This game is ruined by pointless fetshquest and backtracking

[Nihil]

Love the atmosphere of the game and the general story and the acting is spot on. But so sad to see a potentially masterpiece of a game being ruined by time waster content.

Why did Indie got downgraded to an errand boy?
Why do i have to do pointless collectible and letter hunting which have zero relevancy to the story but need them to evolve my skills?
Wy is the game designed like a freaking Lego game that i have to re-visit already visited locations just to finish some pointless side quests or collect some collectible which was locked till that point?

Why or earth are there even side quests in an Indiana Jones game in the first place?
Was it so hard just to give us an adventure game with puzzles and exotic places while going along a well written and delivered story?
At this point i'm risking it that even Deadfall Adventure or The strange brigade are better treasure hunting adventure games than this one. :(

[GAMING_Alligator]

Just ignore the side quests and just focus on the main story. Most of them don't even give you a good reward.

[Spiegel]

I almost never do the collecting type quests in games. I pay to have fun, not to work. Do the quests that seems fun, leave the rest.

[GAMING_Alligator]

Originally posted by Spiegel:

I almost never do the collecting type quests in games. I pay to have fun, not to work. Do the quests that seems fun, leave the rest.

The worst one I've ever seen was in Far Cry 5. You just won a major battle to clear out a bunch of terrorists from some village, and then someone asks you to help them plant their potatoes. Like, plant your own damn potatoes, what do I look like?!

I sometimes wonder if people making these games get set a target for the amount of content they have to include, and they just run out of ideas.

[Nihil]

Originally posted by GAMING_Alligator:

Originally posted by Spiegel:

I almost never do the collecting type quests in games. I pay to have fun, not to work. Do the quests that seems fun, leave the rest.

The worst one I've ever seen was in Far Cry 5. You just won a major battle to clear out a bunch of terrorists from some village, and then someone asks you to help them plant their potatoes. Like, plant your own damn potatoes, what do I look like?!

I sometimes wonder if people making these games get set a target for the amount of content they have to include, and they just run out of ideas.

THIS!
Same feeling.
But sadly i'm convinced these crapfests are only in games to extend gametime so the devs can then brag about how much content their games have and to justify the price.
But always forget that less is often more.

Originally posted by GAMING_Alligator:

Just ignore the side quests and just focus on the main story. Most of them don't even give you a good reward.

Originally posted by Spiegel:

I almost never do the collecting type quests in games. I pay to have fun, not to work. Do the quests that seems fun, leave the rest.

Yeah i know that's an option but then you have the feeling "what if i missed something good" or can't experience the game in it's full extend when not being able to get to the good gear or skills.
It's like playing Doom with a pistol only and never picking up a better gun.

[HeideKnight]

The game has a couple of big open space areas and one of the appeals this has is to go and explore them without following any guide or using the map. In this way finding a collectible like a book (that can be used to extend Indy's abilities) feels rewarding, rather than going through a checklist using the map markers.

That being said, it is all up to you. If you don't like the exploration you can also just follow the main mission. But with this approach you may miss a lot of good optional missions in the game.

[Spiegel]

Originally posted by Nihil:

Originally posted by Spiegel:

I almost never do the collecting type quests in games. I pay to have fun, not to work. Do the quests that seems fun, leave the rest.

Yeah i know that's an option but then you have the feeling "what if i missed something good" or can't experience the game in it's full extend when not being able to get to the good gear or skills.
It's like playing Doom with a pistol only and never picking up a better gun.

FOMO almost ruined gaming for me some years ago. I quit playing for a number of years becouse gaming felt more like a chore than fun. Now i do what i like in games and i have more fun than ever.

[Spiegel]

Originally posted by GAMING_Alligator:

Originally posted by Spiegel:

I almost never do the collecting type quests in games. I pay to have fun, not to work. Do the quests that seems fun, leave the rest.

The worst one I've ever seen was in Far Cry 5. You just won a major battle to clear out a bunch of terrorists from some village, and then someone asks you to help them plant their potatoes. Like, plant your own damn potatoes, what do I look like?!

I sometimes wonder if people making these games get set a target for the amount of content they have to include, and they just run out of ideas.

Yeah, i have had to find a mindset that i dont need to do every "quest" in a game. I am satisfied if i completed a game and had fun doing it.

[HeideKnight]

Originally posted by Spiegel:

Originally posted by GAMING_Alligator:

The worst one I've ever seen was in Far Cry 5. You just won a major battle to clear out a bunch of terrorists from some village, and then someone asks you to help them plant their potatoes. Like, plant your own damn potatoes, what do I look like?!

I sometimes wonder if people making these games get set a target for the amount of content they have to include, and they just run out of ideas.

Yeah, i have had to find a mindset that i dont need to do every "quest" in a game. I am satisfied if i completed a game and had fun doing it.

Me, too. This also involves that I don't care anymore whether or not I am following an optimised path through the game, which is almost impossible without using an external guide. But it takes away the joy of finding things on my own, which is now way more precious for me than completing the game with the best possible outcome.

It is not a deal in this game, because it doesn't have a lot of RPG elements. But in the final boss fight I could have profitted of a little more health if I had found more of the medicine bottles, surely.

[Nihil]

Originally posted by HeideKnight:

Originally posted by Spiegel:

Yeah, i have had to find a mindset that i dont need to do every "quest" in a game. I am satisfied if i completed a game and had fun doing it.

Me, too. This also involves that I don't care anymore whether or not I am following an optimised path through the game, which is almost impossible without using an external guide. But it takes away the joy of finding things on my own, which is now way more precious for me than completing the game with the best possible outcome.

It is not a deal in this game, because it doesn't have a lot of RPG elements. But in the final boss fight I could have profitted of a little more health if I had found more of the medicine bottles, surely.

Yeah but finding things on your own is one thing and satisfying. Needing to to from A to B than to A again to go to C and then Back to B then to A and back again to B just to be able to find something on C which allows you to finish the task on A is annoying as hell even if i'm the one who figured that out. If i explore and figure out things i like to do it when it actually matters. But finding some thorn down letter which has some stock text on it side quest writers usually write and are unimaginary is rather annoying. And that's why i sometimes just stick to the guide because i just need that checkmark in the quest/logbook nothing else anymore.

Speaking of which....the journal in this game is a very good idea on paper but using it and navigating on it is a chore.
Also noticed that there is a kind of questmarker. Which pops up for a 1-2 sec after you open and close the journal. Which shows you the way to the objective. And most of the time it wants to guide you in a direction which would require you to parkour and climb up things. But climbing is so slow that i often just ignore the way markers and take a longer path back on foot which is much faster. :D

[GAMING_Alligator]

I've noticed that about the quest marker. It just tries to send you a really weird way to places. Not sure if its done like that on purpose or just janky though.

[HeideKnight]

Originally posted by Nihil:

Yeah but finding things on your own is one thing and satisfying. Needing to to from A to B than to A again to go to C and then Back to B then to A and back again to B just to be able to find something on C which allows you to finish the task on A is annoying as hell even if i'm the one who figured that out. If i explore and figure out things i like to do it when it actually matters. But finding some thorn down letter which has some stock text on it side quest writers usually write and are unimaginary is rather annoying. And that's why i sometimes just stick to the guide because i just need that checkmark in the quest/logbook nothing else anymore.

Speaking of which....the journal in this game is a very good idea on paper but using it and navigating on it is a chore.
Also noticed that there is a kind of questmarker. Which pops up for a 1-2 sec after you open and close the journal. Which shows you the way to the objective. And most of the time it wants to guide you in a direction which would require you to parkour and climb up things. But climbing is so slow that i often just ignore the way markers and take a longer path back on foot which is much faster. :D

Do you have a concrete example for this backtracking problem? Because I can't remember having to revisit many places back and forth in one of the missions.

And regarding the markers which appear when opening the map, I am glad that they exist, because some things are very difficult to find. Particularly in vertical levels like in the catacombs it can happen that you are on spot of the subject that you are looking for, but it can be either above or below you. The 3d marker then shows explicitly where you have to go.

[Nihil]

Originally posted by HeideKnight:

Originally posted by Nihil:

Yeah but finding things on your own is one thing and satisfying. Needing to to from A to B than to A again to go to C and then Back to B then to A and back again to B just to be able to find something on C which allows you to finish the task on A is annoying as hell even if i'm the one who figured that out. If i explore and figure out things i like to do it when it actually matters. But finding some thorn down letter which has some stock text on it side quest writers usually write and are unimaginary is rather annoying. And that's why i sometimes just stick to the guide because i just need that checkmark in the quest/logbook nothing else anymore.

Speaking of which....the journal in this game is a very good idea on paper but using it and navigating on it is a chore.
Also noticed that there is a kind of questmarker. Which pops up for a 1-2 sec after you open and close the journal. Which shows you the way to the objective. And most of the time it wants to guide you in a direction which would require you to parkour and climb up things. But climbing is so slow that i often just ignore the way markers and take a longer path back on foot which is much faster. :D

Do you have a concrete example for this backtracking problem? Because I can't remember having to revisit many places back and forth in one of the missions.

And regarding the markers which appear when opening the map, I am glad that they exist, because some things are very difficult to find. Particularly in vertical levels like in the catacombs it can happen that you are on spot of the subject that you are looking for, but it can be either above or below you. The 3d marker then shows explicitly where you have to go.

For example the journal of that old priest the nun asked to collect. Or generally when you try to do a mission you already got, but when you go there you are still locked out of that place due to a main mission progress. You progress, you go to the side activities again and half of them are still locked. Then you go further in the main mission, you reach a milestone, you want to check if the side activities are available or not because you are not far from them. You do again a lot of time consuming climbing and yes, they are still locked. So yeah all these pointless running around is driving me nuts. YOu could say again: "just ignore them and go to the main objectives". But what's the point of having the side activities then? Yes i know this is ages old game dev practice in games. But that doesn't mean it is a good practice. I have played enough of these kind of games that i don't want to waste my time anymore with them. As written above by me and others, these are purely there for FOMO and to have a gametime extender system in place

To the quest marker: But you yourself wrote that you want to explore on your own. Quest markers are also a type of guides and helpers. If you have them you don't need to figure out anything.

[HeideKnight]

Originally posted by Nihil:

Originally posted by HeideKnight:

Do you have a concrete example for this backtracking problem? Because I can't remember having to revisit many places back and forth in one of the missions.

And regarding the markers which appear when opening the map, I am glad that they exist, because some things are very difficult to find. Particularly in vertical levels like in the catacombs it can happen that you are on spot of the subject that you are looking for, but it can be either above or below you. The 3d marker then shows explicitly where you have to go.

For example the journal of that old priest the nun asked to collect. Or generally when you try to do a mission you already got, but when you go there you are still locked out of that place due to a main mission progress. You progress, you go to the side activities again and half of them are still locked. Then you go further in the main mission, you reach a milestone, you want to check if the side activities are available or not because you are not far from them. You do again a lot of time consuming climbing and yes, they are still locked. So yeah all these pointless running around is driving me nuts. YOu could say again: "just ignore them and go to the main objectives". But what's the point of having the side activities then? Yes i know this is ages old game dev practice in games. But that doesn't mean it is a good practice. I have played enough of these kind of games that i don't want to waste my time anymore with them. As written above by me and others, these are purely there for FOMO and to have a gametime extender system in place

To the quest marker: But you yourself wrote that you want to explore on your own. Quest markers are also a type of guides and helpers. If you have them you don't need to figure out anything.

Ok, so it seems you criticise that you have to go back to places that you visited earlier because you did overlook something that is related to a side quest (like a collectible or the like). I have also not found every single items in the caves and catacombs, but I just do not care. The point is, if you finished the game and you liked it, it is nice to have some of those side missions still available, because then you can revisit all the areas again. That is, for me this is not additional work to do, but I actually enjoy it going back to those places. If you do not enjoy this exploration part in the game, then why do you care? You can't criticise this when it is all optional content. It is fully up to you if you complete the game to 100% or just reach the ending without having seen everything.

And regarding markers: yes, I did first try to find all objectives without using the map. But some of the areas are so big that it is an indispensible help when you are lost, of course. Again, it is all up to you to which extent you want to use the map as a guide. And hint: missions can be activated and deactivated in the quest log, so if you don't want the 3d markers, then deactivate the corresponding mission and they are gone. Simple solution to this problem.

[Nihil]

Originally posted by HeideKnight:

Ok, so it seems you criticise that you have to go back to places that you visited earlier because you did overlook something that is related to a side quest (like a collectible or the like).

Not overlooked. That's the point. You are always at some point locked out of progression in one activity to a progression of an other activity. As i said...this is 1:1 the typical system all Lego games are doing. Forcing you to go back to an already visited area again after completition of the game or the game segment.

But not just that. Other quest. The nun quest(line) with that nun who got captured. The entire questline is running back and forth already visited locations in the Vatican. Sorry but i don't find that a satisfying gameplay to run around the same circle dozens of times.
So revisiting places is maybe fun for you. But i personally hate it and find it a cheap developer technique. As i said much more linear adventure games like Deadfall have more gameplay room and it is linear as hell.

Originally posted by HeideKnight:

And regarding markers: yes, I did first try to find all objectives without using the map. But some of the areas are so big that it is an indispensible help when you are lost, of course. Again, it is all up to you to which extent you want to use the map as a guide. And hint: missions can be activated and deactivated in the quest log, so if you don't want the 3d markers, then deactivate the corresponding mission and they are gone. Simple solution to this problem.

That is only an illusion that they are big. Only if you listen to the quest markers and go the direction they show you to go, then they look big because it takes a lot of time to get through them with climbing and crouching and crawling. But if you ignore it and just.....run, they are pretty small areas.

[HeideKnight]

Originally posted by Nihil:

Originally posted by HeideKnight:

Ok, so it seems you criticise that you have to go back to places that you visited earlier because you did overlook something that is related to a side quest (like a collectible or the like).

Not overlooked. That's the point. You are always at some point locked out of progression in one activity to a progression of an other activity. As i said...this is 1:1 the typical system all Lego games are doing. Forcing you to go back to an already visited area again after completition of the game or the game segment.

But not just that. Other quest. The nun quest(line) with that nun who got captured. The entire questline is running back and forth already visited locations in the Vatican. Sorry but i don't find that a satisfying gameplay to run around the same circle dozens of times.
So revisiting places is maybe fun for you. But i personally hate it and find it a cheap developer technique. As i said much more linear adventure games like Deadfall have more gameplay room and it is linear as hell.

Originally posted by HeideKnight:

And regarding markers: yes, I did first try to find all objectives without using the map. But some of the areas are so big that it is an indispensible help when you are lost, of course. Again, it is all up to you to which extent you want to use the map as a guide. And hint: missions can be activated and deactivated in the quest log, so if you don't want the 3d markers, then deactivate the corresponding mission and they are gone. Simple solution to this problem.

That is only an illusion that they are big. Only if you listen to the quest markers and go the direction they show you to go, then they look big because it takes a lot of time to get through them with climbing and crouching and crawling. But if you ignore it and just.....run, they are pretty small areas.

Ok, it is this one (A Nun in Trouble):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ne_0cS9Ai8Q
Now what exactly is the problem with this side mission? That Indy needs to go to two different locations, first the museum (to get info about Giulianas whereabouts) and then the Borgia tower to rescue her? I really don't understand why one would complain about this? Also given that the locations where Indy needs to go are new ones he hasn't visited before.

Of course, it is inevitable with the design of the game with the open world areas that Indy revisits certain places on the map a number of times. You have this with any other game which is open world as well. But the areas are small enough (as you argue yourself, too) that it doesn't take a very long time to go to a particular location. I think in Gizeh and Sukhotai there are also fast travel points which Indy can use once he visited a certain spot (I never used it, though),

And the point about the scale of the open world maps: they feel big, because there are many things to find in them. Almost any new location has something interesting that is also connected to a side activity or the main mission.