Optimum stats for each class

[LooksLikeDaniel]

I've decided to give Long War 2 another go. (I love the first LW, but I wasn't impressed with the second one at first.)

I'm using the commander's choice mod because why would you not, and I was wondering if anyone can give me an idea of what stats each class requires for proper optimization.

I'm also using the biotics (as in Mass Effect) mod. I usually use that instead of psi, but I might use it along side it this time.

[wortkarg]

There are the WotC version of LW2 - LWOTC (still in beta, but pretty stable and many people play LWOTC already). This mod is not in the workshop yet (manual installation).

As for stats, here some recomendations:
Assault - high mobility, high/average HP/defense/dodge, aim can be low
Grenadier - high defense
Gunner - high/average aim, high/average defensive stats
Ranger - high/average aim
Sharpshooter - high aim, defensive stats can be low
Shinobi - high mobility, high/average HP/defense/dodge, aim is important as well (for melee) but not that important
Specialist - high hacking
Technical - average/high mobility, average/high aim, average+ defensive stats (mobility/defense is important for flamethrower specialization, aim for rockets)
Psi Operative - high psi offense

[joebruce185]

I agree with wortkarg's assessment, and would have posted something similar. The issue is that (almost) everyone needs high aim, and that isn't a reality. So with the idea that it is also helpful to consider what classes are good with certain bad stats, here we go:

Low aim: flamer technicals, scout shinobis, grenadiers, and psi; Assault yes, but I also like high aim assaults...
Low mobility: sharpshooter, psi, anyone you can stick an SMG on (but not grenadier)
Low defense: sharpshooter; classes with Fortify perk to offset (Ranger, Assault and Technical);

Definitely stay away from Grenadier if their mobility is <15. And I'm assuming you know there are PCS things which boost your stats, and helping a solider compensate for a bad stat can be just as useful as augmenting a good one. And sometimes your build choice can offset their shortcomings: a slow, accurate Assault soldier? Specialize in the arc thrower perks and use a rifle over shotgun!

[LooksLikeDaniel]

What about Medic Specialists? In the original Long War, high mobility was a requirement for medics. Would you say that's still the case in LW2? Those robots sort of change the game a bit.

[Mrvecz]

Originally posted by LooksLikeDaniel:

What about Medic Specialists? In the original Long War, high mobility was a requirement for medics. Would you say that's still the case in LW2? Those robots sort of change the game a bit.

Specialist can heal remotely with gremlins so mobility is irrelevant for them.

[wortkarg]

@joebruce185: i mostly agree, but here's some thoughts:

Originally posted by joebruce185:

Low defense: sharpshooter; classes with Fortify perk to offset (Ranger, Assault and Technical)

I wouldn't rely on Fortify. This perk has 5 turns cooldown and there are often better alternatives (Stun Gunner for Assault and Biggest Booms/Napalm-X for Technical). It has only a slight impact on overall survivability and e.g. assault needs all defense he can get (without losing any other important abilities).

Defensive stats/perks are important for (descending) assault, (blade-)shinobi, grenadiers, flamer technicals, gunners. Lowest prio for sharpshooters.

Originally posted by joebruce185:

Definitely stay away from Grenadier if their mobility is <15

I think, that mobility is not really important for grenadiers. 14 is enough and 13 is acceptable as well (13 is actually bad for any class). Grenadiers have a very long range and they can stay behind and still reach the enemies with grenades. They can carry a SMG to boost the mobility. The only really important stat is defense, because grenadiers have no spare slot for plating and high defense makes them low prio targets for enemies (+ defense PCS).

Originally posted by joebruce185:

And sometimes your build choice can offset their shortcomings: a slow, accurate Assault soldier? Specialize in the arc thrower perks and use a rifle over shotgun!

I'd add that arc thrower perks are always good. I would always take Stun Gunner and at MSGT Chain Lightning is very good pick as well.

As a side note, OW specialists need high aim as well (average/high).
As for medics, i only take Medical Protocol and Field Surgeon from medic perk line. If your soldiers get hurt a lot, you can take some other medical perks, but i'd recommend Full Override at GSGT (all specialists).

[Sabaithal]

Assuming you're using regular LW2, there are varieties of combinations. Though generally I would pick...
- Assault - High mobility, and either high HP, dodge, or defense.
- Shinobi - High dodge or defense. Mobility not as important except with scouts.
- Grenadier - High defense for pure grenade builds. High mobility the rest of the time.
- Gunner - High HP, decent aim (not great). Dodge is a bonus.
- Sharpshooter - High aim obviously.
- Ranger - Good aim. Decent will.
- Specialist - High hack score. The rest highly depends on its role.
- Technical - Decent aim. Again, role dependent.
- Psionic - High will and psi-offense.

Again, a lot of that is variable depending on what you want each specific soldier to be doing. I use a squad that has high mobility technicals because they specialist in flamethrower usage, and need to move far quickly.

[Timbermaw]

Defense is kind of a tricky one because if you stack defense on the assault (the one you want enemies to attack), they will prioritize the other lower defense targets which you don't really want.
How do we deal with this impasse?

[Sabaithal]

Originally posted by Timbermaw:

Defense is kind of a tricky one because if you stack defense on the assault (the one you want enemies to attack), they will prioritize the other lower defense targets which you don't really want.
How do we deal with this impasse?

Give them high dodge instead? I mean that means they will likely take graze fire hits instead of full hits most of the time. But assaults are high risk classes, that you might not want to expose to enemy fire if you can help it.

Generally, anything low-risk I keep in high cover. So even if enemies take shots at them, most of the time it does nothing (also I keep anything still alive either heavily injured with red fog, or flashbanged, or both).

[frankie60]

Originally posted by Timbermaw:

Defense is kind of a tricky one because if you stack defense on the assault (the one you want enemies to attack), they will prioritize the other lower defense targets which you don't really want.
How do we deal with this impasse?

Kill them...

[Timbermaw]

Originally posted by frankie60:

Originally posted by Timbermaw:

Defense is kind of a tricky one because if you stack defense on the assault (the one you want enemies to attack), they will prioritize the other lower defense targets which you don't really want.
How do we deal with this impasse?

Kill them...

Well if you're killing them you don't need defense!

[wortkarg]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

- Shinobi - High dodge or defense. Mobility not as important except with scouts

As for me, mobility is very important for shinobi (second most important after assault). Shinobis are extremely effective with the sword and for melee attacks you need range, especially for Reaper and Whirlwind. With high mobility they can easily outrun the enemies and run away when things go wrong. Both classes get the best speed PCS.

Originally posted by Timbermaw:

Defense is kind of a tricky one because if you stack defense on the assault (the one you want enemies to attack), they will prioritize the other lower defense targets which you don't really want.
How do we deal with this impasse?

I don't want them shooting at the assault. Assaults are front line soldiers and they are taking enough risk already. Rangers or gunners can take the tank role, especially if they roll some defensive AWC perks. If a ranger is wounded, he can do his job anyway, if an assault is wounded the risk, that he will die, if we send him ahead is very high (and he is almost useless at middle range).

[wortkarg]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

Give them high dodge instead? I mean that means they will likely take graze fire hits instead of full hits most of the time

People overestimate the dodge. It helps, but it's not a cure-all. You can't stack it high enough to make a big difference. My best shinobi with dodge 25-30 got once a crit shot through the full cover. The crit of the enemy weapon effectively lowers the dodge effect. Besides, assaults and shinobis are front-line fighters and they can be flanked sometimes (it's +40 crit = -40 dodge).

[frankie60]

Originally posted by Timbermaw:

Originally posted by frankie60:

Kill them...

Well if you're killing them you don't need defense!

Exactly... But to answer your question, if you're not employing some type of debuffing Crowd Control (stun, fire, disorient, stasis, etc) in addition to your trigger happy antics, then your approach can probably use some adjustment.

[Fredericks of Cursewood]

Originally posted by wortkarg:

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

Give them high dodge instead? I mean that means they will likely take graze fire hits instead of full hits most of the time

People overestimate the dodge. It helps, but it's not a cure-all. You can't stack it high enough to make a big difference. My best shinobi with dodge 25-30 got once a crit shot through the full cover. The crit of the enemy weapon effectively lowers the dodge effect. Besides, assaults and shinobis are front-line fighters and they can be flanked sometimes (it's +40 crit = -40 dodge).

On the other hand with resilience and hard target, they are almost unkillable. I have seen whole squads of Advent taking shots at my shinobi and either completely missing or grazing for minor damage. I am not saying that they can't get hit for full damage, but it does seem rare.


Shinobi > 10 Dodge
Sharpshooter > 70 aim
Technical > 16 mobility
Grenadier - Defense + HP
Assault - HP
Ranger > 65 Aim + average or better HP and defense
Gunner - average all around
Specialist - If they don't fit into the other classes, I usually make specialist out of them. Hack is important, but the baseline hacking number is pretty small to start with that I think it makes much of a difference.

[wortkarg]

Originally posted by Fredericks of Cursewood:

On the other hand with resilience and hard target, they are almost unkillable

Shinobi doesn't have resilience, only if he's lucky enough to roll this perk in AWC (not a common case). "Hard target" is very questionable, both alternatives are better IMHO (Covert for scout, Cutthroat for bladenobi).

Originally posted by Fredericks of Cursewood:

I have seen whole squads of Advent taking shots at my shinobi and either completely missing or grazing for minor damage

It's all random, sometimes we got lucky and sometimes not. The dodge impact can be calculated. If we have +15 dodge from hard target (5 enemies), it means, that we get +15% chance to downgrade the result one tier (crit -> hit -> graze -> miss). 85% of the time it doesn't change anything (85% of all hits, not 85% of the shots) and 15% only give us a damage reduction (or graze -> miss). If we count misses as well, it will be like damage reduction in a 7% of the cases (shots). In general, we shouldn't let the enemies shoot at our shinobi, therefore the cases in which "hard target" helps are relatively rare (the best defense is a good offense).