WOKE: "new Indiana Jones story for a modern gaming audience"

[talloyer]

A guy(?) looking Woke, speaking Woke using Woke words. Oh, and Senior Narrative Designer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yp7_ImMV1Iw&t=314s
This concerns me far more than the first-person gameplay (though Machinegames is one of the very best into first-person perspective). And considering Machinegames loves to force unskippable "narative moments" in its games (Wolfenstein: Youngblood is THE exception since it is too light in Narrative, a blessing in disguise. And there was still Woke), is part of Xbox Game Studios, which is a client of Sweet Baby Inc., be assured there will be LOTS of Woke in "Indiana Jones and the Great Circle" (stupid subtitle). I am not looking forward to see Indiana Jones be "descontructed" by this "independent strong woman called Gina, apologizing all the time for being a male.
Moments like this made me dread whenever any company mentions the word "modern". Just imagine the Damage Ubisoft will do to Splinter Cell remake to appeal to the "modern audience" (off-topic)...

[IndyBender]

Originally posted by talloyer:

Originally posted by IndyBender:

You mean... like a shirt of their publisher, Bethesda Softworks? The shirt that Edward was wearing in the Developer Direct? It's also not a political thing to support the rights of other human beings, at least not in my eyes. It is such a nonissue that it is honestly comical how butthurt people are over Edward existing . Dude clearly has a passion for the Indiana Jones game the team is making and considering that Mitra Ashkan Far, the Cinematic Producer on the project, stated that everyone had stories about Indiana Jones and that many of them had grown up with the character in some way, I have no doubt that Edward, just like the other presenters and devs on the game, is looking to make The Great Circle a greatly enjoyable experience.

It is remarkable how people are already wholeheartedly convinced this game will be terrible solely because of a 13 minute presentation with a single person that they immediately judge and hate for no reason other than the fact that they look "woke" as if that means a damn thing (and not that they use the term 100% correctly too pffff). In the end, it's kinda sad that people are willing to judge a game that they know almost nothing about because they saw something that got their panties in a twist which must, obviously , mean that the game is gonna be terrible and that everyone involved is working with the devil to cause the downfall of their "favorite" characters.

Ah, the smurf Bethesda employee arrived at last! :taunt:

Ain't NO WAY you think I work at Bethesda, which isn't even the development studio here PFFFFFFF. I'm just very passionate about Indiana Jones, seeing as I grew up with the movies and three of the various games that Indy has gotten, although Staff of Kings on the Wii was not the greatest experience, woof.

Legitimately I just seriously love Indiana Jones and want the game to be really well received because it deserves to be passed down to the new generations, which includes my own. I really do mean every word I say, too, just to be 100% transparent. Also I'm not gonna lie I thought that I had more info on my profile than there actually is so I was gonna tell you to go ahead and look at my associated stuff but I guess there isn't anything on there to direct your attention to, other than the ridiculous amount of time I've spent playing Men of War: Assault Squad 2.

[Malker]

I bet most of the low lifes complaining here weren't even born when the first three movies hit the theatres.

[alex010300]

Originally posted by GohanF22 #All4One4All:

If people were smart, they wont even preorder this game and wait for loads of gameplay to see if they try to pull a fast one like they did with BG3 and Wokefield where you don't see it till more than 2 hours in cause then you can't get a refund from Valve. Pretty sure this game is getting 0 Preorders.

BG3 is woke ??????

[TsudaTumiko]

Originally posted by talloyer:

Originally posted by IndyBender:

You mean... like a shirt of their publisher, Bethesda Softworks? The shirt that Edward was wearing in the Developer Direct? It's also not a political thing to support the rights of other human beings, at least not in my eyes. It is such a nonissue that it is honestly comical how butthurt people are over Edward existing . Dude clearly has a passion for the Indiana Jones game the team is making and considering that Mitra Ashkan Far, the Cinematic Producer on the project, stated that everyone had stories about Indiana Jones and that many of them had grown up with the character in some way, I have no doubt that Edward, just like the other presenters and devs on the game, is looking to make The Great Circle a greatly enjoyable experience.

It is remarkable how people are already wholeheartedly convinced this game will be terrible solely because of a 13 minute presentation with a single person that they immediately judge and hate for no reason other than the fact that they look "woke" as if that means a damn thing (and not that they use the term 100% correctly too pffff). In the end, it's kinda sad that people are willing to judge a game that they know almost nothing about because they saw something that got their panties in a twist which must, obviously , mean that the game is gonna be terrible and that everyone involved is working with the devil to cause the downfall of their "favorite" characters.

Ah, the smurf Bethesda employee arrived at last! :taunt:

Also this is very well know, studios have a lot of people with steam accounts, a when a game releases you will see a ton of positive reviews ( starfield) then later when actual people buy the game thinking is was good they put the real reviews... Remember these studios have more than 2k employes

[Jom]

Originally posted by talloyer:

Originally posted by IndyBender:

You mean... like a shirt of their publisher, Bethesda Softworks? The shirt that Edward was wearing in the Developer Direct? It's also not a political thing to support the rights of other human beings, at least not in my eyes. It is such a nonissue that it is honestly comical how butthurt people are over Edward existing . Dude clearly has a passion for the Indiana Jones game the team is making and considering that Mitra Ashkan Far, the Cinematic Producer on the project, stated that everyone had stories about Indiana Jones and that many of them had grown up with the character in some way, I have no doubt that Edward, just like the other presenters and devs on the game, is looking to make The Great Circle a greatly enjoyable experience.

It is remarkable how people are already wholeheartedly convinced this game will be terrible solely because of a 13 minute presentation with a single person that they immediately judge and hate for no reason other than the fact that they look "woke" as if that means a damn thing (and not that they use the term 100% correctly too pffff). In the end, it's kinda sad that people are willing to judge a game that they know almost nothing about because they saw something that got their panties in a twist which must, obviously , mean that the game is gonna be terrible and that everyone involved is working with the devil to cause the downfall of their "favorite" characters.

Ah, the smurf Bethesda employee arrived at last! :taunt:

Seems so, and i would like to add, no i dont see any need to combine rights of other beings with creating a product i might buy and repeating myself if you are presenting your product it should have center stage and diverting from it makes it look like you have other priorities. @IndyBender, when buying stuff like bread did you ever ask your baker if he thought of the betterment of mankind when baking bread? Would you buy rather the best one or some ♥♥♥♥♥♥ tasting stuff as long as the bakery has put up a pride flag and calls the vile things they produce lgbt bread?

[CadaveR]

I mean, "for modern audience" don't left much for doubts

[Longhaul]

Have you seen the FREAK Senior Narrative Designer in charge of this mess??????? Not touching this ♥♥♥♥ with a 10' fracking pole!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbfSlpQM7jw

[IndyBender]

Originally posted by TsudaTumiko:

Originally posted by talloyer:

Ah, the smurf Bethesda employee arrived at last! :taunt:

Also this is very well know, studios have a lot of people with steam accounts, a when a game releases you will see a ton of positive reviews ( starfield) then later when actual people buy the game thinking is was good they put the real reviews... Remember these studios have more than 2k employes

I mean, you can look at the games I've played and the hours on them, my profile is completely public. But I'm flattered y'all think I work at... Bethesda Softworks, I guess? If you really wanted to be sure, feel free to look me up, it's not like my profile is private or anything. Between you and me, I don't think you'll see many (if any) Bethesda developed games there whatsoever. Does that mean I'm not a Bethesda (Softworks? Game Studios?) employee? Perhaps not, but I certainly think that my presence on other media would say otherwise. Also I'd be impressed if Bethesda or MachineGames (or whoever) would have an 'industry plant,' I suppose one could say, that has been sitting idly for 11 years on the platform, however.

Originally posted by Jom:

Originally posted by talloyer:

Ah, the smurf Bethesda employee arrived at last! :taunt:

Seems so, and i would like to add, no i dont see any need to combine rights of other beings with creating a product i might buy and repeating myself if you are presenting your product it should have center stage and diverting from it makes it look like you have other priorities. @IndyBender, when buying stuff like bread did you ever ask your baker if he thought of the betterment of mankind when baking bread? Would you buy rather the best one or some ♥♥♥♥♥♥ tasting stuff as long as the bakery has put up a pride flag and calls the vile things they produce lgbt bread?

Herein lies a problem, in my eyes. During this presentation, there was one (1) person who was wearing a Bethesda Softworks shirt with rainbow colors, either in support of or as a member of the LGBTQ+ community. During the whole time that he was speaking, he was clearly focused on Indiana Jones and introducing us to the story, with The Marshall College segment with Tony Todd's character appearing. At no point is there any indication of a politicization of the story (although the nature of ♥♥♥♥♥-slapping Nazis and literally beating the spit out of them I think is technically inherently political) or making the story "woke" (which I again don't think is the right term here but I digress), at least not more woke than, again, pummeling Nazi scum. I don't think that we should be making these assumptions about the product based on one specific person and a prejudice that is held against their character.

I would like to also point your attentions to the interview Lucasfilm.com did with Jerk Gustafsson, the game director, where at one point he said, "we had enormous help from the team at Lucasfilm Games, in addition to vetting the story with them for creative feedback to make sure that we stayed true to the franchise." I think it's pretty clear the lengths at which they're going to try and create a true Indy experience.

Originally posted by 𝐂𝐚𝐝𝐚𝐯𝐞𝐑:

I mean, "for modern audience" don't left much for doubts

Quite frankly I think you're reading into it the wrong way. As I've stated in other discussions, the last Indiana Jones game the world has seen was Indiana Jones and the Staff of Kings, which I played on the Wii (wasn't the best, that's for sure). That game cam out 15 years ago now, and games and the standards for them have raised quite significantly for them, well, maybe not for Call of Duty seeing as World at War came out around that time and I think many of us WISH we could get a CoD game like that again. That's beside the point though.It sounds a lot more like Edward means it for the literal modern audience, the audience that is 15 years removed from Indy's last video game outing, with higher standards for mechanics and worldbuilding and everything else, as well as more polished gameplay and whatnot. I suppose you can take his statement as you will, but I think it would be a lot fairer to yourself and to the work and dedication of MachineGames to wait until the game releases or we at least learn more about the story and all that jazz before passing judgement on everything surrounding the game. Am I asking you to love the game now ? No, absolutely not. I'm simply asking that you take a moment, let the team cook, and not to be so quick to write off the game and the team behind it.

[Jom]

Originally posted by IndyBender:

about modern audience... let the team cook, and not to be so quick to write off the game and the team behind it.

If you think about all the failed shows, films,.. using the modern audience phrase and failing miserably afterwards you can try to redefine it, but people heared it too many times, that damage is done. Also seems kind of a waste of time to try and do damage control here. Maybe some hundred people will see it at best. Try google 'indiana jones for modern audience', about a million views obvious via google overview not even checking details of the different media talking about the issue. I don't know, 5% less sales as result of this promo video would be my guess.

[IndyBender]

Originally posted by Jom:

Originally posted by IndyBender:

about modern audience... let the team cook, and not to be so quick to write off the game and the team behind it.

If you think about all the failed shows, films,.. using the modern audience phrase and failing miserably afterwards you can try to redefine it, but people heared it too many times, that damage is done. Also seems kind of a waste of time to try and do damage control here. Maybe some hundred people will see it at best. Try google 'indiana jones for modern audience', about a million views obvious via google overview not even checking details of the different media talking about the issue. I don't know, 5% less sales as result of this promo video would be my guess.

I personally don't think "damage control" is what I would call this but that's not really important. Now, I don't use Chrome for my browser or Google as my search engine, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are some differences in the results, but a quick search for me yielded only YouTube videos and steam discussions talking about this. Now, I did take a look at one of the videos to see what they were saying, and to be honest, they were pretty hateful.

I would like to apologize real quick because I didn't give an answer to your initial question, so sorry about that. Now, I don't think that the scenario you've given is particularly equivalent to the situation that is occurring right now with this game, but I will give an answer regardless in a moment. The reason I disagree with it is because, in the scenario that you've described, the bread is a finished product. There have been proper reviews of each piece of bread from each bakery, whereas The Great Circle is a game that is still in development and has not been finished and released to the public. Right now, I believe that The Great Circle is more like the unbaked dough that has yet to turn into the bread, or something along those lines. I do think that you introduced a good analogy though, which hopefully we can use to come to an understanding in some way, even if in the end we still disagree.

To actually answer the question, I would, of course, choose the bread that is known to be delicious and enjoyable, but I wouldn't be hateful to the baker at the other store. Since I haven't tasted it myself, I wouldn't criticize it (unless it was very clearly a poor piece of bakemanship) since I hadn't tried it myself. I wouldn't speak ill of the baker as a person, only as a baker. Hopefully that makes sense, my apologies if it doesn't read right. However, if the wonderful piece of bread was made by a very hateful person, who was openly hateful to a particular group of people (or groups of people) and/or was giving some of the funds they made to groups that were trying to put those groups down in one way or another, I would prefer to take my business elsewhere, and so I wouldn't buy that bread either.

In the end, however, I don't think this is wholly representative of the situation at hand. I do thank you for giving me something to think about, and for creating a scenario that may hopefully get both of our points across more effectively than our current back-and-forth. This comment is getting far too long at this point, so thank you if you read this whole thing. I do hope, at least, that there is some common ground, no matter how broad or insignificant it is, that we can find. At the very least, I hope that we can agree that punching Nazis in the face and watching them get their just-desserts is a great thing that will never get old. I hope that the game, whenever it releases, pleasantly surprises you, despite the things you have seen that make you wary.

[talloyer]

If that "very hateful person" that makes delicious bread treats their costumers professionally well, it is absolutely okay to buy bread from that hateful person!

[Jom]

Originally posted by talloyer:

If that "very hateful person" that makes delicious bread treats their costumers professionally well, it is absolutely okay to buy bread from that hateful person!

And if he does his job well, creates a good product and keeps his whatever private opinions private we wouldn't even know, which leads us back to t-shirt guy, simple marketing basics. It's not that big a difference if it's 'good' or 'hateful' stuff, i also don't need a lecture about saving whales before i get my damn bread or a game or whatever. If i want this lecture i talk to Greenpeace.

[Berserkerson]

This whole modern gaming audience thing and trailer has so many red flags I'll be giving this a miss. I think it's safe to assume the game will be bait switch like Alan Wake 2 where you come to play as Indiana Jones but end up playing as Mary Jane. (See what I did there?). Indiana will be extremely wet behind the ears, belittled and constantly saved by the female protagonist who is what the real game is about and not Indiana, also it will be made sure that we all know about peoples diverse sexuality, because you know.... That's important.

With so much potential virute signalling and getting across "the message" I honestly don't think there will be enough space a for quality game.

[Tanoomba]

Originally posted by SonOfClement:

I think it's safe to assume

Why assume at all? There is literally nothing to lose in waiting for the game to release and finding out if it's any good.

[TsudaTumiko]

Originally posted by SonOfClement:

This whole modern gaming audience thing and trailer has so many red flags I'll be giving this a miss. I think it's safe to assume the game will be bait switch like Alan Wake 2 where you come to play as Indiana Jones but end up playing as Mary Jane. (See what I did there?). Indiana will be extremely wet behind the ears, belittled and constantly saved by the female protagonist who is what the real game is about and not Indiana, also it will be made sure that we all know about peoples diverse sexuality, because you know.... That's important.

With so much potential virute signalling and getting across "the message" I honestly don't think there will be enough space a for quality game.

While I love first person, I understand now why then went first person, they simple don't want to portrait a white man and that white man be a hero...