So, about that Path Tracing

[FLKttn]

I think I'll hold off on it until the 5090 releases next year.

This just doesn't seem worth it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDuk2RlO2nU

[Shapely Twig]

The path tracing is good in this game but it's subtle and not as noticeable as the crazy reflections in Cyberpunk or the realistically smooth shadows and diffused lighting in Alan Wake 2.

You should hold off for the 5090, but only because the 4090 is being price gouged.

[FLKttn]

Originally posted by Shapely Twig:

The path tracing is good in this game but it's subtle and not as noticeable as the crazy reflections in Cyberpunk or the realistically smooth shadows and diffused lighting in Alan Wake 2.

You should hold off on the 5090, but only because the 4090 is being price gouged.

You didn't watch the video, did you?

I'm looking at it right now. With a 4090. Which I'll be swapping for a 5090 asap.

I don't care about prices.

[Blacksmith77K]

And in Khaimuk Saksit at the latest, it becomes unplayable with path tracing.

What no one talks about is that all the reflections on the waterways in Khaimuk Saksit are just screen space reflections, despite path tracing being activated.

[CatPerson]

I think full pathtracing won't be "worth it" - performance/hardware upkeep wise I mean - for 99.6% of folks, until maybe 3-4 more gpu/hardware generations + multiple more AAA-game release "devs trying to push up boundries" cycles. And for 4k, maybe longer.

I can tolerate DLSS at Quality vs. true native, but anything more than that makes me go "ugh/no". For me, not worth trying to keep up with it, yet. But I could see a future where it might be.

[Carighan]

Honestly it looks good though. If you can run it, it's a nice upgrade.

Games vary, for example in Cyberpunk 2077 it adds a lot despite technically not being used well. But extremely overblown reflections and lighting fit a cyberpunk-asthetic. In A Plague Tale 2, other than maybe in the outside sections with the flower fields (where PT tanks your performance hard) it looks better with baked lighting which is less realistic but fits the mood of each scene really really well.
In Indiana Jones it's somewhere in the middle, IMO. Gizeh in particular looks fantastic with PT turned on because it augments how solarized everything feels. Indoor sections with lit windows in the Vatican are also great. OTOH plenty main indoor sections look better with just RTGI and PT off, using baked light sources for indoor lights.

PT is quite artificial after all, so the more "natural" you want a scene to look, the more weird it'll end up looking. But "natural" is in quotation marks for a reason, natural for the mood and effect of the scene, not what is hyperrealistic to real life.

[td_games]

Hallo zusammen. Hab Pathtracing auch in verschiedenen Szenen getestet und muss sagen ich habe es deaktiviert. Grund ist der enorme Performance Verlust gepaart mit zu hohen vram bedarf. Zudem ist mir aufgefallen das manche Bereiche im Spiel extrem hell und unnatürlich wirken. Schatten vom Fenster werden gar nicht dargestellt und Spiegelungen fehlen teilweise komplett an den Böden in Gebäuden oder auch außerhalb. Teilweise wirken auch die Texturen an der Decke im ersten richtigen Level wo er den Einbruch aufgedecken muss sehr verwaschen. Die Schatten sehen allerdings etwas besser aus mit Pathtracing. Es benötigt meiner Meinung nach eine 5090 für perfekte Performance.

[Mendo Shutaro]

Path tracing absolutely nails the CPU, even more so than the GPU. If you don't have a VERY high end CPU then even a 4090 isn't going to save you here.

Frame Gen could be the sticking plaster but there's no NVidia Reflex, and going from a 30fps base is very laggy and basically unplayable.

It's too bad as the path tracing looks great, it's the cherry on top which really gels the scene together.

It's worth noting though that turning off Low Latency Mode in the NVidia Control Panel both frees up a lot of CPU resources (and so raises the base frame rate with path tracing from 30fps to about 45fps), and it fixes the horrible frame pacing bug with DLSS 3 frame generation. So whilst it's still laggy, it at least generates correctly paced frames.

[FLKttn]

Originally posted by Mendo Shutaro:

Path tracing absolutely nails the CPU, even more so than the GPU. If you don't have a VERY high end CPU then even a 4090 isn't going to save you here.

Frame Gen could be the sticking plaster but there's no NVidia Reflex, and going from a 30fps base is very laggy and basically unplayable.

It's too bad as the path tracing looks great, it's the cherry on top which really gels the scene together.

It's worth noting though that turning off Low Latency Mode in the NVidia Control Panel both frees up a lot of CPU resources (and so raises the base frame rate with path tracing from 30fps to about 45fps), and it fixes the horrible frame pacing bug with DLSS 3 frame generation. So whilst it's still laggy, it at least generates correctly paced frames.

I do wish people would actually watch the video before going off on some rambling nonsense.

The CPU is clearly visible in the overlay. It's a 285k - so only really beaten in gaming by the 9800/7800x3ds, and tied with a 14900k for performance.

And the *entire point* of the video is testing DLAA, DLSS and FrameGen with various RT-settings.

So, you know, directly addressing your post before you even wrote it.

Originally posted by Carighan:

Honestly it looks good though. If you can run it, it's a nice upgrade.

That's the joke. Nobody _can_ run it. The post and the video is a tongue-in-cheek comment about how I'm not really tempted to go from ~100fps to ~30 just for Path Tracing.

[MacLe0d]

Originally posted by FLKttn:

That's the joke. Nobody _can_ run it. The post and the video is a tongue-in-cheek comment about how I'm not really tempted to go from ~100fps to ~30 just for Path Tracing.

It's up to you.
I liked the picture with Full RT in the game. Even if I had to use FrameGen, the latency is not critical for such slow-paced games. I would rather enjoy the visuals, getting frames between 70 and 120 in different areas. :)
Same for Silent Hill2 Remake. The game looked great with forced Path Tracing via configfile.

[C4ACTbE]

Originally posted by Blacksmith77K:

And in Khaimuk Saksit at the latest, it becomes unplayable with path tracing.

What no one talks about is that all the reflections on the waterways in Khaimuk Saksit are just screen space reflections, despite path tracing being activated.

Yea, those screen space reflections in water in dark makes very bad experience despite Full RTX being ON. First time I found it, I was shocked and did not believe that devs left it. Lowering down Reflection settings to low helps, but other scenes become worse in that game. I wish Indi Jones devs will make dedicated switch setting letting turn off those screen space reflections, similar as Cyberpunk devs did.
Watching cyberpunk game recordings where all settings maxed out makes me laugh as those screen space reflections looks really bad.

[EricHVela]

I kinda expected more from the 5000 series after the 4000 series. I'll probably wait for the 6000 series instead.

[Dagtag]

Originally posted by EricHVela:

I kinda expected more from the 5000 series after the 4000 series. I'll probably wait for the 6000 series instead.

Well, don’t expect the 6000 series to have any significant raw performance improvement. The 5000 series already offers huge advantages despite the raw performance cap we have hit.

[Mav99]

Originally posted by FLKttn:

That's the joke. Nobody _can_ run it. The post and the video is a tongue-in-cheek comment about how I'm not really tempted to go from ~100fps to ~30 just for Path Tracing.

Apparently you're one of those people who think an RTX 4090 would entitle them to run EVERYTHING at absolutely maxed out settings at 4k with 100+ FPS. Well, you CAN'T. Not any more. And without using multi frame generation, a 5090 will apparently not really change that either...

I have a Ryzen 5900X with 32GB RAM and a factory overclocked RTX 4070 Ti Super and I can play with "FullRT" path tracing quite well. My current display is an older professional NEC monitor with 1920x1200@60Hz. I have everything at maximum except Texture Pool and Shadows, DLAA(!) and Frame Generation and the frame rate really never dropped below 80fps so far. Inside it's mostly WAY above 100fps. DLSS does NOT improve the frame rate so I can stick with DLAA. I usually don't like FrameGen and prefer using (adaptive) VSync but since this game is rather slow paced it's fine here. And I thinks it's worth it. Looks so much better than the simpler ray-traced global illumination.
I can get above 60fps with FullRT and NO path tracing if I lower the vegetation animation setting below the RT settings a notch or two...

Using an older driver, 565.9, so far, and no HDR, I had no issues whatsoever with DLSS/DLAA or FrameGen.

Right now I'm re-installing Cyberpunk to try and check out DLSS 4 with that game and Indy using the Cyberpunk DLLs and the 571.96 beta driver, that you can find with the latest CUDA package...

Edit:
A little update. Indy works well with 571.96 and DLSS 4 DLLs so far. Just been testing a bit in the Vatican, Courtyard, Gardens and the frame rates are actually a little better, almost always above 90fps. DLSS Profile J (Transformer Model) has been enabled through nVidia Profile inspector, but I think that's not even necessary. Just replacing the DLLs enables it as default. The slight fps increase might also be the newer driver though.
Because in Cyberpunk enabling DLSS 4 Transformer model comes with a slight performance hit. With path tracing and ray reconstruction the internal benchmark drops from an average 78fps to 75fps...

[FLKttn]

Originally posted by Mav99:

Originally posted by FLKttn:

That's the joke. Nobody _can_ run it. The post and the video is a tongue-in-cheek comment about how I'm not really tempted to go from ~100fps to ~30 just for Path Tracing.

Apparently you're one of those people who think an RTX 4090 would entitle them to run EVERYTHING at absolutely maxed out settings at 4k with 100+ FPS.

@Mav99

Apparently you are one of those people who can not read.

It's literally in the post you quoted. Here, I'll re-quote it for you:
"*The post and the video is a tongue-in-cheek comment*"

It's funny. Get it? Like, "haha, look at how this runs".

I'll be here, not holding my breath for when you own up to what a dingus you just were and apologize. It's baffling how 'tards and autists who can't read sarcasm or pick up on facetiousness think they can jsut go online and throw their mental and social incompetence in otherpeople's faces like this.

I am actually the complete opposite of what you think. I *LOVE* when games run like ♥♥♥♥, because I want developers to push the hardware limits and not be held back by console ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

I *LOVE* that CP2077 runs at 20 fps with full PT - and I am first in line to buy three (read: 3) 5090 cards, as fast as I can get my hands on them.

Don't try to lecture me. Drop the anonymity, come on Discord and let's compare credentials directly. I'm smarter than you. Period. I'll bet you $500 in Steam-gifts of your choice on it.

[Mav99]

Originally posted by FLKttn:

It's funny. Get it? Like, "haha, look at how this runs".

What's funny about that? Especially on a 4090 you can get MUCH better performance with FullRT with the right settings, so the joke's rather on you.

Originally posted by FLKttn:

I am actually the complete opposite of what you think. I *LOVE* when games run like ♥♥♥♥, because I want developers to push the hardware limits and not be held back by console ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

That's great, but not apparent from your previous comments...

Originally posted by FLKttn:

and I am first in line to buy three (read: 3) 5090 cards, as fast as I can get my hands on them.

Judging by the reviews I watched, you might be disappointed. It's faster, alright, but only by about 25 to 30% unless you use the new multi frame generation... Larger VRAM might also help a bit since your video shows that your settings are completely filling the 24GB on your current card. One of the reasons why it's not running that well. And if you're willing to use FrameGen you can already get pretty good performance out of your current 4090...