"The game needs to respect the player"; means?

[Eightball]

As an old, old gamer I have started to see this phrase used more and more in forums; 'respect for the player'.

For example some people argue this game 'does not respect the player',,,

And what, exactly does that mean? Is there some new set of unwritten rules that players now expect games to follow and that I am unaware of?

Does it mean the game does not lead the player around as opposed to letting them make their own way? Does it mean the game does not make things simple, like telling them everything they need to bring and everything they will face and even exactly where to go on quests? Does it mean removing risk as in no penalties on player death or corpse runs? Does it mean eliminating the need for prioritizing your characters in game efforts?

My approach to games is rather simple; if I like one I play it and if I don't then I don't. I have no expectations of 'respect' from a game, again whatever that means. And I don't think I have ever accused a game of not 'respecting' me.

So what does this phrase mean to you all? Personally I find it rather curious indeed.

[K§H]

Well, as much as I love Oblivion (my favourite is Morrowind by far), the game does treat the player like an idiot - just look at the journal entries... That in my book is not respecting the player - I prefer not being treated like an idiot while playing a game. The pop-ups in the game do the same - no thinking required.

[Eightball]

Interestingly it seems many players today expect exactly what this game does in terms of quest information. All the information right at hand.

I, like you it seems, prefer the old school limited-information-find-out-for-yourself questing.

'Head East until you hit the river' was the best you were going to get from a quest giver. What exactly am I looking for? What exactly will be waiting for me? Well, head East and find out!

Then again I don't use guides, watch YT video walk-throughs or scour Reddit for information. That all rather defeats the purpose of questing in the first place doesn't it?

But to each their own so good thing we have choices.

[Franzosisch]

It's generally used when a game is either built to waste the player's time with worthless content (like every quest being a fetch quest or similar) or treating the player like they're stupid (like spelling every little thing out, not letting the player even think about what a solution could be. Think about the constant "hints" PlayStation games love to put in their puzzles.)

[MrDinnertime]

The only games I can think of that "disrespect the player" are the ones which offer pay to win content / restrict the content unless microtransactions are purchased, after purchasing the full game. It's one or the other. I find both to be extremely disrespectful (particularly if the player has already paid for the AAA title)

[MrDinnertime]

to be clear though, DLC is fine as long as it offers meaningful content (if the game costs £50 and the DLC costs £50, I expect the same amount of content as the base game offered)

[Eightball]

@Franzosisch I suppose what defines a 'worthless' quest is rather broad. If doing such a quest -kill 10 rats- gives your player character exp, ,loot and skill progression is it worthless?

If a quest does not progress the game's main story is it not respecting the player?

But, as you say, if 'every' quest is like that then I can see your point. I would probably just not play such a game.

[Varanus]

Originally posted by K§H:

Well, as much as I love Oblivion (my favourite is Morrowind by far), the game does treat the player like an idiot - just look at the journal entries... That in my book is not respecting the player - I prefer not being treated like an idiot while playing a game. The pop-ups in the game do the same - no thinking required.

At least its not annoying, intrusive, modern day tutorials. That constantly inform you about literally every aspect of the game. With reminders, when said mechanic is relevant, just in case. Even for the most obvious things, that a literal illiterate child could figure out. That right there is not respecting the player, and treating them like an idiot.