Horde night Spawn Mechanics

[Ozarck]

Do the Horde Nights have limits on the number of zombies to spawn over the night? I remember in Alpha 21 I could clear all zombies by about 2 AM, and no more would spawn all night. The way I understand it, wasn't the limit something like 64 total spawns per player?

Now, it seems they spawn continuously until 4 am. I killed 113 zombies, which I thought was well above the max for a horde night. at the end of the night 15 minutes before dawn, a squad of vultures and something that spits (maybe that was also the vultures) descended on me and stun locked me. I died at 3:45 or so, thanks to at least three vultures and the rest of the Horde. I got a screenshot of my killcount before and after the Horde night (244 to 357 or so).

[Ozarck]

For more context, I am playing on Scavenger difficulty, with standard xp gain, and have reached level 12 or 13 or so.

[Tox]

as part of 1.0, they altered horde night to persist right through to 4am even on the first bloodmoon; it can be quite rough if unprepared, but as much as it intensifies things I personally think it's a good move and if anything it really amplifies the difficulty of early game thus granting a stronger sense of reward when you finally cross that threshold of mass-producing ammo to see you through horde nights.

[Ozarck]

Thanks for the info. I suspected that was what had happened, but I had looked through the changelogs a couple times and never saw that they had done any changes to horde night spawning. Where does one find that info?

As for me, I can see why people build cheese bases. Even in Alpha 20, zombies came so fast I barely had time to reload the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ weapons I had available at the time. And normal defenses seem pretty underwhelming.

I'm not sure i find it all that rewarding either. it feels more punishing than rewarding,
Well, I might have survived if I had simply rode away, as I considered doing.
Watching eight zombies trail behind you for six in game hours feels ... not all that rewarding either, if maybe a tad amusing.

[Tox]

Originally posted by Ozarck:

Thanks for the info. I suspected that was what had happened, but I had looked through the changelogs a couple times and never saw that they had done any changes to horde night spawning. Where does one find that info?

It was definitely mentioned explicitly somewhere...
Either it was in the changelogs or something mentioned in the dev streams... gimme a sec to scan the changelogs and see if it's mentioned there.

[Tox]

Hmm, must have been something that was fleetingly mentioned during the dev streams but didn't make it in as a patch note.
They definitely did say they made changes so that early stage bloodmoon spawns would last through to 4am, though.

[EX01]

Blood moons were trivial.
I like this change.

[Ozarck]

Originally posted by Tox:

Hmm, must have been something that was fleetingly mentioned during the dev streams but didn't make it in as a patch note.
They definitely did say they made changes so that early stage bloodmoon spawns would last through to 4am, though.

It's a fairly significant change not to make it into the changelog. After all, it's part of the central mechanic of the game: one that the game is literally named about.

[Ozarck]

Originally posted by EX01:

Blood moons were trivial.
I like this change.

There's always someone who feels the need to minimize someone else's experience in these threads. I don't know what you do to make them trivial , but I am not so sure that is the average player's experience, and it certainly isn't mine. In Alpha 20 I felt quite relieved and pleased when i managed to kill off a horde, and if i only survived the night without killing the horde, well, at least I knew it was possible. Now .. well, in a certain sense, one could still consider Blood moons trivial, since all you have to do is drive away for six game hours, adn then kill eight zombies. Easy.

[Tox]

Originally posted by Ozarck:

Originally posted by EX01:

Blood moons were trivial.
I like this change.

There's always someone who feels the need to minimize someone else's experience in these threads. I don't know what you do to make them trivial , but I am not so sure that is the average player's experience, and it certainly isn't mine. In Alpha 20 I felt quite relieved and pleased when i managed to kill off a horde, and if i only survived the night without killing the horde, well, at least I knew it was possible. Now .. well, in a certain sense, one could still consider Blood moons trivial, since all you have to do is drive away for six game hours, adn then kill eight zombies. Easy.

to be fair, i understand why you liked the early hordes ending at a certain hour; it was often my saving grace too.
I was super concerned about how i'd go lasting through to 4am on my first horde, but it is doable even if you have to suffer significant damage to your base and recuperate after.

I genuinely encourage you to adapt to it where possible, it'll grant you more confidence in your overall early game experience <3

[Ozarck]

Originally posted by Tox:

to be fair, i understand why you liked the early hordes ending at a certain hour; it was often my saving grace too.
I was super concerned about how i'd go lasting through to 4am on my first horde, but it is doable even if you have to suffer significant damage to your base and recuperate after.

I genuinely encourage you to adapt to it where possible, it'll grant you more confidence in your overall early game experience <3

I appreciate that. I don;t know that I'll be able to manage that without a better understanding of the game flow and a lot of tips and tricks from more experienced players.

That, or adjusting the frequency of Blood Moons. I might end up doing that, at least until/if I get better at whatever it is I need to get better at to be prepared for the long hordes.

[Shurenai]

Originally posted by Ozarck:

Do the Horde Nights have limits on the number of zombies to spawn over the night? I remember in Alpha 21 I could clear all zombies by about 2 AM, and no more would spawn all night. The way I understand it, wasn't the limit something like 64 total spawns per player?

Now, it seems they spawn continuously until 4 am. I killed 113 zombies, which I thought was well above the max for a horde night. at the end of the night 15 minutes before dawn, a squad of vultures and something that spits (maybe that was also the vultures) descended on me and stun locked me. I died at 3:45 or so, thanks to at least three vultures and the rest of the Horde. I got a screenshot of my killcount before and after the Horde night (244 to 357 or so).

Just to clarify something, Blood Moon Count is the setting you are thinking of for '64 total spawns per player'. This setting determines how many zombies are alive at one time- Not how many will spawn over the course of the night.

If the spawn pool is 50,000 and your BMC is 64, Then there will only ever be 64 zombies alive at once, and when you kill one, a new one spawns and there are 49,999 zombies left to spawn.

The total number and difficulty(Ie, seeing cops/demolishers/radiateds) of spawns is determined by your Gamestage. In A21, Low gamestages had an incredibly low spawn count that could be exhausted in an ingame hour or two on your first couple horde nights depending on your settings. In 1.0 this was rebalanced to make it more likely to last a full night.


RE one of your later replies, Fair warning that adjusting settings to try and compensate for this can result in much harder hordes than you're expecting. Because it's based on gamestage, If you for example make your horde night every 14th day, then you're dealing with a horde night equivalent to that increase- You would have less frequent but more difficult horde nights, so you must prepare accordingly.

Same for changing other settings, Contrary to your immediate thought, Increasing your exp gain to 300% would make horde nights that much harder for you- Because you're gaining 3x as many levels in the same period of time, And gamestage is heavily influenced (primarily, even) by player level. So counterintuitively, you'd want to Lower exp to get easier horde nights.

Likewise to day length; Increasing it to 2 hours would, intuitively, make you feel like you have more time to prepare. But it counterintuitively also gives you more time to gain levels and increase your game stage, which will make your horde night harder.

Say you increased day length to 2 hours, and exp to 300% and your horde night to the 14th day, You would actually be dealing with a day 14 horde night roughly equivalent to a day 84 horde night due to compounding effect.

In short, Be careful how you try to tune your settings if you want to alleviate some of the pressure. :)

[Ozarck]

I knew about the 64 alive in the world thing, from the wiki. the explanations there could use some tweaking for simplicity though.

THe reason I started this thread was because, in the previous version I could finish a horde around 2 AM if I got good loot and stuff, but in this version, there is no end to the zombies. Which means, not only do you simply have to survive the night instead of hoping to "beat" the horde, now, killing zombies fast is counterproductive, since a) they respawn instantly and not very far away, and b) you spend more ammo / durability the faster you kill.

So, riding a bike around for six hours and killing eight zombies gets you through the night, same as killing 113 zombies would. The only downside is less xp, which you've just made a compellign case is not a downside at all.

As for 'less frequent but more difficult horde nights"
Would cahinging the horde night frequency really make them more difficult? wouldn't the day 14 horde be roughly equivalent to the day 14 horde either way? All you'd be doing is skipping every otehr horde night, saving ammo and durability, and losing out on some XP, which again, would slow your gamestage growth

[Shurenai]

Originally posted by Ozarck:

I knew about the 64 alive in the world thing, from the wiki. the explanations there could use some tweaking for simplicity though.

THe reason I started this thread was because, in the previous version I could finish a horde around 2 AM if I got good loot and stuff, but in this version, there is no end to the zombies. Which means, not only do you simply have to survive the night instead of hoping to "beat" the horde, now, killing zombies fast is counterproductive, since a) they respawn instantly and not very far away, and b) you spend more ammo / durability the faster you kill.

So, riding a bike around for six hours and killing eight zombies gets you through the night, same as killing 113 zombies would. The only downside is less xp, which you've just made a compellign case is not a downside at all.

As for 'less frequent but more difficult horde nights"
Would cahinging the horde night frequency really make them more difficult? wouldn't the day 14 horde be roughly equivalent to the day 14 horde either way? All you'd be doing is skipping every otehr horde night, saving ammo and durability, and losing out on some XP, which again, would slow your gamestage growth

To the last paragraph, yes, in essence. My point was to instill the importance of planning FOR a 14 day horde night, instead of expecting your 'First' horde night to be equivalent to a normal 7 day horde. Alot of people skip that step and just prepare as they would normally, thinking they just need to prepare for the normally easy 7th day horde.

Basically, by skipping every other horde it's harder to get a grasp on how much more difficult it's become each time- Your second horde night in a 14 day horde world is likely to have demolishers, for example, when you're normally used to having them on the 4th or 5th horde night on default.

If you're Aware of that difference and plan for it, it's all good. Else, big booms.

[zombygunner]

Well at least some people got the game they wanted.

[Wyrm]

Just lived through my first 1.0 horde night. Or.. I died twice and my walls have holes everywhere and I ran out of almost all my ammo. I run longest possible days and was used to hordes running out much earlier than 4 am, especially in the beginning.

It gets quite exhausting having a horde night last all night. Especially whan playing solo.

Well, next night I will have much more defences. And hopefully something better than pipe-weapons. My low rate of fire was probably the greatest problem for me.

I think I will tweak AI damage vs blocks a bit to make my poor walls last a bit longer.