YOU CAN JUST CRAFT GUNS IMMEDIATELY!?

[Aevi_]

I haven't played for a year or two but I remember that you couldn't craft pipe shotguns without any skill points?

[Shurenai]

You were always able to craft a blunderbuss even without points. Now there's just more early game options, one for each weapon type.

[Gwizzz]

The pipe guns are really so so. The shotgun is one shot like the blunderbuss was, and also suffers from a long reload time making it practically a suicide weapon. You shoot at a wolf and don't kill it in one shot.. you're gonna die before you can get off a second shot. The pistol revolver is 6 rounds so it gives you a little more bang for the buck but also has a long reload time. The rifle is one shot and with a long reload; shooting deer is OK, shooting a bear is not recommended. The pipe SMG holds 15 rounds of 7.62 and is the best of the starter guns if you have the ammo to feed it.

[The_Pastmaster]

Yes, you can craft some very crappy guns right out the gate. I still prefer Melee/Bow combo early game.

[𝐎ᥣᑯ𝐑𝖾ᑯ𝐅ⱺ𝗑]

The pipe pistol fires 6 mosquito bites. Best get on something high to use it.

[D.A.R.K.]

Originally posted by E42_HHBFNE3:

I haven't played for a year or two but I remember that you couldn't craft pipe shotguns without any skill points?

Pipe weapons are from A20, previous version we didn't have them.

Yes, we can craft guns right after spawning if you have the materials, but Pipe guns are really ♥♥♥♥, they are great for early game, allow us to deal with things and sustain our survival, but they are really REALLY ♥♥♥♥, you should try to use them, besides the Pipe Machine Gun, all others are horrible... They are balanced to early game, but after day 3 they don't work as good as day 1.

[mONONOke_____]

the revolver and the machine gun are a little bit too op in early game.
the ammo should get crafted by lead, coal and potassium.
(all simple to find and collect)
a new ammo-type.

[D.A.R.K.]

Originally posted by mONONOke_____:

the revolver and the machine gun are a little bit too op in early game.
the ammo should get crafted by lead, coal and potassium.
all simple to find and collect.

They removed that weird bullet because make no sense to have even more ammo in the game, it make sense that you use the ammo proper for that type of weapon, isn't hard to find, isn't hard to buy.

[mONONOke_____]

Originally posted by D.A.R.K.:

Originally posted by mONONOke_____:

the revolver and the machine gun are a little bit too op in early game.
the ammo should get crafted by lead, coal and potassium.
all simple to find and collect.

They removed that weird bullet because make no sense to have even more ammo in the game, it make sense that you use the ammo proper for that type of weapon, isn't hard to find, isn't hard to buy.

y, but thats the problem (in early game).
too early good weapons and too early too much ammo.
looting and buying good (and much) ammo should be locked to a stage (or perk).
imo - i want more survival.

[D.A.R.K.]

Originally posted by mONONOke_____:

Originally posted by D.A.R.K.:

They removed that weird bullet because make no sense to have even more ammo in the game, it make sense that you use the ammo proper for that type of weapon, isn't hard to find, isn't hard to buy.

y, but thats the problem (in early game).
too early good weapons and too early too much ammo.
looting and buying good (and much) ammo should be locked to a stage (or perk).
imo - i want more survival.

For this it would require you to install a mod to balance everything, because we don't have needs in 7 Days to Die vanilla. For example: Resources are plenty everywhere, you can find a Workbench and Forge ready for use inside the traders, and inside a bunch of POIs that don't change... With a stone axe you can mine iron and, with a stone shovel, you can dig clay... Done, you have Forged Iron in day 1 right after finishing the tutorial quest.

7 Days to Die is NOT about finding resources, but more about surviving the 7th night. It's easy to find pretty much everything in the game. Another example is wrench, it's easy to find wrench inside car trunks and tool boxes... With that you can mine Forged Steel for a lot mechanical and electric items around the city... Electrical Parts and Mechanical Parts as well... You won't be able to craft but you already have the resource ready to use.

So... Yeah, an extra type of ammo just to use in early weapons seems to be completely unnecessary, it's simply better to allow the proper type of ammo go inside the proper type of weapon.

[mONONOke_____]

Originally posted by D.A.R.K.:

Originally posted by mONONOke_____:

y, but thats the problem (in early game).
too early good weapons and too early too much ammo.
looting and buying good (and much) ammo should be locked to a stage (or perk).
imo - i want more survival.

For this it would require you to install a mod to balance everything, because we don't have needs in 7 Days to Die vanilla. For example: Resources are plenty everywhere, you can find a Workbench and Forge ready for use inside the traders, and inside a bunch of POIs that don't change... With a stone axe you can mine iron and, with a stone shovel, you can dig clay... Done, you have Forged Iron in day 1 right after finishing the tutorial quest.

7 Days to Die is NOT about finding resources, but more about surviving the 7th night. It's easy to find pretty much everything in the game. Another example is wrench, it's easy to find wrench inside car trunks and tool boxes... With that you can mine Forged Steel for a lot mechanical and electric items around the city... Electrical Parts and Mechanical Parts as well... You won't be able to craft but you already have the resource ready to use.

So... Yeah, an extra type of ammo just to use in early weapons seems to be completely unnecessary, it's simply better to allow the proper type of ammo go inside the proper type of weapon.

i would agree, that an extra type of ammo is unnecessary.
but as long u can find tons of ammo (and pipe weapons) early on -
(good pipe weapons - revolver and machine gun)
a good pipe machine gun is equal to an (orange) ak?!

[Uncle Al]

Originally posted by D.A.R.K.:

Originally posted by mONONOke_____:

y, but thats the problem (in early game).
too early good weapons and too early too much ammo.
looting and buying good (and much) ammo should be locked to a stage (or perk).
imo - i want more survival.

For this it would require you to install a mod to balance everything, because we don't have needs in 7 Days to Die vanilla. For example: Resources are plenty everywhere, you can find a Workbench and Forge ready for use inside the traders, and inside a bunch of POIs that don't change... With a stone axe you can mine iron and, with a stone shovel, you can dig clay... Done, you have Forged Iron in day 1 right after finishing the tutorial quest.

7 Days to Die is NOT about finding resources, but more about surviving the 7th night. It's easy to find pretty much everything in the game. Another example is wrench, it's easy to find wrench inside car trunks and tool boxes... With that you can mine Forged Steel for a lot mechanical and electric items around the city... Electrical Parts and Mechanical Parts as well... You won't be able to craft but you already have the resource ready to use.

So... Yeah, an extra type of ammo just to use in early weapons seems to be completely unnecessary, it's simply better to allow the proper type of ammo go inside the proper type of weapon.

Funnily enough quite a bit of that has been addressed in A20:

Working work stations don't exist anymore, all workstations spawn as broken, so no more working forge or workbench in the trader. You can still get a forge day one by dropping a point into advanced engineering, but workbenches are a little trickier.

The drop rate on wrenches has been massively reduced. I haven't checked the actual XML but I wouldn't be surprised if they cannot drop at all until you hit the second loot tier (loot stage 12). Putting a point into salvaging and scrounging up 6 mechanical parts (which can take a little while) is usually the quicker way to getting a wrench now, rather than just pulling one out of a sink.

Definitely agree that pipe guns using regular ammo is a good move. They need to do the damage they do for game balance, so pipe guns wouldn't do any less damage with improvised ammo. If they used an easily craftable ammo type like blunderbusses used to, the only effect is that you can freely use your pipe guns without worrying you're burning up your ammo stocks for when you actually find a proper gun.

[D.A.R.K.]

Originally posted by mONONOke_____:

Originally posted by D.A.R.K.:

For this it would require you to install a mod to balance everything, because we don't have needs in 7 Days to Die vanilla. For example: Resources are plenty everywhere, you can find a Workbench and Forge ready for use inside the traders, and inside a bunch of POIs that don't change... With a stone axe you can mine iron and, with a stone shovel, you can dig clay... Done, you have Forged Iron in day 1 right after finishing the tutorial quest.

7 Days to Die is NOT about finding resources, but more about surviving the 7th night. It's easy to find pretty much everything in the game. Another example is wrench, it's easy to find wrench inside car trunks and tool boxes... With that you can mine Forged Steel for a lot mechanical and electric items around the city... Electrical Parts and Mechanical Parts as well... You won't be able to craft but you already have the resource ready to use.

So... Yeah, an extra type of ammo just to use in early weapons seems to be completely unnecessary, it's simply better to allow the proper type of ammo go inside the proper type of weapon.

i would agree, that an extra type of ammo is unnecessary.
but as long u can find tons of ammo (and pipe weapons) early on -
(good pipe weapons - revolver and machine gun)
a good pipe machine gun is equal to an (orange) ak?!

People say Pipe Revolver is good, but IMO it's ♥♥♥♥ because of the reloading time, on the other hand, Pipe Machine Gun should receive a nerf because it's pretty good, and you can stay with it for a long time before upgrading to AK. I'm testing here which one is better between Pipe Machine Gun and AK, there's something important to note... Pipe Machine Gun has no variations, all Pipe Machine Gun of the same tier is the same. AK, however, the status can vary based on luck on get a little better or little worse status, so you can find T1 AK that is better than a T2 AK.

I'm testing here with 7 random AKs of each tier, I'm gonna select the best and the worst of each tier, and compare with the Pipe Machine Gun to see how good the PMG can be: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2735336014

Ok... I'm back with the results:
PMG T1 and T2 will always be worst than an AK T1.
PMG T3 can be better than an AK T1.
PMG T6 can be better than an AK T4.
PMG T6 will always be worst than an AK T5 and T6.

Important note: I'm checking purely status, we could have attachments that can go in one weapon and not in another.

In conclusion: A looted PMG T6 could be better than a crafted AK T4. The chance of looting a PMG T6 is higher than a AK T4 because of how LS works and that PMG are "early" game weapons. Yeah PMGs are too good to be an early weapon like the others.

[D.A.R.K.]

Originally posted by Uncle Al:

Originally posted by D.A.R.K.:

For this it would require you to install a mod to balance everything, because we don't have needs in 7 Days to Die vanilla. For example: Resources are plenty everywhere, you can find a Workbench and Forge ready for use inside the traders, and inside a bunch of POIs that don't change... With a stone axe you can mine iron and, with a stone shovel, you can dig clay... Done, you have Forged Iron in day 1 right after finishing the tutorial quest.

7 Days to Die is NOT about finding resources, but more about surviving the 7th night. It's easy to find pretty much everything in the game. Another example is wrench, it's easy to find wrench inside car trunks and tool boxes... With that you can mine Forged Steel for a lot mechanical and electric items around the city... Electrical Parts and Mechanical Parts as well... You won't be able to craft but you already have the resource ready to use.

So... Yeah, an extra type of ammo just to use in early weapons seems to be completely unnecessary, it's simply better to allow the proper type of ammo go inside the proper type of weapon.

Funnily enough quite a bit of that has been addressed in A20:

Working work stations don't exist anymore, all workstations spawn as broken, so no more working forge or workbench in the trader. You can still get a forge day one by dropping a point into advanced engineering, but workbenches are a little trickier.

The drop rate on wrenches has been massively reduced. I haven't checked the actual XML but I wouldn't be surprised if they cannot drop at all until you hit the second loot tier (loot stage 12). Putting a point into salvaging and scrounging up 6 mechanical parts (which can take a little while) is usually the quicker way to getting a wrench now, rather than just pulling one out of a sink.

Definitely agree that pipe guns using regular ammo is a good move. They need to do the damage they do for game balance, so pipe guns wouldn't do any less damage with improvised ammo. If they used an easily craftable ammo type like blunderbusses used to, the only effect is that you can freely use your pipe guns without worrying you're burning up your ammo stocks for when you actually find a proper gun.

The problem with the crafting station always broken is that they still have 50% of give the recipe of the crafting station, so we don't even need to spend points on perk.

[The_Pastmaster]

Originally posted by D.A.R.K.:

Originally posted by Uncle Al:

Funnily enough quite a bit of that has been addressed in A20:

Working work stations don't exist anymore, all workstations spawn as broken, so no more working forge or workbench in the trader. You can still get a forge day one by dropping a point into advanced engineering, but workbenches are a little trickier.

The drop rate on wrenches has been massively reduced. I haven't checked the actual XML but I wouldn't be surprised if they cannot drop at all until you hit the second loot tier (loot stage 12). Putting a point into salvaging and scrounging up 6 mechanical parts (which can take a little while) is usually the quicker way to getting a wrench now, rather than just pulling one out of a sink.

Definitely agree that pipe guns using regular ammo is a good move. They need to do the damage they do for game balance, so pipe guns wouldn't do any less damage with improvised ammo. If they used an easily craftable ammo type like blunderbusses used to, the only effect is that you can freely use your pipe guns without worrying you're burning up your ammo stocks for when you actually find a proper gun.

The problem with the crafting station always broken is that they still have 50% of give the recipe of the crafting station, so we don't even need to spend points on perk.

You sure it's 50%? I've looted about 20 and I had to give up and go to Advanced Engineering and I'm still SOL because I need a wrench and a hammer. I've had a few wrenches but I've gotten ONE hammer and I forgot I needed it and sold it. >_<

Hey, where's the Working Stiff Factory/big store?

[D.A.R.K.]

Originally posted by The_Pastmaster:

Originally posted by D.A.R.K.:

The problem with the crafting station always broken is that they still have 50% of give the recipe of the crafting station, so we don't even need to spend points on perk.

You sure it's 50%? I've looted about 20 and I had to give up and go to Advanced Engineering and I'm still SOL because I need a wrench and a hammer. I've had a few wrenches but I've gotten ONE hammer and I forgot I needed it and sold it. >_<

Hey, where's the Working Stiff Factory/big store?

To be honest I don't know how the percentage of chance to get the schematic, but before A20 was 50%. I can test that out right now, I'm going to spawn 10 of each broken crafting station (workbench, forge and cement mixer) and see the percentage between them. If 10 isn't enough, I could go higher, but I didn't want to spend too much time with this.

Let me check it real quick.