make some exit points bonus areas you couldn't get to (nor get out of) via standard hyperspace. Thrusting the player into a totally different galaxy (or dimension with different mathematical constants) might be amazing, but that'd pretty much be an entirely new game! ...one of a "long journey home"... ughhh. Not sure if that's better or worse than "travel to the center of the galaxy... because why not?" (Because super-massive black holes kind of hurt! That's why not!)