XCOM 2
NeonλSprawl Sep 26, 2017 @ 7:26pm
[WotC] Will Stat, Tiredness, & Leveling
In my WotC campaign, I've managed to get to the early late-game. I've got most of the beam plasma/beam weapons built, I've got a few soldiers to Colonel rank, and I've managed to take down the Assassin and two Rulers.

But, I've noticed that a lot of my troops are tired after a single mission even after being fully rested. If the mission is especially long, such as the one to kill the Assassin, one trooper became Shaken just on how little Will she had left by the end. It took me a while, but I finally noticed something.

Not a single trooper has leveled up their Will stat since starting.

The only ones that have improved their Will from beyond its Rookie value are those that have gotten a bonus thanks to Covert Ops. Some are barely above 40, with the highest being around mid-50's.

At first I thought this was a bug, but after looking at a bunch of promo shots for WotC:

https://www.gamecrate.com/sites/default/files/xcom-2-war-chosen-review.jpg
https://www.gamecrate.com/sites/default/files/xcom-2-war-chosen-review2.jpg
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9145487/XCom2_2017_08_30_11_54_22_51.jpg
https://www.gizorama.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/20170905164937_1.jpg

I was very surprised to find that it was consistent with reviewers. The Will stat for Soldiers absolutely pales in comparison to the Will stat of vanilla XCOM 2 soldiers:

http://i.imgur.com/PfhS97r.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QjaFijS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KOl0g4S.jpg

And with Will being tied to fatigue, it can be a handicap for some soldiers during the entire play-through. It also makes soldiers extremely vulnerable to Psi-attacks. So far through my campaign, I don't believe I've seen a single Sectoid or Priest fail a mind-control check. I've tried to find some documentation or mention of this somewhere, but have so far failed.

So is this intention design, or is it some gross oversight? Because it does not feel quite right when my Colonels have Rookies with more cojones then them.

Edit: Obviously not a bug, which is reasssuring for my campaign, but still think the topic is something to discuss. I'm personally not a fan of having no progression of the stat as soldiers level, especially when all other stats progress.
Last edited by NeonλSprawl; Sep 27, 2017 @ 10:31am
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Showing 1-12 of 12 comments
Bryan=0101 Sep 26, 2017 @ 7:29pm 
I have not have the same issue my soldiers can take several missions in a row
anachoret Sep 26, 2017 @ 7:32pm 
I think 40-50 will is normal for fully ranked troops in WOTC. Other things like the Dark Event "Dark Tower" and the Chosen trait "Brutal" can drain will more quickly. Invest in Mind Shields.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/268500/discussions/0/1496741765139935429/#c1496741765142793726
Last edited by anachoret; Sep 26, 2017 @ 7:58pm
V fvr VvWvL Sep 26, 2017 @ 9:15pm 
It is intentional. The will count is more of a set meter than a number that you can upgrade with time.

There is a mod out there that lets you see a notification above each of your soldiers everytime they lose will during a mission. The will loss is usually set in increments of -1 to -4 depending on the severity of the situation- pod reveals will inflict 1-2 will damage, taking damage will do 3+ will damage, etc. However it rarely ever goes above 5 will damage at a time as far as I remember. Because of this, a set bar, that is only mildly unique to each trooper, is a reasonable balance.

It would become pretty easy if your veterans just beefed up their will and tanked stress like it was just another day in the office. If you want to look at it from a somewhat realistic aspect, your gameplay is a matter of life and death for these soldiers after all- they are going to be at their most stressed and most alert state of mind until they return to the skyranger.

On that note, the only troopers who have been receiving will buffs as far as I have noticed are the psi-operatives whose will determines the power of their attacks as well as their mental stability.

I am running a game in which I currently have 3 psi operatives at the adept rank (sergeant equivalent) and 6 soldiers at the rank of sergeant. The average will stats for each group were 55.66... and 47.16... respectively.

Sure a little math may be off due to the sergeants being twice in quantity than the psi-operatives i have, but it is still relatively telling of the game's design.

My personal advice on the matter, should you need it, is to pay immense attention to your soldiers' will stat before sending them out. Soldiers at 100% tend to perform the best when fighting psionic enemies early on in the mission. (Mind control attempts work only about 50% against my troops from what I remember... maybe a smidge higher but who's counting really). Of course, mind shields are also especially useful for the troops who are in the forefront of combat more often (rangers and templars, for example).

On a final note, think of a long, hard, driven, degrading, crappy day at work or school or whatever. At the end of the day a break is what you're going to want for a number of reasons: it'll help you relax, it'll alleviate the stress, and damnit, you deserve a break after a day like that, no?

Now throw in some aliens trying to kill you horribly in that mix. A few days off to recuperate is a pretty substantial way to recover wouldn't you agree? I would certainly think so.
These operatives live in the suck for a living- to free humanity from a malignant growth that plots to consum them all! They eat life and death situations for breakfast, luch, and supper!

Some leave is in order for them I think!

Hopefully this helped you narrow down your questions about the stress mechanics in the game. Happy hunting!
.O. Sep 27, 2017 @ 12:00am 
38-45 is where most of my soldiers sit and that's fairly normal. The only soldiers that I have with more will than that are the ones that I specifically sent on covert ops that grant will bonuses, so usually my specialists. I think I managed to get one specialist to 77, she's pretty much always ready to go on any mission unless I somehow got her injured.

Oh and as for the mind control check, I've seen it succeed and fail multiple times. I don't normally let those enemies survive long enough to get that kind of attack in, but the few cases I've seen don't seem to be much different from sectoid MC chance in vanilla.
Last edited by .O.; Sep 27, 2017 @ 12:03am
talemore Sep 27, 2017 @ 1:07am 
Intended.

Before the dlc the only way to drop will was to let countless soldiers be wounded or die. Players don't allow soldiers to die because we don't have infinite recruits and so forth Will never drops.

You can end up with 35 will on every soldier in vanilla but no one plays this reckless because it's impossible to win if you lose or wound soldiers, xcom:ew allowed you to win as long you could repay the cost for every fallen soldier. It's only a matter of design, will intended to drop with time because only the strongest would survive and every mission had a ratio of at least one soldier died on every mission. The final bosses couldn't use their abilities because every soldier by the end were almost immune to psionic mindcontrol.

It was an oversight by the devs to make psionic abilities by the elders so weak not a single target had a fair chance to be mindcontrolled and their willstats so low you end up taking control over the bosses in xcom:ew. The final bosses in xcom2 are no longer allowed to be mindcontrolled and are now able to use their mindcontrol abilities.
Tiasmoon Sep 27, 2017 @ 1:13am 
Originally posted by NeonλSprawl:

And with Will being tied to fatigue, it can be a handicap for some soldiers during the entire play-through. It also makes soldiers extremely vulnerable to Psi-attacks. So far through my campaign, I don't believe I've seen a single Sectoid or Priest fail a mind-control check. I've tried to find some documentation or mention of this somewhere, but have so far failed.

So is this intention design, or is it some gross oversight? Because it does not feel quite right when my Colonels have Rookies with more cojones then them.

It is intended design. Altho Will measures up more favorable against Psi effects as it did before in my experience. 50 Will for example seems to give a pretty good chance to resist them.

Also Mind Shields are stupidly easy/fast to obtain in the game, making psi effects a none-issue if you care about them.



Originally posted by talemore:
The final bosses in xcom2 are no longer allowed to be mindcontrolled and are now able to use their mindcontrol abilities.

They were always immune to mind control and their own mindcontrol unresistable by Will alone.
Artek [General] Sep 27, 2017 @ 1:42am 
The more i read about WotC changes the more i feel like i will absolutely hate it...

Fatique tied to will?
Will no longer naturally grows up to 100 like in vanilla?
Soldiers cant go 2 missions in a row?
Chosen cen permanently nerf it even further?

Seriously, it sounds less and less fun the more i read on these forums.
Just a big pile of inconveniences.
Last edited by Artek [General]; Sep 27, 2017 @ 1:43am
Akadai Sep 27, 2017 @ 2:34am 
Originally posted by TheFirstEpiCoW:
On that note, the only troopers who have been receiving will buffs as far as I have noticed are the psi-operatives whose will determines the power of their attacks as well as their mental stability.

Will doesn't determine psi-ops power in Xcom 2. It's determined by the Psi-Power stat, which has nothing to do with will. Giving extra will to a Psi- Op is mostly pointless. Mental stability also isn't needed due to one of their skills giving them complete immunity to mind control and panic
Tiasmoon Sep 27, 2017 @ 4:10am 
Originally posted by Artek General:
The more i read about WotC changes the more i feel like i will absolutely hate it...

Fatique tied to will?
Will no longer naturally grows up to 100 like in vanilla?
Soldiers cant go 2 missions in a row?
Chosen cen permanently nerf it even further?

Will checks work differently. Altho I havent made a 1:1 comparison, imagine that 50 Will is more like 80 Will before.

Soldiers can usually go 2 missions in a row before they have to be swapped out. I agree that its a bit of an annoying feature at first, but you get used to it.

Originally posted by Artek General:
Chosen cen permanently nerf it even further?

Seriously, it sounds less and less fun the more i read on these forums.
Just a big pile of inconveniences.

I remember reading you say how Brutal was quite bugged, but I assumed you played WotC back then. Since I guess you havent yet, youve missed more then a few things related to this or Will.

Chosen can only reduce the stats with a single Strength(out of a list of maybe 15 orso total). They start out with 2 random ones, and gain more through the course of the game, upwards of 5-6. In any single game you might encounter one that has Brutal..maybe.

It only gives very slight penalties to Will, however; and you won't encounter each individual Chosen more then half a dozen orso times in the course of a campaign.
learnedhand Sep 27, 2017 @ 8:48am 
One of my favorite things about WOTC are the changes to the Will mechanic. Its basically understanding combat in a PTSD world. The idea is great, implementation could perhaps be improved. Maybe more ways to improve will? Perhaps a counselor function in the infirmary that can recover/increase lost will alongside of negative traits? or maybe a buff to will if a soldier is in a mission with a bondmate?

I really like how all hell can break loose when a teammate gets killed and morale crumbles.
Tiasmoon Sep 27, 2017 @ 9:39am 
Would make sense if performing well/getting out alive despite staggering odds or something could boost Will. Kind of like the AP points gain.

I think a straight up recovery function ala infirmary would be far too strong tho; it would trivialise Will losses.
V fvr VvWvL Sep 27, 2017 @ 6:27pm 
Originally posted by Akadai:
Originally posted by TheFirstEpiCoW:
On that note, the only troopers who have been receiving will buffs as far as I have noticed are the psi-operatives whose will determines the power of their attacks as well as their mental stability.

Will doesn't determine psi-ops power in Xcom 2. It's determined by the Psi-Power stat, which has nothing to do with will. Giving extra will to a Psi- Op is mostly pointless. Mental stability also isn't needed due to one of their skills giving them complete immunity to mind control and panic

Oh, did not realize that. Guess I was remembering old rules or something from vanilla or EW or some mod or something. Or maybe I was always wrong about psi-troopers' power gain. haha whoops, thanks for the correction.
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Date Posted: Sep 26, 2017 @ 7:26pm
Posts: 12