Mandatory Ray-Tracing?

[Amfneey]

I'm not a fan of this. I'm sure the game is going to be fine, but I hate the idea that the game requires ray-tracing. I've never heard of a game having mandatory Ray-Tracing before. Hopefully they'll eventually patch it and include some baked lighting, that way people without an RTX Capable GPU can play it. I have a GPU capable of Ray-Tracing, I just don't like the idea of using it due to performance hits.

[Dagtag]

Originally posted by tarmo888:

Originally posted by Dagtag:

You still don’t grasp the difference between software and hardware solutions…

Quake 2 is a non argument, have you seen how basic that game is? There is a reason it works on gtx gpu’s….

More complex games like indiana jones simply won’t run as you want them to on gtx gpu’s…

All this coping just because you are running 6 years behind

Well, at least you seem to get that different games could have different performance impact for using raytracing, but the basic global illumination in Indiana Jones isn't that complex, path tracing is complex, no matter which game, Quake 2 RTX is using path tracing.

Hellblade 2 lighting is complex and Steam Deck struggles with it more than with Indiana Jones, but it can be streamed from PC with GTX 1660 Super to Deck just fine because the low resolution.

I give up. I have tried explaining it numerous ways and you still don’t understand it.

Again, for the record, i am a game dev who has actually made ray tracer and rasterizer engines. I have actual hands on experience in this field. Experience you do not seem to have.

[tarmo888]

Originally posted by Dagtag:

Originally posted by tarmo888:

Well, at least you seem to get that different games could have different performance impact for using raytracing, but the basic global illumination in Indiana Jones isn't that complex, path tracing is complex, no matter which game, Quake 2 RTX is using path tracing.

Hellblade 2 lighting is complex and Steam Deck struggles with it more than with Indiana Jones, but it can be streamed from PC with GTX 1660 Super to Deck just fine because the low resolution.

I give up. I have tried explaining it numerous ways and you still don’t understand it.

Again, for the record, i am a game dev who has actually made ray tracer and rasterizer engines. I have actual hands on experience in this field. Experience you do not seem to have.

For the record, I am a game dev too and software developer for 20 years. The fact that you wrote a ray tracer and rasterizer has nothing to do with how modern games are made, nobody does ray tracing with software (that's just good way to practice programming), game engine developers use DXR API that uses GPU (hardware). That same API is also supported by GTX 16 series, which just uses different hardware for same DXR API calls.

Maybe, instead of doing raytracing with software, you should actually try raytracing in different games and see what settings you need to change in order to get it playable. Obviously your own raytracing attempt is so basic that it doesn't do even the basic optimizations that most engines nowadays do.

[Dagtag]

Originally posted by tarmo888:

Originally posted by Dagtag:

I give up. I have tried explaining it numerous ways and you still don’t understand it.

Again, for the record, i am a game dev who has actually made ray tracer and rasterizer engines. I have actual hands on experience in this field. Experience you do not seem to have.

For the record, I am a game dev too and software developer for 20 years. The fact that you wrote a ray tracer and rasterizer has nothing to do with how modern games are made, nobody does ray tracing with software (that's just good way to practice programming), game engine developers use DXR API that uses GPU (hardware). That same API is also supported by GTX 16 series, which just uses different hardware for same DXR API calls.

Maybe, instead of doing raytracing with software, you should actually try raytracing in different games and see what settings you need to change in order to get it playable. Obviously your own raytracing attempt is so basic that it doesn't do even the basic optimizations that most engines nowadays do.

Like i said, i give up.

You don’t understand and likely never will… you claim to be a game dev but literally everything you have said up to this point is a clear indication that you are not

[tarmo888]

Originally posted by Dagtag:

Originally posted by tarmo888:

For the record, I am a game dev too and software developer for 20 years. The fact that you wrote a ray tracer and rasterizer has nothing to do with how modern games are made, nobody does ray tracing with software (that's just good way to practice programming), game engine developers use DXR API that uses GPU (hardware). That same API is also supported by GTX 16 series, which just uses different hardware for same DXR API calls.

Maybe, instead of doing raytracing with software, you should actually try raytracing in different games and see what settings you need to change in order to get it playable. Obviously your own raytracing attempt is so basic that it doesn't do even the basic optimizations that most engines nowadays do.

Like i said, i give up.

You don’t understand and likely never will… you claim to be a game dev but literally everything you have said up to this point is a clear indication that you are not

I think you don't even know what "I give up" means. Also, I have the same feeling about you, any real dev would understand that their raytracing practice attempt wouldn't apply to what modern engines actually do.

[Dagtag]

Originally posted by tarmo888:

Originally posted by Dagtag:

Like i said, i give up.

You don’t understand and likely never will… you claim to be a game dev but literally everything you have said up to this point is a clear indication that you are not

I think you don't even know what "I give up" means. Also, I have the same feeling about you, any real dev would understand that their raytracing practice attempt wouldn't apply to what modern engines actually do.

I most certainly do. I have given up on explaining how rt and hardware solutions work.

I haven’t given up on calling you out for not knowing what you are talking about

[tarmo888]

Originally posted by Dagtag:

Originally posted by tarmo888:

I think you don't even know what "I give up" means. Also, I have the same feeling about you, any real dev would understand that their raytracing practice attempt wouldn't apply to what modern engines actually do.

I most certainly do. I have given up on explaining how rt and hardware solutions work.

I haven’t given up on calling you out for not knowing what you are talking about

That's rich that you think you explained anything, you just repeated the same nonsense, which can be easily be tested to be false by just running a game that uses DXR, which I have with many games on GTX 1660 Super.

You aren't calling out anything, you are just flexing that you once wrote your own raytracer, which has no relevance how modern games do raytracing. It's just a exercise for graphics programmer.

[Mav99]

Originally posted by tarmo888:

you just repeated the same nonsense, which can be easily be tested to be false by just running a game that uses DXR, which I have with many games on GTX 1660 Super.

You mean like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcV9oaDLSOU
That's Quake 2 RTX on a GTX 1070 and it either runs terrible or looks terrible. That card is basically on the same level as your 1660 Super.

As I said before, in the end it really doesn't matter if Indiana Jones could run at playable frame rates on your card because it just won't happen.

Why would anyone waste time and money on adding support for a few obsolete cards with a total market share below 5% just for one game?

[redes]

upgrade ur pc

[Crunchy[Daz]]

What people aren't understanding is that the impact is very low compared to normal RT. So low, its basically a non-issue. Only people with outdated cards or very weak modern cards will have problems.

[MintNight]

I really love india jones, so I was excited when I saw this game tba on Steam. Was really disappointed when I discovered you had to have rt hardware to play this... I think this tech was released too early just like how new lighting tech for games was released in the past. Why can't people wait for technology to be more of a workable product before implementing it into mainstream games. Rt totally needed an extra 10 years before being released to the market... Not IJ's fault but why do any game developers think it's stable enough to fully rely on in a game yet? It's cool but sad that it had to be IJ that was used for this project :/

[MintNight]

Originally posted by redes:

upgrade ur pc

That would be fine except for the fact that it is mandatory... Why do we have to? Incentivise us to upgrade, don't force us to :/

[Mav99]

Originally posted by MintNight:

I think this tech was released too early just like how new lighting tech for games was released in the past. Why can't people wait for technology to be more of a workable product before implementing it into mainstream games.

nVidia RTX cards are around for 6 years, nVidia just announced the 4th major generation of cards that support it. AMD cards with hardware ray-tracing are out for 4 years, their third generation of cards supporting it has just been (vaguely) announced. Intel ARC is available for 2 years, their second generation just started coming out at the end of last year.

According to the Steam hardware survey, Around 60% of Steam users have cards that can run this game, The vast majority of those are nVidia RTX cards. Both major consoles support hardware ray-tracing and can (or will) run this game.

I think it's about time games start using more ray-tracing. Besides, the demands of the basic ray-traced global illumination are so low that pretty much ALL cards that support it, can also run it. The optional Path tracing is a different story but even that is quite playable on many RTX 40 Series cards.

I also think the hardware base is big enough now to allow developers to make it a requirement.

And you said it yourself, it's always been like that. And people have always been complaining about it.
For Games like Quake or Wing Commander 3 people complained about the CPU demands being way too high. Later they complained when games required hardware 3D acceleration. Later they complained when games required hardware support for newer DirectX features. Now it's ray-tracing. The complaints really never stop...

Originally posted by MintNight:

That would be fine except for the fact that it is mandatory... Why do we have to? Incentivise us to upgrade, don't force us to :/

You DON'T HAVE to upgrade. You just can't play this game or any other that requires it.
If that's not incentive enough to upgrade, just wait and play it later...

[tarmo888]

Originally posted by Mav99:

I think it's about time games start using more ray-tracing. Besides, the demands of the basic ray-traced global illumination are so low that pretty much ALL cards that support it, can also run it. The optional Path tracing is a different story but even that is quite playable on many RTX 40 Series cards.

And that's the problem, that global illumination demands so little that even non-RTX gpus could do it. It's only the path tracing that actually requires RTX and lot of VRAM.

When console graphic preset is lower than PC minium settings then PC gamers got screwed. Especially nowadays when PC handhelds could avoid lowering the resolution so much if they could set the settings as low as console.

[Mav99]

Originally posted by tarmo888:

And that's the problem, that global illumination demands so little that even non-RTX gpus could do it.

Oh come on, don't start that again... maybe it would run, but it still won't happen! End of story...

[Dagtag]

Originally posted by MintNight:

Originally posted by redes:

upgrade ur pc

That would be fine except for the fact that it is mandatory... Why do we have to? Incentivise us to upgrade, don't force us to :/

You aren’t forced, as noone is forcing you to buy the game