Help me understand what is the wokeness in this game.

[moonlightavenger]

There is a woman and she is a lesbian. Is that it?

You play with Indy, the game treats the characters and the lore with respect, the gameplay is good and the story is good.

What is the problem?

Edit: the game doesn't even censor nazi symbols, and treats them as villains in the same vein as the movies (the good ones).

[moonlightavenger]

Originally posted by fourfourtwo79:

There's a woman that addresses you without permission.

This made me laugh so hard when I remembered Clan of the Cave Bear, by Jean M. Auel.

[***]

it lacks player freedom of choice, if you could at least pick your side and help the germans, would be better game ngl

[Shadow Hawk B3]

Originally posted by Shadow Hawk B3:

Originally posted by ᛈᚢᛒᚲᚱᚨᛚᚱ13:

Please stop using the term "Americans" so broadly. The vast majority of us agree with you.

What majority want to buy games from people who despise you? People who reject those who said no, argue Stellar Blade models are not real people and NYC residents in a video about Stellar Blade say if people are attract to adults then it CP. The idea people should accept that is zero.

People who are woke was shown Eve from Stelllar Blade and confuse the real life model as a 8 years old girl. Meanwhile people who defend w0keness say there are the ONLY one body type for adult women and it unrealistic to oppose it. Anti-woke must mean people want unrealistic women in video games and people should be ashamed by attract to unrealistic women.

[Waldo]

Originally posted by VHS NEON:

Originally posted by Shrinkshooter:

To answer your question, I've only thus far seen evidence of two "woke" things: a one-off comment by some Nazi badguy and the lesbian.

For the first, it's some badguy leader who says, in effect, "Nothing is easier to manipulate than an insecure male." Which is pretty immersion breaking simply because it sounds like it jumped straight out of the screed of some bitter man-hating feminist. Now, a Nazi propagandist certainly could express this general sentiment, but not in these terms, and at the very least it'd be more fitting to just say "person" or "people" or talk about fear as well, not singling out men. We've seen the kinds of people that unironically say this repeatedly in modern day, so we know what kind of person put this line in the game and why.

For the woman: it isn't that the inclusion of a lesbian is itself an issue, it's how she's treated. Her orientation is treated in an extremely cavalier and casual way that absolutely would have been wildly out of place for the late 1930s. Characters speak about it as if they're cosmopolitan socialites from a coastal city in 2024, and not people who are living in a time with entirely different attitudes and conventions.

Outside of those two things, I haven't seen evidence of anything else. Indy's sidekick is a "your mileage may vary," I've seen some complaints that she girlbosses all over the place as a kind of take-that to men. Depends on your perception

That's nonsese. While gay people were treated extremly awful, they weren't treated like that by every one. Liberal and open minded people existed back then and even earlier during Oscar Wilds time. It would not have been impossible to find a group of like minded people that have zero issues with her being a lesbian. And in this game you are playing a man that is constantly in wild situations and hangs out with all kinds of people. So even just within the context of Indiana Jones it's not unrealistic at all.

As for the Nazi thing, he's a manipulative Nazi. Such phrases as "insecure male" are not a modern invention, they've been around for ages.

True. Indiana Jones surrounded himself with lesbians so much that they never made any on screen appearances

[tyrant1224]

Originally posted by ᛈᚢᛒᚲᚱᚨᛚᚱ13:

At no point in the game does it state or even imply that she's a lesbian.

Maybe they are referring to Guliana and Nawal. They were most definitely romantically involved in the past, but grew apart for one reason or another. But it was talked about so briefly that it would be easy to miss.

[VHS NEON]

Originally posted by Waldo:

Originally posted by VHS NEON:

That's nonsese. While gay people were treated extremly awful, they weren't treated like that by every one. Liberal and open minded people existed back then and even earlier during Oscar Wilds time. It would not have been impossible to find a group of like minded people that have zero issues with her being a lesbian. And in this game you are playing a man that is constantly in wild situations and hangs out with all kinds of people. So even just within the context of Indiana Jones it's not unrealistic at all.

As for the Nazi thing, he's a manipulative Nazi. Such phrases as "insecure male" are not a modern invention, they've been around for ages.

True. Indiana Jones surrounded himself with lesbians so much that they never made any on screen appearances

You should learn to properly read before replying. Clearly you didn't get it.
One of Indies best friends was an arab muslim, a nazi killing woman, a chinese kid, a whole village of Indians and a crap ton of other people.
And yet you can't handle lesbians?

[Shrinkshooter]

Originally posted by VHS NEON:

That's nonsese.

No it isn't. You are making counterarguments to statements I never said and your reading comprehension is bad. Nowhere did I claim liberal people didn't exist, or that everyone would have major problems with her orientation, or whether gay people were treated awfully which has nothing to do with my point. Learn to understand points being made.

Open discussion about homosexuality in day to day life as if you were talking about the weather was not a common occurrence in the late 1930s. At best, it would be at "don't ask, don't tell" level in general situations, and more lenient in places expected to cater to certain tastes (e.g. speakeasies, as implied by their very name). It simply would not have come up unless in very specific circumstances, as opposed to the writers of the script throwing it in there for no reason just to make it obvious.

As for the Nazi thing, he's a manipulative Nazi. Such phrases as "insecure male" are not a modern invention, they've been around for ages.

It's unnecessarily exclusionary and targeted. It is a direct and intentional jab against men. They could simply have used "person" or "people" -- after all, females rate far higher in conformity than men, and therefore far more easily influenced by social conventions -- but you never, ever see or hear the phrase "insecure females" or "insecure women." It only ever cuts one way, and we both know why. And the phrase "insecure male" is not a modern "invention," it is a modern trendy concept. Huge difference. We both know what it is and you're choosing to play dumb and hide behind plausible deniability. They didn't throw that phrase in there just because it's Nazi villain worldbuilding, and it just so happens it "accidentally" sounds like something I'd hear at the liberal arts college campus down the road.

[VHS NEON]

Originally posted by Shrinkshooter:

Originally posted by VHS NEON:

That's nonsese.

No it isn't. You are making counterarguments to statements I never said and your reading comprehension is bad. Nowhere did I claim liberal people didn't exist, or that everyone would have major problems with her orientation, or whether gay people were treated awfully which has nothing to do with my point. Learn to understand points being made.

Open discussion about homosexuality in day to day life as if you were talking about the weather was not a common occurrence in the late 1930s. At best, it would be at "don't ask, don't tell" level in general situations, and more lenient in places expected to cater to certain tastes (e.g. speakeasies, as implied by their very name). It simply would not have come up unless in very specific circumstances, as opposed to the writers of the script throwing it in there for no reason just to make it obvious.

As for the Nazi thing, he's a manipulative Nazi. Such phrases as "insecure male" are not a modern invention, they've been around for ages.

It's unnecessarily exclusionary and targeted. It is a direct and intentional jab against men. They could simply have used "person" or "people" -- after all, females rate far higher in conformity than men, and therefore far more easily influenced by social conventions -- but you never, ever see or hear the phrase "insecure females" or "insecure women." It only ever cuts one way, and we both know why. And the phrase "insecure male" is not a modern "invention," it is a modern trendy concept. Huge difference. We both know what it is and you're choosing to play dumb and hide behind plausible deniability. They didn't throw that phrase in there just because it's Nazi villain worldbuilding, and it just so happens it "accidentally" sounds like something I'd hear at the liberal arts college campus down the road.

Not really and I'd suggest you red up on actual gay history rather than spread your right wing drivel.
It's a fantasy game, part of a franchise where ghosts and gods exist. Yet openly lesbian characters are unbelievable? Not faces magically melting, not indy surviving a nuklear blast in a fridge, not people ripping hearts out with their bare hands etc. But specifically the fact that the game dares to portray lesbians and have them be open about it?
Yeah it's pretty sus don't you think?

And no that Insecure male phrase is not out of place at all, within the context of his conversation. But sure, if you wanna overanalyze the words of a Nazi then go ahead I guess...

[Shrinkshooter]

Originally posted by VHS NEON:

Not really and I'd suggest you red up on actual gay history rather than spread your right wing drivel.

This isn't an argument and doesn't counter anything I said. You're just going "nuh uh" and sticking your fingers in your ears. I need to read up on history according to someone who spells "read" incorrectly?

It's a fantasy game, part of a franchise where ghosts and gods exist. Yet openly lesbian characters are unbelievable?

Once again, I DID NOT say that. Anywhere. Once again, your reading comprehension is bad. VERY bad. Rather than read text on the screen that's there, you interpret something as an attack against a deeply held belief you have and react in a juvenile and kneejerk emotional fashion. Stop doing this. Either respond to things I actually said and explain EXACTLY how they are incorrect or stop posting. I suspect you actually do not know anything whatsoever about American History or anything else you're talking about.

You're committing another strawman right out of the gate and just like everything else it doesn't address the point I made -- twice. I repeated it for your edification and your response is "pfft what you can't believe gay people exist?"

In conclusion you're either very low IQ or you're intentionally trolling. You want me to reply to you again, then actually address the arguments of the previous posts. Otherwise, I'm correct, you're not, learn to read and write correctly.

[CurrySpirals]

Originally posted by AnihilatoR:

Originally posted by AdahnGorion:

it does have some modern society trends in it, but that is rather normal and nothing weird.

Overall its a modern take on Indiana Jones, we see this every few generations.

This shouldn't be here since it's doesn't fit the background, its just forced political crap. Better leave that out or make games for a specific public. That's just messed up.

True. There were no lesbians in the 1930s.

[The Gentle Spirit]

Originally posted by VHS NEON:

There's nothing woke about it. Some people just can't handle the fact that a fictitious fantasy adventure game has black people, non submissive women and LGBTQ charatcers. Because those things are of course way more unrealistic than the Holy Ark releasing ghosts and melting faces or a dude in Temple Of Doom ripping hearts out with his bare hands. Or indy surviving a nuklear blast in a fridge.

But sure, god forbid there are lesbians in this game. That make it totally unrealistic...

I only take issue with the believability of said lesbian relationship. Particularly the reveal, Bit jarring for the time period.
Good job on Bethesda placing that well beyond the refund period.

[Buddy Christ]

If you think there was no lesbians or queer people in general in the 1930's you need to get a refund on your school payment.

Queer people have been around MUCH earlier than 1930's. I can't believe I have to tell you this. Feels like I'm talking to 12 year olds here!

[xbradx]

Every time we see all the crying about "DEI/woke" popping up in every game's boards these days, it's just the thinly veiled, repackaged "great replacement" theory nonsense.

[xbradx]

Originally posted by ***:

it lacks player freedom of choice, if you could at least pick your side and help the germans, would be better game ngl

you know, being so openly pro-Nazi in a message board for a game, based on a film where a good amount of time is spent punching and k*lling Nazis isn't the win you think it is.

[xbradx]

Originally posted by Fredwick:

Originally posted by Spectrum Fox:

I feel sorry for the people who go through life judging if something is "woke" or not, and then using that completely subjective categorization to determine their own enjoyment of it.

What a sad and useless existence.

This is literally the boy cries "wolf" scenario. They cry so much about "wokism". The word lost its meaning and now, more and more people just treat it as noise.

It's funny how Indiana Jones might be a crucial part of this anti-grift crusade as they got it so wrong this time.

This is the way it's gone for many, many years. "Politically correct, SJW, woke, DEI" and more going back to the early days of Rush Limbaugh and birth of Fox News have always been used to sew division and hatred in the US. Hell a lot of T-dog's stump speeches were torn out of Goebbels playbook of demonizing immigrants, LGBTQ+, etc. The wealthy use their mouthpieces to convince those willing to listen that someone "lesser" is to blame for all of their, and society's problems. Just look at Tim Pool recently being paid by Russian elites to spread division here. Good old divide and conquer. A lot of these youtube alt-right grifters pushing this noise today just learned they can make more money doing it. They hammer a specific talking point, or game in this case, until it becomes stale and numbers stagnate, then they move on to the next target to get their numbers back up. I'm sure most of the right wing youtube grift-o-sphere are already looking for the next target since Indiana Jones doesn't have much fodder for them beyond the odd "punching Nazis=bad" take.