simple question about story

[vokulnin]

So, I just finished Xcom ennemy within , and from what I'm looking about the lore on the steam page: basically this game is what happen if you have a game over in the previous Xcom game? (and not a sequel to it story wise)

[Create@Review(Ravire)]

xcom2 takes place after enemy within can't say much because I would spoil the game. It is worth a playthrough but if you only want to see the story youtube it.

[LukanGamer]

its not even after its like 1/2 way and really not even connected at all. They just lazied out and you can ignore 1st story wise.

[vokulnin]

okay, I see. more like a parrallel universe so

well, I plan to play the game, but I think I will wait for some sales. I was just curious since it didn't seemed to go along the end of previous Xcom

[gimmethegepgun]

Basically, XCOM attacked the first alien base very quickly, then they lost during the assault on XCOM's base.

[Mhblis]

Well it kind of does. The stats show that most first campaigns for XCOM was actually lost. They released that stat somewhere.

But yes the story from EU/EW is tied in loosely to 2 but its pretty spoiler heavy to explain how.

[TamTroll]

i beleive the idea is that Xcom EU/EW and the various replays you did were all part of the "war games" that the Elders pumped into your mind in order to learn your tactics and use them against Xcom while taking over earth. Every UFO you shot down was really a human fighter jet, every chryssalid was a rebel rioting against the invaders, every muton a member of the failing Xcom, etc.

it DOES help with introducing some characters such as Shen, Vahlen, and Van Doorn ( You can hear a breif chatter from Central about him, as well as potentually find him as a soldier in Xcom 2), so it's not a total loss.

if i recall correctly, there are some theories that Exhalt did actually exist, but later became the beginnings of ADVENT, and that the Furies as well existed, and may have become, or were part of the building blocks for the Chosen.

[Sabaithal]

Well simply put:

The canon end for the first game is the one where you won. None of the endings fit by process of elimination. If you lost via losing too many countries, the councilman becomes mind-controlled, when that obviously is not the case in the next game. And losing via base defense results in bradford being dead, which is also not the case. The only ending that fits is the one where you won the game.

And after you black holed the temple ship the aliens invaded with their REAL invasion force. They launched simultaneous assaults on all modernized countries using advanced weaponry and force, ect (this is mentioned when the first sectopod in this game is revealed, that it was used to defeat most of earths conventional armored forces) forcing them into surrender. Then they established their own governing body called ADVENT to manage the various zones now under their control, mostly the primary city-centers.

It should be noted that the entire planet IS NOT under alien control at present. As many maps suggest (as well as resistance havens being present), much of the world away from the main city centers is in ruins and shambles due to either the invasion war or just lack of any governing body to handle those areas. An area without a stable economic flow will fall to ruin pretty quick.

As for why the aliens invaded, well the elders (ethereals) are using dying bodies that cannot even properly move (remember that they move by levitating), probably due to too much genetic tampering or overuse of cloning. Humanity however is not only very genetically diverse, but also shows capability in sustaining considerable psionic power on par with the ethereals. They plan to use a spliced version of human DNA to create pseudo-human bodies called AVATARS to move themselves into and prevent the death of their race.

However, their ruthlessness also shows that they will likely dispose of all humans once they get what they want.

[Sifer2]

You could say this game takes place in a different timeline from the original game. One where Xcom got as far as developing MEC's at least but loss the base defense mission. However Bradford escaped somehow starting a resistance force. Which manages to rescue you the Commander from the aliens thus starting Xcom 2.

[gimmethegepgun]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

Well simply put:

The canon end for the first game is the one where you won. None of the endings fit by process of elimination. If you lost via losing too many countries, the councilman becomes mind-controlled, when that obviously is not the case in the next game. And losing via base defense results in bradford being dead, which is also not the case. The only ending that fits is the one where you won the game.

And after you black holed the temple ship the aliens invaded with their REAL invasion force.

Completely incorrect. XCOM 2 makes it abundantly clear that you never got very far. You never developed MEC troopers, you never developed laser weapons, and you never killed and gutted a Sectopod considering Tygan's voiceline for Sectopod Breakdown says you assumed it had a Sectoid pilot. And, most of all, it's shown that most of the fights you had with them were simulations because they put the Commander into the Matrix.

[VoiD]

From what I understood XCOM was just a dream, the commander was captured early in the invasion and everything he did during XCOM was in his head, while he thought he was fighting the aliens, he was in reality fighting XCOM for the aliens.

When he's rescued and they take the chip ouf of his head that's when he starts to actually fight for humanity.

[Sabaithal]

Originally posted by gimmethegepgun:

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

Well simply put:

The canon end for the first game is the one where you won. None of the endings fit by process of elimination. If you lost via losing too many countries, the councilman becomes mind-controlled, when that obviously is not the case in the next game. And losing via base defense results in bradford being dead, which is also not the case. The only ending that fits is the one where you won the game.

And after you black holed the temple ship the aliens invaded with their REAL invasion force.

Completely incorrect. XCOM 2 makes it abundantly clear that you never got very far. You never developed MEC troopers, you never developed laser weapons, and you never killed and gutted a Sectopod considering Tygan's voiceline for Sectopod Breakdown says you assumed it had a Sectoid pilot. And, most of all, it's shown that most of the fights you had with them were simulations because they put the Commander into the Matrix.

*facepalm*
Simulations? Really? I guess that would explain why I have never heard any reference to that AT ALL in any of my XCOM 2 or XCOM EW playthroughs. In fact, I have the game open right now and I cannot find any reference to any such phenomenon. Care to provide any evidence to back that up?

I believe either shen or tygen outright say the first time you meet a sectopod in XCOM 2 that these were used to defeat most of earths conventional armored forces. I remember the line happening in every playthrough. As for why they assumed there was a sectoid pilot, its clear the sectopod in XCOM 2 was a completely different model than the XCOM EW version. And its likely the aliens don't even refer to it as a sectopod, or even consider it in the same catagory, its humans that do, hence the same name.

As far as the gaps between 1993 and 2015 (the invasion) in the XCOM archives is likely due to most of the information being lost during the invasion and the assault of the main base, and/or some of it being classified. The actual actions, and base location you could have chosen vary greatly, so the entry that could have been put into the archives is limited to maintain a proper narrative.

Also, assuming the commander were in a simulation throughout the entirety of XCOM EW, and assuming none of that stuff actually happened...why would the aliens care about capturing the commander at all? In the "matrix" theory you've got going here, you haven't actually done anything in the real world, therefore the aliens wouldn't have observed anything significant about you, therefore no reason to try and capture you, study you, and download your mind into their network, ect. There are holes all over this theory.

So I'm fairly sure that my deductions based on ingame facts and dialogue from both games is correct.

[Eggy]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

Originally posted by gimmethegepgun:

Completely incorrect. XCOM 2 makes it abundantly clear that you never got very far. You never developed MEC troopers, you never developed laser weapons, and you never killed and gutted a Sectopod considering Tygan's voiceline for Sectopod Breakdown says you assumed it had a Sectoid pilot. And, most of all, it's shown that most of the fights you had with them were simulations because they put the Commander into the Matrix.

*facepalm*
Simulations? Really? I guess that would explain why I have never heard any reference to that AT ALL in any of my XCOM 2 or XCOM EW playthroughs. In fact, I have the game open right now and I cannot find any reference to any such phenomenon. Care to provide any evidence to back that up?

I believe either shen or tygen outright say the first time you meet a sectopod in XCOM 2 that these were used to defeat most of earths conventional armored forces. I remember the line happening in every playthrough. As for why they assumed there was a sectoid pilot, its clear the sectopod in XCOM 2 was a completely different model than the XCOM EW version. And its likely the aliens don't even refer to it as a sectopod, or even consider it in the same catagory, its humans that do, hence the same name.

As far as the gaps between 1993 and 2015 (the invasion) in the XCOM archives is likely due to most of the information being lost during the invasion and the assault of the main base, and/or some of it being classified. The actual actions, and base location you could have chosen vary greatly, so the entry that could have been put into the archives is limited to maintain a proper narrative.

Also, assuming the commander were in a simulation throughout the entirety of XCOM EW, and assuming none of that stuff actually happened...why would the aliens care about capturing the commander at all? In the "matrix" theory you've got going here, you haven't actually done anything in the real world, therefore the aliens wouldn't have observed anything significant about you, therefore no reason to try and capture you, study you, and download your mind into their network, ect. There are holes all over this theory.

So I'm fairly sure that my deductions based on ingame facts and dialogue from both games is correct.

There may be holes all over the story but its the cannon story as explained by the developers of the game in some of there early pre release (and at release) videos.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XCOM_2

XCOM lost the base defence mission in XCOMEW and the commander was captured.
The rest of EW was tactical simulations and alien missions. You were in effect fighting for the aliens as they used what they saw to make there troops different.

This is explained in the autopsy/research archives voice overs in xcom2. Tygan even mentions that the commander has most likely been running thousands and thousands of simulations when he analyses the chip.
The chosen mention the commanders tactical skills as well as being the reason that the aliens want you back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC8qfi_NnTc
Jake Solomon explaining how and when xcom lost the war. You know ... the CREATIVE DIRECTOR.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1ml3O3AyL8
The autopsy section you want is around the 19:50 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKz9EdKMNpk
Art Director for xcom2. "if you played enemy unknown there is one thing you should know - you lost"

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

Well simply put:
The canon end for the first game is the one where you won.

There is also a book (that is classed as cannon) that sits between xcomew and xcom2.
Valhen is in it and xcom(wihtout the commander) has a submarnine base but I have never been able to find a copy.

[talemore]

Maybe the aliens have a fetish on the commander. Or it's related to The bereau whereas the commander is an elder. Or them just needed the best blueprint for their clones to find out what makes us tick. The aliens particular large eyes and booby bodies were designed with no attribute to any biological advantages. It just works.

[Sabaithal]

Originally posted by Eggy:

XCOM lost the base defence mission in XCOMEW and the commander was captured.
The rest of EW was tactical simulations and alien missions. You were in effect fighting for the aliens as they used what they saw to make there troops different.

This is explained in the autopsy/research archives voice overs in xcom2. Tygan even mentions that the commander has most likely been running thousands and thousands of simulations when he analyses the chip.
The chosen mention the commanders tactical skills as well as being the reason that the aliens want you back.

Just because ADVENT has the commander in simulations, doesn't mean the entire first game was set in the matrix. That is never elaborated. The fact is if we resort to the whole "it was just a dream/simulation" theory with no definitive evidence proving or denying it we won't get anywhere. So until I see concrete evidence, not just something suggestive, I don't believe that theory. On a side note, its also a creativity copout at this point (we couldn't find a creative way to make game A transition to game B, so we just made the explanation that game A was all a dream/the matrix or whatever).

Also I wouldn't rely on wikipedia for story information in this context. It already misses a couple of very crucial details. Notably, how the councilman isn't mind-controlled in XCOM 2 despite the wiki claiming that the canon ending was where you lost due to losing too many countries (in which he was mind-controlled as a result).

[Sabaithal]

Also I just watched both videos. The creative director intentionally kept the wording vague. He said that XCOM lost in the intial engagement. That could be referring to one battle, or the entire first game as the 'engagement'. He doesn't elaborate. He said the aliens came in overwhelming force as well, think about playing the game on impossible difficulty. Well if you play on impossible difficulty you will probably lose many soldiers, and enemy numbers (i think) were slightly increased as well, so that matches up with the first game as well. He said XCOM never stopped fighting, and you didn't really (which directly conflicts with the wiki section btw). That being said, none of this proves that you lost during the base assault or that the entire game is set in the matrix.

We also knew from the beginning of the game that the commander was plugged into the network acting as a signal booster for ADVENT forces so to speak. However the game does not elaborate what the commander's personal experience while they were connected would have been like.