How does the Fatigue-system even WORK?

[BlackDragon]

I'm getting increasingly fed up with the Fatigue-system. Not because I have to let my troops rest between missions - that makes perfect sense, encourages mixing up your teams a bit instead of always using the same 6 dudes, and is something I'm already familiar with from playing Long War.

I just cannot make any SENSE of the way Fatigue accrues. Some characters seem to get utterly exhausted very, very quickly, while others can take the same missions, the same battles, in a stride, never even breaking a sweat. I expected to get the 'Weary Warriors' achievement pretty much naturally, but I can't even make it work DELIBERATELY. I've currently got a save at the end of a mission where half the team is tired - some of them at the edge of exhaustion - but the other three are just a bit shy of 'Tired' status, and there appears to be NO WAY to actually lower their stamina before evacuating them. Running around? Doesn't make you tired. Using abilities? Doesn't make you tired. Presumably, shooting at and getting shot at by aliens DOES make you tired, but that can't be all there is to it...

Has ANYONE managed to find any kind of logic or sense in the way this system works? I really would appreciate some clues, 'cuz as it is, it's just driving me crazy...

[Cake]

If you want the weary warriors achieve, you have to start a mission with all tired soldiers. I did mine on an advent blacksite, run in, set a bomb, run out. Pretty easy

[.O.]

from what I can tell, you're tired when your will drains to below half. Your will drains when you get hurt or your bondmate gets hurt or other soldiers get hurt, or the chosen shows up.

[BlackDragon]

But Weary Warriors specifically requires you to end the battle WITHOUT CASUALTIES. Nobody can get hurt. As for starting battles with already-tired soldiers, that seems like a great way to wind up with one or more Shaken soldiers at the end, which ALSO invalidates the achievement and takes FOREVER to recover from. (Two weeks, often +5 days for clearing the resulting negative trait.)

[.O.]

but if you start with 6 tired soldiers, blow up a wall, plant X4 then evac, your will shouldn't drop by much right? So you won't get any shaken.

[norker77]

I checked the games files and the way it works is really strange. After a mission your characters can be in three different states: shaken, tired and ready.

The recovery times are:
ready 0-16 days
tired 8-12 days
shaken 14-20 days

A soldier is considered ready after a mission if his current will is better then 67% of maximum will. Tired is 33-66% and shaken is below 33%.

Tired and shaken match my experience, not sure what the ready recovery time is (Maybe the time to fully regain maximum will?). It does look like an error slipped in there, 0-6 would fit the progression better.

(all data from GameData.ini)

[Timbermaw]

Originally posted by norker77:

I checked the games files and the way it works is really strange. After a mission your characters can be in three different states: shaken, tired and ready.

The recovery times are:
ready 0-16 days
tired 8-12 days
shaken 14-20 days

A soldier is considered ready after a mission if his current will is better then 67% of maximum will. Tired is 33-66% and shaken is below 33%.

Tired and shaken match my experience, not sure what the ready recovery time is (Maybe the time to fully regain maximum will?). It does look like an error slipped in there, 0-6 would fit the progression better.

(all data from GameData.ini)

Wound recovery times are also kinds borked in vanilla. Lightly wounded can spend more time than gravely wounded depending on your rolls, so I'd say it's some kind of design decision by firaxis.

[BlackDragon]

Originally posted by .O.:

but if you start with 6 tired soldiers, blow up a wall, plant X4 then evac, your will shouldn't drop by much right? So you won't get any shaken.

Potentially... but I've certainly missed my opportunity to do so on this run. There's only one facility left on the map, and it's being guarded by an Alien King.

Incidentally, I've made an observation that might explain SOME of the variance in how quickly soldiers get fatigued... all three of the 'un-tired' soldiers from the example I mentioned in the OP had some form of Light Armor, if one assumed that Skirmisher Armor is counted as light. (Which would make sense, from a programming-standpoint - the attached grappling-hook indicates that it's based on the Spider-suit.) My Grenadier, wearing Heavy Armor, was the most exhausted soldier on the team. So, at the very least, Light and Heavy Armor modify the rate you lose Willpower at. My theory - still untested - is that moving DOES sap Willpower, in small amount, when you're wearing Medium and Heavy (probably more in Heavy) Armor, but that wearing Light Armor removes that drain.

[BlackDragon]

...well, after some experimentation, I'm still not sure what's going on. Armor SEEMS to be involved, I GUESS, but even when running a mission with 6 guys wearing Medium Armor, they all wind up losing very different ammounts of Will. Attacking more seems to cause more loss, but even THAT isn't solid, so much as a vague tendency.

I've basically given up on actually understanding how it works, for now. I got the Weary Warriors achievement, following Cake's strategy, more or less. Went into a Blacksite with a single Reaper at half Will, snuck past everything, set up the bomb and evac'd out without ever being spotted. The achievement awards even if you 'team' consists of a SINGLE weary warrior, apparently. (Then I reloaded my save from before embarking so that I could bring a fireteam and fight the Alien Ruler guarding the instalation instead of sneaking past it.)

[drake_hound]

It is a complex system that is based on will with a lot of variables like actions taken, turn used incoming fire etc.

But the simple explanation would be. do not do 2 mission in a row with the same troops in 7 days. and things will be fine. the chosen stronghold assault usually makes troops tired.

But even then you can push them one more mission if absolutely needed. then they get a chance of random negative traits.
If will drops below half.

[kingsims]

Your answer to this is: Spark

They are immune to injury and fatiuge. They don't care if their arm is damaged.. With the spark bit they can also get 2 free repairs per mission.

Give them superior expanded mag + Superior scope and they can wreck stuff. Give them threat assment then they get an inaite 50% high cover with a free overwatch shot. Anything that shoots at them will either miss or if does land will either be negated by the armour. They are immune to fire/posion/bound/daze/mind control as well. Organic PSI will not hurt them.

[June]

According to the wiki, Fatigue is based on Will: under certain conditions (NOT actions), soldiers lose will equal to WillLossStat * WillLossStatMultiplier (with a minimum of MinimumWillLoss). I assume these values come from the game files somewhere. Soldiers become Tired at 66% Will and Shaken at 33% Will.

The following causes will loss:
* Seeing an enemy unit (50% chance, cannot reduce Will to 0, maximum 33% will loss per mission)
* Seeing a civilian die (maximum 25% will loss per mission)
* Being wounded
* Seeing a squad member die, be captured, be panicked, or fall unconscious
* Whatever "HorrorM1WillRollData" refers to (800% chance)