How often do you lose Gatecrasher Legend?

[theworld]

Any deaths = restart?

Wounds = restart?

How often do you get squad wiped?

I want to see some numbers, let me know your experience. :)

[talemore]

You can't lose gatecrasher, not even at legend. There's not a single person who have lost gatecrasher... funny trolling. In vanilla if a soldier got wounded I usually killed the rest of the squad to restart the map to make sure the specialist won't be wounded. You need a specialist because 1/3 of all missions are fetching objectives who you can't reach in time without a gremlin. On other hand the rookie who turns into the specialist wasn't harmed I continue to play because all other classes can replace each other. A rookie can throw grenades just like a grenadier except less range and kill enemies like the remaining classes. Specialist can't be replaced, it's a crucial member in almost every mission and you need to win missions to win the game.

[theworld]

If you mean that you can restart on failure, then that is correct, but also trivial.

Other than that, quite a lot of people have lost:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOI11iDbGoI

Starts at 7:30

[theworld]

Originally posted by talemore:

Specialist can't be replaced, it's a crucial member in almost every mission and you need to win missions to win the game.

I've done 3 playthroughs of WotC where I never used a single Specialist unless mission specifically indicated hackable objective.

Even then, most of the value doesn't come from remote hacking. It's from hacking stat, it can allow you to get a strategic reward you otherwise won't. If someone else was a decent hacker, I'd take them over Specialist.

[talemore]

Originally posted by KaneBlackHand:

Originally posted by talemore:

Specialist can't be replaced, it's a crucial member in almost every mission and you need to win missions to win the game.

I've done 3 playthroughs of WotC where I never used a single Specialist unless mission specifically indicated hackable objective.

Even then, most of the value doesn't come from remote hacking. It's from hacking stat, it can allow you to get a strategic reward you otherwise won't. If someone else was a decent hacker, I'd take them over Specialist.

Wotc, did I even said this was specific about wotc, no I didn't. I said in vanilla, I know how easy the game has become with wotc. Basically you won the game when you gotten a reaper because it can solo missions on its own and reapers were designed to be objective hackers, that's why them gain hacking stats later in the game. I have done many walkthroughs in vanilla and sharpshooters,grenadiers,rangers, them can all be replaced by a rookie but if your specialist dies you too are losing the hacking bonuses it had, the remote ability and medic support. There's no class who can replace the specialist, you can replace all other classes, them aren't as important.

[theworld]

I'm tempted to stream either vanilla or WotC L/I with no Reapers and no Specialists just to prove you wrong :)

[Ygolnac]

I don't see specialists a must have for the second mission.

Also reapers are very good, but they cannot really solo a mission in the beginning when they don't have remote start and banish, and every shot have an increasing chance to reveal them. This thing that WotC made the game easier is pure nonsense. It made the beginning even harder, and the already easy endgame even easier.

Yesterday I had a retaliation with the summoner chosen that spawned 4 psi zombies with 12HP every 2 turns, then the crysalids went infecting the civilian multipling themselves. And there was the lost dark event, so every time something exploded,,, including psi zombies, I had 12 losts spawning, some with 12 HP, majority with 8HP, and few with 6 or 4. To that add the "regular" mob with berserkers,, faceless,, andromedons, gatekeepers and stunlancers... And the chosen itself, immune to explosions, fires back on missed shots, teleports on wounds, summons mechs, mind controls, summons an army of 4 ghost troopers and stasis itself...

My spark was completly destroyed, my only specialist colonel slaughtered and trasformed into crysalids goo, everybody else severly wounded and traumatized for weeks. Mission failed i only saved 2 civs.

Now go solo that with a reaper, even colonel,, LMAO.

Returning to the original question: legend difficulty. If I have wounded on gatecrasher i go on. If I have 1 dead I go on. Maybe the campaign is over in the next mission, but with 1 dead and other wounded I try to go on. I had to restart the current campaign 2 times, all in the second mission. Now it's going on, and some mission I do end up soloing with a reaper colonel, but sometimes the game throws at me missions like the one described.

[learnedhand]

I've gotten lazy, so I will only restart gatecrasher if two of my squad get killed. In one of my WOTC playthroughs, I had one killed and two wounded and I still played on. This was because I also got an advanced perception mod and a scope out of that mission. Too sweet to pass up.

With WOTC, its easy to level up new troops early on and grenadiers are no longer so crucial for guaranteed damage.

I guess I probably restart gatecrasher maybe 1 out of 5 tries? Lol, I still haven't gotten the hang of the non-roof overwatch trap strategy.

On specialists, I still like them and use them as a utility infielder but they never were an every mission type class. They are still handy though for threat assessment and revival protocol (because of the chosen). Also they are a natural place to stick the Warlock's disruptor rifle.

I'd like to see a play through without rangers though. That would shake things up. Or a play though mostly bypassing weapon techs and only using the Chosen weapons.

[talemore]

Originally posted by KaneBlackHand:

I'm tempted to stream either vanilla or WotC L/I with no Reapers and no Specialists just to prove you wrong :)

You could make a playthrough where you only uses rookies at every mission, people are willing to bash their own thoughts, some says the game is unplayable and others saying skirmishers are not good because their primary weapon has a cooldown. You could for example replace medic support with phantom ranger and remote hack with a spark. People like to prove by bending on the rules. I only seen what happen when you don't play with any mods. Sometimes the amount of turns combined to reach the objective is shorter than the time-counter and there's always a pod next to the objectives, meaning if the soldiers didn't died on the next turn you are lucky. To make it be proven you must complete all objective missions without ending the turn you obtained the objective with an activated pod. Simply put you must obtain the objective without activating any pod from concealment or else RNG decided if you won the mission and pratically you could as well walked straight forward without cover if rng is on your side.

[Tiasmoon]

Originally posted by talemore:

There's no class who can replace the specialist, you can replace all other classes, them aren't as important.

There's no class that can replace them because they have nothing amazing that would need to be replaced if you took another class instead.

Originally posted by talemore:

Originally posted by KaneBlackHand:

I'm tempted to stream either vanilla or WotC L/I with no Reapers and no Specialists just to prove you wrong :)

You could make a playthrough where you only uses rookies at every mission, people are willing to bash their own thoughts, some says the game is unplayable and others saying skirmishers are not good because their primary weapon has a cooldown. You could for example replace medic support with phantom ranger and remote hack with a spark. People like to prove by bending on the rules. I only seen what happen when you don't play with any mods. Sometimes the amount of turns combined to reach the objective is shorter than the time-counter and there's always a pod next to the objectives, meaning if the soldiers didn't died on the next turn you are lucky. To make it be proven you must complete all objective missions without ending the turn you obtained the objective with an activated pod. Simply put you must obtain the objective without activating any pod from concealment or else RNG decided if you won the mission and pratically you could as well walked straight forward without cover if rng is on your side.

You don't need remote hacking at all if you can get a unit next to the objective. I don't understand why you believe those points you mention are required to ''prove'' anything. Remote hacking isnt going to get you the objective without triggering anything if you dont also have a reaper to scout, especially on most maps where a structure blocks view.

That said, specialists indeed dont bring much to the team.

[Ygolnac]

BTW, going back on topic, wich was not about specialists, my opinion is that the second mission is way more crucial than gatecrasher.

At legend difficulty some second missions are just unwinnable, even if you had 0 wounded and 0 killed on gatecrasher. If you get a "protect the device" it was a "lucky" one, since enemies don't deal much dmg to the device you have 5-6 turns to get there. And there's nothing to hack for the objective.

Kill the enemy sergent in sewers is where I failed most times. You have got 4 turns after conceleament loss and the sergent has a crapton of HP.

Sometimes in hack the device there are a lot of troubles too, the device is behind walls without los so you cannot hack from distance, and between you and the device there are many pods.

If you get past that and left lost and abandoned active that's your 3rd mission, it's usually doable also becouse it has always the same map, and grants you a free reaper and a crapton of experience for the soldiers.

[learnedhand]

Originally posted by Ygolnac:

BTW, going back on topic, wich was not about specialists, my opinion is that the second mission is way more crucial than gatecrasher.

At legend difficulty some second missions are just unwinnable, even if you had 0 wounded and 0 killed on gatecrasher. If you get a "protect the device" it was a "lucky" one, since enemies don't deal much dmg to the device you have 5-6 turns to get there. And there's nothing to hack for the objective.

Kill the enemy sergent in sewers is where I failed most times. You have got 4 turns after conceleament loss and the sergent has a crapton of HP.

Sometimes in hack the device there are a lot of troubles too, the device is behind walls without los so you cannot hack from distance, and between you and the device there are many pods.

If you get past that and left lost and abandoned active that's your 3rd mission, it's usually doable also becouse it has always the same map, and grants you a free reaper and a crapton of experience for the soldiers.

Agreed, I think WOTC made gatecrasher less important than getting your first engineer. Also, the first lost mission gives a bad start a pause, allowing you to turn things around and not have them snowball.

[Ygolnac]

Originally posted by learnedhand:

Agreed, I think WOTC made gatecrasher less important than getting your first engineer. Also, the first lost mission gives a bad start a pause, allowing you to turn things around and not have them snowball.

Yup, I'm doing my first legend campaign, I usually can make gatecrasher with a wounded or two, then I had to restart 2 times for the second mission where i got a wipe or a mission failure.

Third try i had one kia in the second mission that was a protect the device, then lost and abandoned put me back on tracks with a crapton of xp and a nice reaper.

If you disable lost and abandoned you start with a faction hero, but your third mission is a retaliation with a guaranteed chosen in it. That must be an hell more difficult and will try next campaign.

[learnedhand]

Originally posted by Ygolnac:

Originally posted by learnedhand:

Agreed, I think WOTC made gatecrasher less important than getting your first engineer. Also, the first lost mission gives a bad start a pause, allowing you to turn things around and not have them snowball.

Yup, I'm doing my first legend campaign, I usually can make gatecrasher with a wounded or two, then I had to restart 2 times for the second mission where i got a wipe or a mission failure.

Third try i had one kia in the second mission that was a protect the device, then lost and abandoned put me back on tracks with a crapton of xp and a nice reaper.

If you disable lost and abandoned you start with a faction hero, but your third mission is a retaliation with a guaranteed chosen in it. That must be an hell more difficult and will try next campaign.

Yeah, the first retaliation mission is a lot harder without lost and abandoned, but there is no real penalty to just evac-ing out of it, so its not a big deal unless you are going for a no failed missions run.

[Aranador]

Fail Gatecrasher? No. Have 3/4 of my squad in the hospital for 3 weeks? All the time. My current playthrough is Legendary+Beta strike, and the gun battles it produces are epic, as are the hospital queues.

[Ozymandias]

Gatecrasher is one of my favorite missions. A lot of the time, with careful planning, you can get through it flawlessly. It is even easier now in WOTC because you may optionally start with a faction ally.

Usually, if I reset a campaign, it is around the time that snakes appear because I didn't get decent research in the early game.