Is the pre sequel really as bad as people say?

[Revelationz]

Haven't played yet but I've seen like 5 minutes of game play and it didn't look too bad but man I do know that this game got a lot of hate.. Is it really that bad? I bought the season pass edition on kinguin for like 7 bucks so I will try it after beating bl3 but I just wanted some opinions on what people think of the game.
I know some people complain about bl3 and playing it for the first time right now its not that bad in my opinion but yes I know completely different game.

[Zen_Disaster]

引用自 NeloDante：

引用自 Nakos：

I disagree, strongly.

Play the vanilla version first. If you want to mod the game later, then go for it, but learn what it is before you make the kind of drastic changes the UCP introduces.

UCP brings more bug fixes and QoL - why the hell wouldn't someone go for it?

引用自 Nakos：

Be aware: the main purpose of the UCP is to make the game easier. MUCH easier.

This is simply not true.

Nakos' heart's in the right place & he's helped many thousands of BL Series players since we both first finished BL2 the year of its release ~two salient matters about which negative~minded punks may want to take a clue. Whether or not you're literally "correct" is 100% inconsequential because these aren't "literal" inquiries ~ they seek opinions / points of view ~ and your's such as it maybe is noted. I can tell you a whole big bunch of reasons why someone "wouldn't go for it" to use your contextually strange phrase. I happen to strongly agree with everything Nakos said in the first of his comments that you've quoted for your lame personal attack on the guy (nice work NeloDante). The UCP was lead designed by another old friend who invited a dozen of us to contribute to its build & it was truly great fun to do so ~ i'm glad you enjoyed using it ~ that was its purpose. But a more positive or at least neutral approach to your comments in the BL Forums would be sincerely appreciated if you can do so with my many thanks in advance.

[Nakos]

引用自 NeloDante：

引用自 Nakos：

I disagree, strongly.

Play the vanilla version first. If you want to mod the game later, then go for it, but learn what it is before you make the kind of drastic changes the UCP introduces.

UCP brings more bug fixes and QoL - why the hell wouldn't someone go for it?

引用自 Nakos：

Be aware: the main purpose of the UCP is to make the game easier. MUCH easier.

This is simply not true.

Have you looked at the actual feature list of the default things the UCP does?

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/BLCM/BLCMods/master/Pre%20Sequel%20Mods/Community%20Patch/Full%20Changelog%202.2

The basic changes of the UCP are to Add, Increase, Boost, Buff

Drop rates are increased. Boss level drops are added to lots of things that didn't call anything but the default loot tables.. Penalties and limitations are removed. Damage is increased. Situational buffs are made universal.

The word Buffed occurs 19 times, Increased occurs 30 times, Boost 23 times. Added 8 times.

The word Reduced occurs only 10 times, the word Remove occurs only 11. And most of those are functionally buffs as well.

If more loot drops from every source, and the quality of that loot is superior, and all your abilities last longer, and do more damage and can be used in more situations, then go ahead, tell me how that isn't making the game a whole lot easier.


I'm sure the UCP is an impressive project, lot's of work went into it. I'm sure the original devs weren't infallible and I'm not trying to suggest the base game is perfect. But you can't look at that feature list and tell me that isn't going to make the game easier.

[NeloDante]

引用自 Nakos：

Have you looked at the actual feature list of the default things the UCP does?

I've gone so far as to change the code inside UCP myself to do custom stuff, so yes. Anyone has also the ability to say "no/yes" to any feature/change included with a simple click.

引用自 Nakos：

-snip-

Improving non-meta skills or skills that were not used often to make them up to par to the good ones or the better characters is not making the game easier - it's allowing for more build diversity. The game would be easier for you if you were using previously these skills only, but so the game would have been easier if you went for the actual good stuff.

Increasing the loot doesn't make the game easier - it lowers the time that you would need to grind for certain equipment if you want to try it.

Is your view about any changes related to the game something negative? If the answer is no, care to tell what you would be fine with then? It'd help me understand your pov.

[Nakos]

引用自 NeloDante：

引用自 Nakos：

Have you looked at the actual feature list of the default things the UCP does?

I've gone so far as to change the code inside UCP myself to do custom stuff, so yes. Anyone has also the ability to say "no/yes" to any feature/change included with a simple click.

That's hardly my point (as I'm sure you're well aware). Have you actually looked at that feature list I linked? Those are the default behaviors. You know perfectly well that most people (who install the UCP) won't alter the default behaviors and settings.

引用自 NeloDante：

Improving non-meta skills or skills that were not used often to make them up to par to the good ones or the better characters is not making the game easier - it's allowing for more build diversity. The game would be easier for you if you were using previously these skills only, but so the game would have been easier if you went for the actual good stuff.

From a purely objective perspective, in perfect laboratory conditions, you might have a point, but that's not the case here. Game play and skills and user diversity in accessing them and utilizing them isn't going to be perfectly consistent.

This isn't an environment where there are two slates of skills: One universally used to the exclusion of all others, and one universally avoided. Nor do those two extremes exist in a vacuum, but rather, in a game environment, where the aggregate power of your skill selections (both good ones and bad ones) is ALSO relevant.

Balance isn't just about the individual skills, it's also how they fit into the whole.

引用自 NeloDante：

Increasing the loot doesn't make the game easier - it lowers the time that you would need to grind for certain equipment if you want to try it.

Well, then, if that's the case, you'll have no objections to doing a little test for me eh? Go into your game and remove and/or disable the UCP, create a new character, and do a common (white) gear only run. No skill points assigned, only white quality gear. Complete the main story.

(And yes, I have done just exactly such a run).

Then go back and do a second run. For this one you can turn the UCP back on. Use Gibbed, spawn your favorite weapons, and synchronize them every few levels so they stay up to date. Still no skill points assigned though.

Let me know how it goes.

引用自 NeloDante：

Is your view about any changes related to the game something negative? If the answer is no, care to tell what you would be fine with then? It'd help me understand your pov.

That's hardly what I said.

I said: Play the vanilla game first before you do any modding. That way you'll understand what you're modding. And I stand by that statement.

[NeloDante]

引用自 Nakos：

Well, then, if that's the case, you'll have no objections to doing a little test for me eh? Go into your game and remove and/or disable the UCP, create a new character, and do a common (white) gear only run. No skill points assigned, only white quality gear. Complete the main story.

(And yes, I have done just exactly such a run).

Then go back and do a second run. For this one you can turn the UCP back on. Use Gibbed, spawn your favorite weapons, and synchronize them every few levels so they stay up to date. Still no skill points assigned though.

Let me know how it goes.

Where did I mention that going white is as easy as going blue? Increasing the loot has the same effect than repeating a dungeon clear several times, it's time what you invest in it - that has nothing to do with difficulty.
Increasing the loot quality and quantity of a boss for example, just means that you would have to clear that stage less times (on average) than vanilla to obtain what you're looking for.

Not that it matters much the loot in TPS when the best items are quest rewards due to uniques being, generally, better than legendaries.

Honestly, the user can make up his or her mind with what it has been said. I disagree with almost everything you have mentioned, so there's little point in pointing out the rest of your comment as it will just waste both of our time.

[Gilver Redgrave]

引用自 nicj：

The game isn't bad but unfortunately... 2k Australia poorly supported the game.

Thats wrong.
2k Australia in fact didnt get the support from 2k and in the end even got shut down before Pre-Sequel could even be finished. Endgame was planned and one of the BL3 DLCs is actually a DLC that was planned for Pre Sequel (that Alient Plant thing). People always blame 2K Australia but they had no saying in the matter like at all. No money = no development.

Overall the game still was great and has 1 of the best DLCs together with Tiny Tinas Wonderland. I believe Claptraps DLC is even the second best DLC right behind Tinas Wonderland.

So the only negative the game has that it is short compared to the other games and that some people really dont like the Oxygen System. I rather play Pre-Sequel then BL3 tbh.

[gamename]

I'm passing through this forum for the first time in a long time, so I'll point out that the balance of answers given so far might be slightly biased - first because you're asking here (ask the same over in the BL2 forum), second bc you're asking now, when the only ppl regularly in this forum are probably the ones who liked it a lot. Before this thread, I don't think I'd seen anyone say TPS was their favorite.

I put it far below BL2, mainly for the reasons others have said. It was still a BL game, still played it a bunch .. I think I probably turned dialog volume to 0.

Claptrap DLC was great, though. Loved it. Then, as I recall, I encountered a game-breaking bug .. maybe twice? (Door got stuck shut, with no way to re-do the story element that was supposed to open it) ... that finally killed it for me. I think I remember the game being a little buggy overall, but that was over the top.
Still, I think that was my favorite DLC of the series (I did finish it at least once, probably more).

I said: Play the vanilla game first before you do any modding. That way you'll understand what you're modding. And I stand by that statement.

I guess I put this game down before UCP was a thing, but this sure sounds sensible to me for pretty much any game + mod. Unless maybe the game is truly too broken to play without some kind of mod, in which case .. why bother?

引用自 Crimsomrider：

Borderlands 2 - Great game, but I found it atrociously boring halfway through and had to force myself to finish it without even really getting into the DLCs (Played as Maya)

If you've said that before, you know the response - go play the DLC, you're missing out. And maybe try some different classes. (Maya was cool. Zero was my first and probably favorite 'normal' character, if maybe a little too normal for some. Krieg was a blast. Love or hate, I guess.)

[Zen_Disaster]

引用自 gamename：

I'm passing through this forum for the first time in a long time, so I'll point out that the balance of answers given so far might be slightly biased - first because you're asking here (ask the same over in the BL2 forum), second bc you're asking now, when the only ppl regularly in this forum are probably the ones who liked it a lot. ... It was still a BL game, still played it a bunch ... I think I probably turned dialog volume to 0. ... Claptrap DLC was great ... Loved it. ... I think that was my favorite DLC of the series (I did finish it at least once, probably more).

I said: Play the vanilla game first before you do any modding. That way you'll understand what you're modding. And I stand by that statement.

I guess I put this game down before UCP was a thing, but this sure sounds sensible to me for pretty much any game + mod. Unless maybe the game is truly too broken to play without some kind of mod, in which case .. why bother?

引用自 Crimsomrider：

Borderlands 2 - Great game, but I found it atrociously boring halfway through and had to force myself to finish it without even really getting into the DLCs (Played as Maya)

If you've said that before, you know the response - go play the DLC, you're missing out. And maybe try some different classes. (Maya was cool. Zero was my first and probably favorite 'normal' character, if maybe a little too normal for some. Krieg was a blast. Love or hate, I guess.)

Ditto that bit on BL2 agreed Maya & Zero were tied for my faves. And on TPS my fave pair playing again through endgames were Athena & Nisha. For me really, the fun of these two games was centered on their shared roots up in the early Looter Shooter ARPG stratosphere. These were far more complex characters to level than any others previously encountered within this genre due to the primary impact on game play of your decisions about how to optimize your Skill Trees and Weapons selections. Other game play like the actual slayings, shootings + lootings of whatever bad guys (and their remnants :P) boils down to personal tastes & predilections about things like one's needs & tastes in audio selections & thumbs mashing limits you choose to bear. Just saying it to carry on your solid directions started here

[Bankai9212]

Given how ttw has went I’ll chime it. Pre-sequel is really good and pairs well with bl2. I think the main issue or biggest is most people expected something like bl3 which it wasn’t trying to be. But unlike ttw this game actually has some cool build/vault hunters and content plus some good story dlc.

[gamename]

引用自 Zen_Disaster：

Ditto that bit on BL2 agreed Maya & Zero were tied for my faves. And on TPS my fave pair playing again through endgames were Athena & Nisha. For me really, the fun of these two games was centered on their shared roots up in the early Looter Shooter ARPG stratosphere. These were far more complex characters to level than any others previously encountered within this genre due to the primary impact on game play of your decisions about how to optimize your Skill Trees and Weapons selections. Other game play like the actual slayings, shootings + lootings of whatever bad guys (and their remnants :P) boils down to personal tastes & predilections about things like one's needs & tastes in audio selections & thumbs mashing limits you choose to bear. Just saying it to carry on your solid directions started here :tga_trophy:

I hear you.
Been a few years since I played more than a few minutes of either, so getting fuzzy on details, but a few more opinions/reactions/rambling-TLDR (not so relevant to OP, by this point):
(Edit: 'of either' game, bl2/tps
Also, where I said Dialog volume to 0 - not on the first playthrough, but on subsequent runs, or at least parts of them. IIRC, Pickle is, IMO, unbearable, Janey not so bad in small doses, but it wasn't small doses .. IIRC)

I'd say Zero was my fave, and a very solid entry all around. Complex and useful skill-tree, with lots of ways to fine-tune up to some neat gameplay (consistent with what you're saying about the strategic importance of skill-tree and loadout), although also some clear, easy ways to spec/load for more casual players. Also, pretty cool style/backstory/dialog.

Even though I played her plenty (up into early OP, I'm sure), I didn't really feel like I fully 'got'/explored/took advantage of Maya. Probably would have done better on that front if I'd played MP more. I remember thinking that she might have the most interesting skill tree, if I'd gotten to know her as well as Zero.

I probably played both games more than I remember, and more than I indicated above. I think I got stuck as I mentioned above twice, and must have completed the Clappy DLC more than twice ... I think I remember the end several times (but I guess you could re-raid it .. still, at least 2 or 3 times). (I think I also dashed my way to the DLC grinder a few times, to get a grinder without re-doing the quests for the one in main-story-'sanctuary' ... So, that can't help the accuracy of my memory)

Edit: (Oh yeah, I guess the DLC was gated (by level?) - practically if not literally - so, even after I decided I wanted to play more DLC but not more main, bringing a new character to DLC meant slogging through a lot of main.)

I was explaining the idiom 'earworm' to someone recently, which reminded me of the Earworm, which is what got me thinking of TPS. Will probably have to play through again (DLC, not main) soon-ish. Really like your mainfra-a-ame.

I don't remember the TPS chars all that well. I think I played mostly with Clappy and Jack. I think I remember being underwhelmed by the ice queen (and ice in general). Sorta remember Nisha and her A-Skill, positively (don't remember her skill tree well enough to comment on what you're saying; maybe I'll use her first when I dive back in). Athena might've been another one I didn't dig into enough to really grok.

I think I hear what you're saying about the skill-tree being core-gameplay. IDK, for me I think it's a FPS first, or a looter-shooter first ... I'd say the actual slayings, and the style and theming of the game are the important core of the game, bc to me, you need to enjoy those to enjoy the game - and, not coincidentally, a video of someone in a fight would give a prospective player a quick sense of 'looks fun' or 'not for me'. Good skill-tree strategy certainly gives the game a lot more depth and long-term (& late-game) hold, and is part of what makes it BL. But you don't *need* it. Someone could take a simplistic approach to skill tree (and/or use a class with a less interesting tree), and still enjoy the shootin and lootin.

(Edit: Though I guess if we're talking about distinguishing/innovative features, then sure, the skill-tree is more unique than .. being a FPS looter-shooter.)

I note that neither of us mentioned the writing. I thought the non-plot writing was pretty good in BL2 and ClapDLC (dialog, humor, sidequests, etc.) ... I can't call it core gameplay or prime important, but if you like it and the theming and visual style of the series, that helps .. and if you really dislike those, I imagine it'd be hard to enjoy the series.

引用自 Revelationz：

I bought the season pass edition on kinguin for like 7 bucks

Even if it's your least favorite in the series, that's got to be a good price for so much game. OK, it's several years old now, but even through Steam Store (during regular sales), the prices have been nearly that low for years. Game pricing is a funny thing. I guess I probably bought everything (or most of it? IDK) through Steam, on sale ... Getting as many hours as I did on BL2 for what I paid is just nuts. Even if you cut out a *lot* of idle-minded grinding, and playthroughs that 'normal' gamers never get to, still *lots* of hours of top-notch entertainment. It would be a shame to spend full AAA money on all the 'meh' games, and you can't really know in advance, but now and then you realize you've played dozens (er, hundreds, or more .. I don't love knowing the number) of *good* hours for 7, 15, 20 monies and just got a hell of a deal. (So, for me, BL2 and Civ5 are very much this. TPS not as good as 2, IMO, but for $7 ... The DLC alone easily a good deal at well more than that.)

引用自 Bankai9212：

Given how ttw has went

The Third Wun
Teen Turtle Wrestling
Turkey, Tuna on Wheat
This Thread's Wander

[Bankai9212]

Tiny Tina’s wonderland.

[gamename]

Oh, right. Forgot all about that.

[nicj]

引用自 level 1 archer：

not to repeat what everyone else in this thread has already said, but I'm going to repeat what everyone else in this thread already said.

- Long unskippable exposition and dialogue dumps that are (at best) kinda neat on playthrough 1, but quickly become incredibly annoying and destroy the pace on all subsequent playthroughs (they become annoying on the first playthrough as well, actually.)
(not as bad as BL3 at least. Though, in that game you can sometimes skip dialogue by save quitting, at least)

All Borderlands games have no dialogue skip so...You like the dialogue on Borderlands or not, this is an other issue.

Annoying NPC's. Not as bad as 3 in this regard, but still pretty bad. (Though, personally, I don't mind Pickle all that much. Janey's kinda cringe for sure tho)

The people like bl1 characters and Jack. Well.

Dudes just don't be dropping stuff. The grinder mechanic is really cool, dont get me wrong, but I think they got it in their heads that they didn't need to have that many consistent farms because they had the grinder instead, and that's just realllly not as fun. Download the community patch to fix this.

No. The bosses weren't respawnable at launch.
They managed it after. Almost all the bosses drop blue uniques gears and / or legendaries.
Only the Darksiders and Maureen don't.
RK5 has a lootpool bug (he's supposed to loot sham and hellfire) but this is an other problem.
But yes, too many legendaries world drops yet. Gearbox patched the game until 2016 but didn't put the remaining legendaries on bosses and didn't manage RK5 bug.

Poor endgame. Which is unfortunate, because (unlike BL2) what endgame is there is actually playable and even enjoyable for casual players

The circumstances...All Australian video games industries shut down and the game didn't get good sale... Gearbox basically had Luxy space dlc code (2k Australia gave it) but the game wasn't loved and they aren't australian so..

The story scales WAYYY too quickly compared to your level. In BL2, you can reasonably get by without doing more than a handful of sidequests, so long as you're grinding for loot every now and then (which most players do anyways, because loot is good). In BLPS, a lot of side quests feel almost mandatory if you wanna stay on level, unless you wanna grind Darksiders for half an hour (which I oftentimes do)

Both have advantage and issue.
In BL2, the sidequests had too much diminushing returns , especially when bl2 scaling is higher compared to TPS scaling, you must faster change the gears in bl2 comparing to TPS thus. But yeah, most of players like to level up w/o doing the sidequests (or almost)

some people don't like the Oz mechanic. These people are wrong and bad, but it is what it is

Yes. Community issue instead of game issue so

[Sir Dookface McFerretballs]

It's still less cringe than Borderlands 3.

[.KaTo]

its a good borderlands game, but when it came out the players were not happy with this game, they wanted something like borderland3, but the game is good. Just all the hardcore-edge lord gamers call this game bad cuz it is some kind of circlejerk at this moment to call this game bad.