World of Guns: Gun Disassembly

World of Guns: Gun Disassembly

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2021 年 3 月 8 日 下午 1:42
HK 416 has been released for beta testing
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目前顯示第 76-90 則留言,共 105
White Atheist 2021 年 4 月 13 日 上午 10:22 
An update:

It is nice that the developers have updated the model. But old errors are still not fixed.

In my opinion, the barrel extension and the gas system should be cut, and the dust cover should be removed for the Cutaway mode. And I am not sure if the rate of fire has been increased.

If the developers want to make rear sights adjustable for range, they should be adjusted from minimal to maximal positions (from 100 to 400 m for the HK416). Other positions can be "selected" with the slow motion mode.

Fixed issues:
  • The activation with the left mouse button and the focus with the right mouse button.
  • The Click'n'Hide mode (except the lenses of the Aimpoint CompM2 1×38 mm reflex sight cannot be made transparent).
  • The Field Strip mode.
  • The incomplete reloading bug.
  • The lack of recoil, but recoil is not disabled in the slow motion mode (unlike with other models). Maybe the developers will let us disable recoil manually for all models regardless of the activation of the slow motion mode?
  • The "Stock2" button (but now the front sight cannot be folded down manually without removing the rear sight).
Remaining issues:
  • The Insight Technology CVL-001 (the AN/PEQ-5) laser sight is still not mounted properly (the bolt is not tightened). Please, fix it. They are rare on the civilian market and expensive. It is a horrible idea to mount them incorrectly.
  • The magazine spring still cannot be detached from the magazine locking plate (the manuals allow you to do so).
  • When you unload a cartridge while the fire selector is set to different positions, the game plays different unloading sounds.
  • Sometimes, when you open any model, there is a bug that blocks the majority of keyboard keys (at least in the Operation mode). It is fixed by restarting the game.
If anyone is interested, the flashlight in the game is the American Technologies Network Javelin J600.

I would appreciate if the developers fix the FG42 and the G43 (I provided more references), and let us completely hide parts by creating an additional mode for the Click'n'Hide mode (for now, it only makes them transparent). I want to write a guide that explains some features of the FG42 in a simple manner (particularly, the transition from full-auto to semi-auto fire, and the operation of the bolt stop of early models), but I cannot completely hide some parts that get in the way.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/262410/discussions/0/3004425113428045673/
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2454805152

I provided more references for the Heckler & Koch G11.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/262410/discussions/0/3112519113950222403/
最後修改者:White Atheist; 2021 年 4 月 15 日 上午 6:12
najnovijimeil95 2021 年 4 月 15 日 上午 1:44 
Barrel is missing rifling.
"HANDGUARD PIN" is missing screw threads at the end and handguard itself should have steel insert in hole where pin screws in.
Example - https://hkparts.net/product/handguard-rail-system-screw-hk416-mr556-hex-p17657.htm https://mk0hkpartsnetky850kq.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/hk-416-a5-forearm-with-flip-up-front-sight-extended-11-quot--4.jpg
All 416 uppers i ever saw have much larger threads for barrel nut that extend further back. In game threads are small and dont go back far enough.
Example - https://gun.deals/sites/default/files/HB_HK416_UPPER_00.jpg http://www.zib-militaria.de/HK416-Upper-EMPTY-HK
EDIT:
Actually there is one that have threads like that. It's a A5 variant but if you wanna go that way you should add protector for bolt relase since A5 have it on the side and metal protrusion in front of the threads as you can see here https://hkparts.net/product/hk-416a5-upper-receiver-incomplete-tan-p18787.htm
So....eather make a a5 variant upper with proper changes or make old variant which is easier to do but i dont think older variants where available in tan colour
最後修改者:najnovijimeil95; 2021 年 4 月 15 日 上午 2:07
White Atheist 2021 年 4 月 15 日 上午 3:44 
najnovijimeil95, you are correct. I can't find any standard models in the tan color aside from airsoft guns. I highly recommend the developers to make the correct standard model instead of a frankengun. Militaries, law enforcement agencies, and gunsmiths use World of Guns and Gun Disassembly 2 games, and it would be awful to make a mistake or get confused because of Noble Empire's errors.

Did they use an airsoft gun to create the model?
最後修改者:White Atheist; 2021 年 4 月 15 日 上午 5:42
najnovijimeil95 2021 年 4 月 15 日 下午 2:03 
Screw threads are added on handguard pin but its function is still not represented properly.
Pin should touch barrel nut! Tight fit between pin and nut is what holds handguard in place.
White Atheist 2021 年 4 月 16 日 上午 10:26 
引用自 najnovijimeil95
Screw threads are added on handguard pin but its function is still not represented properly.
Pin should touch barrel nut! Tight fit between pin and nut is what holds handguard in place.
Yes, they should fix the model.

Now the model has been updated for the Cutaway mode.

The game has the tan E1 stock. E1 stocks were not offered as accessories for standard HK416 models (yes, they can still be installed). E1 stocks (not to be confused with Slim Line stocks) were offered for M27 IAR assault rifles and MR556A1 semi-automatic rifles. A larger version of the tan E1 stock is standard for the G28 Patrol sniper rifle. But HK416 and HK417 rifles (and their variants) have non-interchangeable stocks because they have different buffer tubes. I recommend the developers to change the stock and textures (from tan to black) of the model to make it more accurate. Frankenguns confuse people and have no place in realistic simulators/educational gun encyclopedias.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/hk-manuals/files/Military/HK416/M27_Product_Brief.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M27_Infantry_Automatic_Rifle
http://pewpewpew.work/german/hk/hkm4/iar.htm
http://s3.amazonaws.com/hk-manuals/files/Military/G28/G28_Accessories.pdf (go to the page 3)
http://s3.amazonaws.com/hk-manuals/files/Military/G28/G28_Brochure.pdf
http://s3.amazonaws.com/hk-manuals/files/Civilian/MR556/MR556A1_Operators_Manual.pdf
http://hk-manuals.com/ (see catalogs)

This is the standard stock for standard HK416 models since around 2008:
https://www.heckler-koch.com/en/products/accessories/accessories-military-law-enforcement/detail/articlenumber/235331.html
http://s3.amazonaws.com/hk-manuals/files/Catalogs/Military/HK_Military_LE_Catalog_2008.pdf (see pages 14 and 15)
http://s3.amazonaws.com/hk-manuals/files/Catalogs/Military/HK_Military_LE_Catalog_2018.pdf (see pages 26 and 27)

If there is a problem with the Insight Technology CVL-001 (the AN/PEQ-5) laser sight, then the developers can use the SIG Sauer G-LAD Tactical Green Laser (it should emit the green laser beam and not the red one) from the P90 or the SG 552 models, or the Laser Devices, Inc. OTAL-C Offset Aiming Laser-Classic (the model in the game is the earlier one and not the one made by Steiner, sorry) from the UMP45 model.

It's not a good idea to use airsoft guns as a basis for a model creation. They (even "licensed" ones) usually have inaccuracies.

Sorry if I sound like an annoying, nitpicking perfectionist. I understand that the developers have a lot of work, that it's difficult to make video games, that their company is small, and that they don't have a lot of time and money. I just want the game to be improved. And it's sad that there is no changelog.
最後修改者:White Atheist; 2021 年 4 月 18 日 上午 7:04
Antti-san 2021 年 4 月 16 日 下午 3:26 
引用自 White Atheist
Sorry if I sound like an annoying, nitpicking perfectionist. I understand that the developers have a lot of work, that it's difficult to make video games, that their company is small, and that they don't have a lot of time and money. I just want the game to be improved. And it's sad that there is no changelog.
Nothing wrong with being "pedantic" I think, WOG is meant to be a simulator/encyclopedia so it's good that people point out inaccuracies. Even if the devs can't always look into and fix them, for the reasons you mentioned.
最後修改者:Antti-san; 2021 年 4 月 16 日 下午 3:27
White Atheist 2021 年 4 月 17 日 上午 2:41 
Recoil is now disabled with 10× and 50× slow motion effects. Other errors still remain.
引用自 Antti-san
引用自 White Atheist
Sorry if I sound like an annoying, nitpicking perfectionist. I understand that the developers have a lot of work, that it's difficult to make video games, that their company is small, and that they don't have a lot of time and money. I just want the game to be improved. And it's sad that there is no changelog.
Nothing wrong with being "pedantic" I think, WOG is meant to be a simulator/encyclopedia so it's good that people point out inaccuracies. Even if the devs can't always look into and fix them, for the reasons you mentioned.
Even simulators have hilarious errors. In Arma: Cold War Assault (set in 1982 and 1985), the G36E rifle (introduced in 1998 in real life) makes most guns useless, and it's much more powerful than the M60 machine gun.

It seems that all video games have errors with FG42 models in one way or another. If the developers fix the FG42 model, they will gain a huge advantage over others. They only need to fix the rear sight and the bug with the fire selector, fix or disable the unsafe unloading animation (old high scores can be saved), add the incomplete reloading animation, and let us pull the trigger twice manually during the transition from full-auto to semi-auto fire (the animation of the transition is correct because the interruptor and the sear don't allow to pull the trigger only once to fire a shot). The complete reloading animations are also correct.

And it would be very nice if they create the earlier, selective fire "Typ E" model as well. It's a bit different from the "Typ G" model, and it has unique and interesting features. They can always ask volunteers to help with both models. Sport-Systeme Dittrich and Smith Manufacturing Group should help with more references. I'll test the models. Noble Empire will gain a huge advantage if they include both correct FG42s in the game.

http://smgguns.com/
https://smggunsstore.com
http://ssd-weapon.com
White Atheist 2021 年 4 月 18 日 上午 6:38 
Sorry for double posting.

The laser sight, the unloading sound, and the threads for the barrel nut are now fixed.

The handguard pin is still not fixed. The magazine spring still cannot be detached from the magazine locking plate (if it's too difficult to fix, then it's not a problem).

A new bug: when you paint lenses of the Aimpont sight or windows of the EOTech sight in the Paint mode and then remove one sight and install another, the lenses or the windows of another sight also get painted. You can also make the lenses and the windows transparent by using the Click'n'Hide mode in the Paint mode, but not in the Operation mode.

I would use the standard HK416 stock (I can help find more references; E1 stock were installed on HK416Ds during SHOT Show 2008, but I can't find any evidence that they were offered as accessories for standard HK416 models) and the texture of the sight window of the EOTech Model 552 1x30x21 mm similar to one that is installed on the M4 carbine. I would also use more realistic colors for the auto sear, the disconnector, the extractor, the gas piston, and the gas piston rod guides. I don't know why some rifles have "HK416" markings and some have "HK416D" markings.

I don't think that the handguard of the standard HK416 model should have numbers inside the side and bottom slots (at least Heckler & Koch's photos don't have these numbers). It seems that some standard models have numbers inside the top slots of the handguard and of the upper receiver.

https://prometheus.med.utah.edu/~bwjones/2008/02/shot-show-2008/

http://s3.amazonaws.com/hk-manuals/files/Military/HK416/HK416_Operators_Manual.pdf (see the page 20)

http://pewpewpew.work/german/hk/hkm4/hkm4.htm

http://pewpewpew.work/german/hk/hkm4/dscn755.jpg

http://pewpewpew.work/german/hk/hkm4/cover1.jpg

https://hk-usa.com/hk-models/hk416-14-5/

http://web.archive.org/web/20111011153858/http://www.hk-usa.com/military_products/hk416_general.asp

http://web.archive.org/web/20120315122924/http://www.heckler-koch.com/en/accessories/detail/articlenumber/233184.html

Now the texture of the rifle is correct, but I don't know why they have changed the sight markings from yellow to white (they should be yellow). And there should be 2 horizontal yellow dots below the 200 m marking. The model in the game has the 368.3 mm (14.5 in) barrel. The rear sight cylinder model is correct. I have an insane obsession with gun sights and gas regulators because gun books/articles/videos rarely describe them thoroughly, and video games usually portray sights incorrectly.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/hk-manuals/files/Military/HK416/HK416_Operators_Manual.pdf (see pages 33, 34, and 53)

https://hkparts.net/product/mr556-hk-416-rear-sight-drum-14-5-16-barrel-p17775.htm

http://web.archive.org/web/20120313200006/http://www.heckler-koch.com/en/products/assault-rifles/hk416/hk416-145/accessories.html?tx_z7attachmentshk_pi3%5Barticle%5D=158&cHash=e552e1f9a507318118d240db348c5e6c (incorrectly has the picture of a sight with a single dot for the 264.16 mm (10.4 in) barrel version)

Noble Empire, I apologize if I annoy you with my complaints too much. And thank you for fixing the errors and creating more accessories and interactive parts.
最後修改者:White Atheist; 2021 年 4 月 21 日 上午 6:53
najnovijimeil95 2021 年 4 月 18 日 上午 11:43 
Piston and gas piston rod move too much back and return spring is too flexible for such a stiff design. So much so that entire piston exits the gas block. That makes no sense. Gun would be unreliable if that was a case in real life.
From what i saw on slow motion videos and read in articles piston on 416 moves back just slightly. Short but hard kick of piston rod and inertia is what drives bolt carrier back.
Examples -
at 3:50 https://youtu.be/k6DrAw7y594
at 2:40 https://youtu.be/6q7ysk0Nbmo
Would be best if someone from HK can educate us about how far piston and rod travel but to me movement of gas system in game seems excessive.
EDIT: I just noticed buffer retainer pin looks weird its too thin and floats in air inside that hole.
As far as entire discussion about details and accuracy of models brought to perfection goes... only thing i'll say is that devil truly is in details, doing things right matters...
最後修改者:najnovijimeil95; 2021 年 4 月 18 日 上午 11:56
White Atheist 2021 年 4 月 18 日 下午 12:14 
These patents should help:
https://data.epo.org/publication-server/pdf-document?pn=2018508&ki=B1&cc=EP&pd=20100120
https://patents.google.com/patent/EP2018508B1/en
https://patents.google.com/patent/US7637199B2/en
https://patents.google.com/patent/DE102005043653A1/en

More patents if Noble Empire or someone else needs them:
https://patents.justia.com/assignee/heckler-koch

I hope more people will request the beta test access, help with testing, and provide more references. Noble Empire should respond to your requests here and give your account the "Test Account" flag.
最後修改者:White Atheist; 2021 年 4 月 18 日 下午 1:09
AfterCrow 2021 年 4 月 18 日 下午 1:57 
How does one apply to beta testing?
White Atheist 2021 年 4 月 18 日 下午 2:18 
引用自 AfterCrow
How does one apply to beta testing?
Either write here that you want to be a tester or add Noble Empire to friends and send them a message. Noble Empire should respond and give you the access. Or contact them here: http://noble-empire.com/contacts.php

najnovijimeil95, when you enable the Plastic mode, the buffer retainer pin (as it's called in the game; also called "clamping sleeve for locking pin" and "pin, retainer, buffer" in manuals) looks rather normal (I'm still not sure about accuracy; Noble Empire should explain). It's definitely a roll pin as the manual below says.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/hk-manuals/files/Civilian/MR556/MR556A1_Operators_Manual.pdf (see pages 48 and 50)

http://hk-manuals.com/ (manuals have low quality pictures of the buffer retainer pin)

http://www.rksplus.com/epages/lno1J350m.sf/en_US/?ObjectPath=/Shops/lno1J350m/Products/HK416544

https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/50984199

https://www.rksusa.net/HK416-CLAMPING-SLEEVE-LOCK-RELEASE-LEVER-p/986544.htm

https://hkparts.net/product/buffer-retainer-pin-mr762-mr556-416-p12704.htm (not sure if this is actually the buffer retainer pin or the buffer cap pin (as the game calls it))

And I hope I'll be able to provide more information about the gas system.
最後修改者:White Atheist; 2021 年 4 月 18 日 下午 2:29
najnovijimeil95 2021 年 4 月 18 日 下午 2:30 
I know its a roll pin but its not modeled properly in game. The way it is now literally looks like nanometre thick roll of something that floats inside the hole. Can be done better like roll pins on gas block are.
White Atheist 2021 年 4 月 19 日 上午 5:34 
引用自 najnovijimeil95
I know its a roll pin but its not modeled properly in game. The way it is now literally looks like nanometre thick roll of something that floats inside the hole. Can be done better like roll pins on gas block are.
This is what it looks in the game (the Plastic mode is on; the texture of this pin is glitched, so it looks weird when the Plastic mode is disabled):
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2461999058
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2461999037
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2461998998
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2461998969 (the right side)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2461998935 (the left side)

This is what it supposed to look from the side (I'm unable to find better photos):
https://www.hkpro.com/attachments/img_20200801_113635-jpg.268652/
https://www.hkpro.com/attachments/img_20200801_113724-jpg.268658/
https://www.hkpro.com/threads/wts-hk416-lower.522440/ (the original topic)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6DrAw7y594
(skip to 0:29)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp7tcz40JhY
(skip to 3:39)

I hope Noble Empire will respond to our posts and explain everything.

The original HK416 dust cover doesn't have ejector pin marks (the MR556 polymer dust cover has them; that's what these circular "things" are actually called; the name is related to the plastic manufacturing process).

HK416 magazines don't have weld dimples (similar looking circular "things").
https://hkparts.net/product/30-round-maritime-magazine-steel-hk-416-mr556-p487.htm

An update:

The buffer retainer pin texture has been fixed. The handguard pin seems to have been fixed too. Some textures have been improved, some have not (I would still use the correct rear sight markings; see my posts above).

The bug with the Aimpoint and the EOTech in the Paint mode is still not fixed. It's hard to test the model without any response from the developers. And more players should test the model.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oPBMgJXk2k
Not sure if this video will help (skip to 6:52). Noble Empire can always contact shooting ranges and gunsmithing schools for help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOvPG2jfsRE
(skip to 29:00 and to 32:16)
最後修改者:White Atheist; 2021 年 4 月 20 日 上午 7:46
AfterCrow 2021 年 4 月 20 日 上午 2:58 
Can i have beta testing access?
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