War of the Chosen kinda... sucks?

[Zaxx]

Playing through the game for the first time with the expansion included proved to be a nightmare so much that I just gave up and decided to play the base game instead. Why did they feel the need to add 20 subsystems with that thing? Am I the only one who feels that doing a first playthrough with the "XCOM 2 Collection" content shouldn't be recommended at all?

[Veylox]

No it doesn't. You're overwhelmed by it because you're trying to do a first playthrough with it activated, which is greedy at best, and skill issue at worst. Most people would've encouraged you to do a clean playthrough first to learn the systems before jumping into Wotc, had you wondered before trying

Wotc is a good expansion and definitely not a "nightmare" when you stop having no idea what you're doing, just take your time before activating it if it's too much at once

[COINCELPRO]

wotc is ok and fleshes the game out, it's the micro-dlc's in the collection that seriously blow (specifically the "reinforcement pack")

[Uncle Khai]

no balls no glory

[Razorblade]

Have you only played FPSes before or something? As far as strategy-adjacent games go, XCOM 2 is quite simple mechanically. Sure, it's challenging, but there aren't exactly a lot of mechanics to learn about; you just need to engage with those few mechanics at a higher level than in most games.

Imo, the DLCs add much needed complexity. It's not like 4 extra classes, timed passive missions, a handful of bosses, and "soldiers get tired after a few missions" are terribly difficult concepts to wrap your head around, but they do make the game just complex enough to be interesting.

Moreover, the DLCs largely add mechanics that benefit the player. Sure, bosses can be situationally difficult, but Hero Classes, Covert Ops, Bonds, Chosen Weapons, Hunter Weapons, etc. more than offset any points of increased difficulty, and are positives you always have access to, whereas you rarely have to fight a boss enemy.

[Zaxx]

Originally posted by Razorblade:

Have you only played FPSes before or something? As far as strategy-adjacent games go, XCOM 2 is quite simple mechanically. Sure, it's challenging, but there aren't exactly a lot of mechanics to learn about; you just need to engage with those few mechanics at a higher level than in most games.

I kinda know my way around XCOM, I mean I did complete Enemy Unknown in ironman mode on classic difficulty.

My problem is twofold: the game has a lot of "random trash" when it comes to mechanics. Your soldiers not only get wounded but tired too, you can do guerilla ops and Assassin's Creed like covert operations where you don't play the game and your soldier just gets locked away for X days. There are dark events, monthly resistance card thingies, every second mission is timed for some reason, there are also cheesy looking subfactions and 3 anime characters chasing after you. It's just so much random bs while Enemy Unknown was just a nice and clean version of X-COM where you didn't have to worry about action points and building 8 bases around the globe. Also: nobody ever shuts up and the pop-ups just never stop on the geoscape.

So some of that nice simplicity is lost and it's filled up with "feature creep" instead to the point that the campaign feels like it starts with a 5 hour, cutscene filled tutorial and there comes my second issue. This is just too much of a generic AAA game in aesthetics, like there is no dread, no nice horror atmosphere or the mysteries of the unknown, nope, here, fight a bunch of humanlike enemies most of the time, even the sectoid looks human now because "eXpErImEnTs". Haven't even encountered the part where you shoot down UFOs and investigate the crash site, that's gone from this too?

So yeah, there's just not much of X-COM left in this game, the "depose the alien dictatorship" plot starts fine but quickly becomes boring (again: you're mostly fighting humanoids) and I just want a nice map with a farm and little gray aliens. But I will give the base game another go, at least my soldiers won't go tired after every mission and there are no purple anime characters trash talking me through the radio like in some schlocky action game.

[Straw Man]

http://www.vigaroe.com/p/xcom-2-analysis-index.html <- The WOTC bible.

In short, it's kind of a buggy rushed glitchy mess, but with a healthy selection of mods it's very much the definitive modern XCOM.

[zoutzakje]

Xcom 2 not having the same atmosphere as Xcom: EU/EW is a common complaint. And while WotC adds more interesting mechanics, it also adds a lot of chatter that further widens the atmospheric gap. Either you can accept that they're different games and find enjoyment in both, or you can not. That's all there is to it.

[Straw Man]

Or immediately mod out Chosen voicelines, cinematics for every pod until the end of time, "sword misses", get rid of the overwatch freeze up thing, and get a UI that actually gives you relevant information.

Without those bare essentials, I'd say WOTC feels pretty Early Access Amateur Hour, just like Rising Tide.

[Zaxx]

Restarted with the base game. Got some mission in the first month where you control Shen. Wasted 45 minutes to get to the end of it... then I'm supposed to fight a sectopod in the FIRST MONTH. Of course this is some crappy DLC too. Uninstalled, I'll give this game another whirl sometime but at this point I'm just tired and done.

Looked up some of the alien hit chance stats too and it seems like an increase compared to XCOM EU in general and I'm also not a fan of that. Against a marked soldier standing behind full cover black and red advent soldiers can have 40% and 50% hit chance and marking is an ability that they use on the very first map. So uh, that's not fair and it's a dumbing down on the gameplay in favor of punishing you with some extra RNG. Seems like a time waster instead of a proper TBS.

[zoutzakje]

Seems like you're quick to judge things as well instead of giving them a proper chance, but you do you.

[Zaxx]

Originally posted by zoutzakje:

Seems like you're quick to judge things as well instead of giving them a proper chance, but you do you.

Oh, rest assured that I will return to this one day, it's just that the ~15 hours I played overall was full of random crap instead of feeling like a proper sequel to Enemy Unknown. There are still a lot of people playing this thing so it has to get good eventually.

[harken23]

I would absolutely recommend playing non-WOTC the first time. WOTC is a huge change, and not all (altho mostly) for the good. Without WOTC you're a lot more of a struggling for a last defense of Earth. In WOTC you're a bunch of super heroes fighting cliche-spouting, moustache twirling Chosen.

[Sabaithal]

Agree, but not for those reasons. The game rewrites too much to the point where it doesn't feel like XCOM anymore for me, which I know is purely subjective.

But simply put, making the main focus a bunch of annoying gimmicky minibosses (you know, the worse part of the DLCs?) that stop being relevant after a certain point in the game just... doesn't add much for me.

Long War 2 is far better for me. For one thing, its free. And it meaningfully adds to the game with its new mechanics, making them feel similar to the older XCOM titles.

[Hayaji]

The lack of eu/ew atmosphere is my biggest gripe with the game, but I still have close to 400 hours on it compared to 150 on ew. The modability of the game is extreme and is what keeps me coming back. I really suggest starting on veteran without ironman for the first time as the game is different from ew.

IIRC the sectoids from ew had 65, which is the same as basic troopers have. They also die in one hit. The game also cheats in your favor on lower difficulties, like increasing you hitchances for subsequent missed shots or limiting the amount of enemies that can shoot you per turn.

Also the mission with Shen is supposed to be done later in the game when you have mag weapons and bluescreen rounds. There's no problem with letting it sit there for a while.

[Veylox]

Originally posted by harken23:

I would absolutely recommend playing non-WOTC the first time. WOTC is a huge change, and not all (altho mostly) for the good. Without WOTC you're a lot more of a struggling for a last defense of Earth. In WOTC you're a bunch of super heroes fighting cliche-spouting, moustache twirling Chosen.

I've seen that "moustache twirling" comment a lot and wondered where it came from. 80% of the chosen dialogue is admirative of X-com, trying to get X-com to see their side, and sometimes doubtful or rebellious towards the ancient

Definitely not "moustache-twirling"