Is Long War of the Chosen currently worth playing over vanilla Long War?

[Jackass]

Hi, I'm about to wrap up my first WOTC playthrough and I've been reading about LW2. I vastly prefer WOTC to the vanilla game so I was going to install LWOTC until I read some YouTube comments saying it's currently a buggy mess. Can anyone verify this?

[TwinuX]

LWOTC, like LW2, heavily modify a lot of the game. I cannot stress enough how much this can impact compatibility with other mods, even in seemingly unrelated ways. A lot of players having issues with LWOTC are trying to run it in addition to their current mod setup, which causes many issues. Do not attempt to run LWOTC with any mods not specified during the install process, and at the very least it'll be far easier to diagnose if something goes wrong.

Apart from this, LWOTC is very stable as of the most recent build, Dev 24.1. There are still some minor bugs to be ironed out, like model swaps not always applying correctly or the Chosen Warlock trying to buff resistance relays (it's as bizarre as it sounds), but the core LW2 changes are, for the most part, even more stable than they were in LW2 itself.

It's entirely possible to complete the game, and the mod is mostly balanced, although further tuning will come.

The most recent LWOTC dev builds, as well as advice/troubleshooting help can be found on the development discord, here; https://discord.gg/2e6rNQf

[Pryda4ever]

Fully campaign LWOTC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w27xSVKV95Q&list=PLtdFbHeD9CNxqzVYZuB_El2WPvKi8GiZx

[wortkarg]

Originally posted by Pryda4ever:

Fully campaign LWOTC

DerAva has a completed LWOTC campaign too (from 2020).

[Earl of Doncaster]

I was having crashes-a-go-go until I figured always run the game via the AML and not the built in mod manager. Nary a crash since.

[Kurnn]

So it works?

I was looking for exacly this! Now how the hell do I get it and install it =)

[TheSuit]

Originally posted by Kurnn:

So it works?

I was looking for exacly this! Now how the hell do I get it and install it =)

https://github.com/long-war-2/lwotc/wiki/Installing-Long-War-of-the-Chosen

Read the instructions carefully there are a lot of them.

[TheSuit]

Originally posted by Pryda4ever:

Fully campaign LWOTC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w27xSVKV95Q&list=PLtdFbHeD9CNxqzVYZuB_El2WPvKi8GiZx

Saw the video seems like its pretty buggy,
Overwatch seems pretty broken when 3 guys shoot a dead body.

[TwinuX]

XCOM doesn't always play overwatch attack animations in the correct order, so often the first attack will 'kill' the unit, when it only wounded it, and follow-up attacks will shoot at the unit's corpse. Often, the first attack to be played wasn't even the first overwatch shot actually calculated.

It's an entirely visual bug, and doesn't result in wasted OW shots, even if it appears so. It's pretty much irrelevant gameplay-wise.

[Sabaithal]

LW2 and LWOTC are different beasts. Some might be under the impression that LWOTC is just LW2 with more content, this is not the case. LWOTC has certain systems in place that LW2 lacks due to the whole WOTC thing, and LW2 is calibrated more to work better with the systems it has.

Its also come to my attention that the mechanics involved are balanced quite a bit differently. For example in LW2 technicals can equip other heavy weapons aside from extra rockets and napalm tank extenders, but in LWOTC they cannot. LWOTC also implements a fatigue system which is not necessary in LW2 due to how resource gains are balanced out.

And of course LWOTC has certain mission types from WOTC that LW2 lacks, as well as the classes and new enemies.

There's also the fact that LW2 is considered a finished product at 1.5 made by Pavonis (who were contracted by 2k to make it for this game). LWOTC on the other hand is made by fans, and is still considered in beta last I checked, and it does have bugs and other issues.

And there are also different versions of LW2 with different mechanics and/or balance in mind such as Long War toolbox and Long War 2 Overhaul. The latter of which already comes with most addons to LW2 classic.

[Mrvecz]

LWOTC will eventually reach the same state as the old one, where it will be prepared for existing mechanics instead of just having them plucked in cuz its WOTC.

So at some point, from gameplay view, yes, LWOTC is just LW2 with more content, different balancing, thanks to integration of WOTC content.

Fatigue system was implemented to curb down A-team build up, but i found fatique to be bordeline irrelevant for few reasons
1) Its tied to time spent in mission, majority of missions in the game rush you forward, either with instant failure timer or soft timer where the game tries to drown you in reinforcements.
2) Missions that let you slow down are not gona be slow either, due to how yellow alert works, enemies will beeline towards you eventually due to sounds or just chain activate as they follow up the screams of their comrades that just walked in to 8 man overwatch. Most troop collum ambushes end within 12-14 turns max

The only mission where it can take you longer is HQ assault, but that is a super rare mission you wont do many times.

Unless you are using cheese i guess like one shinobi and rest are snipers.

They also changed how will works, all soldiers have lesser will so they are much more vulnerable to mind control, but they also added two new, non-WOTC features

1) You can stock strike mind controled troops, stunning them and preventing them to running in the open and then getting massacred by the enemy.
2) Stun status effect from Lancers, Chosen or Berserkers can be recovered by anyone, Medic Specialists are no longer needed. Only 2 AP and your soldiers can recover from a hard CC.

How extra abilities work also changed from LW2, instead of having a structure that takes the soldier out of combat and pumps him with RNG skills, you use AP instead. You get AP for doing hard missions and defeating Chosen and on promotion, or through Covert Ops.
And also on promotion, numbers are dependant on soldiers inteligence.

Pistol and XCOM skills are accessible, irrelevant to rank, you can buy a fan fire on corporal if you want, pistols are still underwhelming and they are even trashier because they are now competing with XCOM skills that can be just plain out better.

Thats one thing i dont like that pistols have to compete with XCOM skills for AP investment and they just dont hold up.

And XCOM skills range from really weird ability combos, to god tier damage boosts (+4 weapon damage for Rangers and Gunners ?), free grenades and combo skills or skills the class didnt have (Like bladestorm/Fence for gunners, turning them in to pseudo shinobi that can rip through near-dead enemies or sectoids).

[wortkarg]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

For example in LW2 technicals can equip other heavy weapons aside from extra rockets and napalm tank extenders, but in LWOTC they cannot.

We've had this discussion before, and again, technicals can't equip other heavy weapons in LW2. Ufopedia:
Technicals cannot make use of the second even when wearing a Heavy suit, but they can carry extra ammo for their Gauntlet weapons
I asked on LWOTC discord and they confirmed this, so it's not possible without mods or ini files modification.

[Mrvecz]

Originally posted by wortkarg:

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

For example in LW2 technicals can equip other heavy weapons aside from extra rockets and napalm tank extenders, but in LWOTC they cannot.

We've had this discussion before, and again, technicals can't equip other heavy weapons in LW2. Ufopedia:
Technicals cannot make use of the second even when wearing a Heavy suit, but they can carry extra ammo for their Gauntlet weapons
I asked on LWOTC discord and they confirmed this, so it's not possible without mods or ini files modification.

And i thought i was losing my mind.
It is also maybe because who would use anything but extra ammo for the weapons the entire class is based around ?.

[Sabaithal]

Originally posted by wortkarg:

We've had this discussion before, and again, technicals can't equip other heavy weapons in LW2. Ufopedia:
Technicals cannot make use of the second even when wearing a Heavy suit, but they can carry extra ammo for their Gauntlet weapons
I asked on LWOTC discord and they confirmed this, so it's not possible without mods or ini files modification.

Yep, and you're still factually wrong. I don't care what you CLAIM the people on discord said for one simple reason:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2432588990
And please don't embarrass yourself again by claiming I modded the ini files, because I didn't. Just accept that you got one small detail wrong and/or are using a different version, its not that big of a deal.

[wortkarg]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

And please don't embarrass yourself again by claiming I modded the ini files, because I didn't. Just accept that you got one small detail wrong and/or are using a different version, its not that big of a deal.

Remove all mods, reset the ini files, start a new campaign and you will see, that you are wrong. You are the only person in the world who says that technicals can carry other heavy weapons. Ufopedia says the opposite, all players say the opposite, but you keep insisting. If you really didn't change the ini files, the only explanation is that one of the mods changes it (intentionally or not). There are no other LW2 versions, only the last version (1.5) that everyone has been using for years.

[Sabaithal]

Originally posted by wortkarg:

Remove all mods, reset the ini files, start a new campaign and you will see, that you are wrong. You are the only person in the world who says that technicals can carry other heavy weapons. Ufopedia says the opposite, all players say the opposite, but you keep insisting. If you really didn't change the ini files, the only explanation is that one of the mods changes it (intentionally or not). There are no other LW2 versions, only the last version (1.5) that everyone has been using for years.

My current campaign is fully vanilla, aside from LW2 itself of course. And guess what...I can still equip shredder guns on technicals with the EXO or WAR suit. So yes, you got that detail wrong, its not that big of a deal.

But despite the clear evidence I've provided, go ahead and keep arguing ad populum if you like. I'm done discussing this.