Do you have to scrap previous items in order to "upgrade" them?

[Jarrod]

It seems really odd that you can upgrade the level of your weapons, armor, and tools, and there isn't any way to actually upgrade them, you just scrap the old ones and create the new ones. Just seems like a colossal waste of resources for no reason. Why not just allow you to craft the upgrade using the difference in materials, like you do with blocks?

[Scyris]

That would honestly be a great system to come to the game if you ask me, but tfp most likely won't do it, as they are pretty lazy it feels and rarely add anything of value to the game anymore for the last few years.

[Jarrod]

Originally posted by Scyris:

That would honestly be a great system to come to the game if you ask me, but tfp most likely won't do it, as they are pretty lazy it feels and rarely add anything of value to the game anymore for the last few years.

I passed off stuff like this years ago when I played because it was just a alpha or whatever. Now it says "1.0" so there aren't really many excuses left for stuff like this... it's a shame

[Jarrod]

Oh good someone moved my thread to Questions & Answers so now no one will see the post. Thanks moderator.

[Serious]

When you srap an item you get just the very basic material like 1 part out of it so what exactly would you simplify with this?

As example you want to create a impact driver lv6 and you currently have lv4 one.
You scrap the lv4 and you get 1 motor part out of it. Everything else like the ~100 steel and the 5 other motor parts needs to be from your storage/forge anway.

But you don't need to scrap the old ones at all. You can also store them in case you lose your new item (bug, setting).

[Jarrod]

Originally posted by Serious:

When you srap an item you get just the very basic material like 1 part out of it so what exactly would you simplify with this?

As example you want to create a impact driver lv6 and you currently have lv4 one.
You scrap the lv4 and you get 1 motor part out of it. Everything else like the ~100 steel and the 5 other motor parts needs to be from your storage/forge anway.

But you don't need to scrap the old ones at all. You can also store them in case you lose your new item (bug, setting).

Well first of all it just feels like very odd doing it this way. It makes the progression feel very... not thought out. Having to destroy your previous tool just because you got a slightly better version that you can craft? Most games would just let you upgrade from it, not create a new one. It'd be less clicking around and moving mods and stuff.

And like I said already, it's a waste of materials. Instead of scrapping and only getting 1 motor part towards the level 6 impact driver, why not just let you upgrade it for the 2 difference? (or whatever it is)

It just feels like it's not properly implemented.

[Serious]

The difference is actually anything except the 1 motor part.

With difference in let's say complete materials between e.g. a new builded lv4 and lv6 impact driver? let's say 2 motor parts and 40 steel ....
Then the answer is simple. This would drastically reduce the resource management and speed up the progression.
Most player agree that 7d2d was/is to easy.
Also fun pimps changed some important points to slow the progression so an upgrade system like this won't fit at all.

And actually it would be just 1 klick less, the S click on your old tool/weapon. Except you want to upgrade the tool without any creating time. This would also go against their current "slower progression" update.

Feelings are just feelings, important and so on, but difficult to discuss and neither good nor bad, right nor wrong.
For me the system is alright, though upgrade system could work also, but it would be alot of work for a minimal change (subjectiv).

[Brevan]

If you were allowed to upgrade the rank 4 Impact Driver to rank 6 with any recipe, then the forum would be flooded by folks triggered by the lack of realism.

Have you tried older alphas? I think Alpha 16 had something similar to what you're talking about. I vaguely recall needing to find high quality gun parts to make a high quality gun, but I forget if you could swap parts out of the gun. I'm pretty confident you could swap out a low quality engine for a high quality engine to make the minibike go faster (way faster than nowadays). One of the advantages to owning a game that changes quite a bit each year is that you can go back a few years and play a very different game (not better or worse, just different).

If you don't mind just returning to A21, then I recall Darkness Falls (overhaul mod that won't be updated to v1.0 any time soon) still has the Workbench feature were you can combine items to repair and improve the quality of one of them (pretty sure this was from the A16 era as well). Undead Legacy (another popular overhaul) had a Recycling Station that would break down items like an Impact Driver into more than just 1 Motor Tool Part, so you might like that too.

[Jarrod]

Originally posted by Serious:

The difference is actually anything except the 1 motor part.

With difference in let's say complete materials between e.g. a new builded lv4 and lv6 impact driver? let's say 2 motor parts and 40 steel ....
Then the answer is simple. This would drastically reduce the resource management and speed up the progression.
Most player agree that 7d2d was/is to easy.
Also fun pimps changed some important points to slow the progression so an upgrade system like this won't fit at all.

And actually it would be just 1 klick less, the S click on your old tool/weapon. Except you want to upgrade the tool without any creating time. This would also go against their current "slower progression" update.

Feelings are just feelings, important and so on, but difficult to discuss and neither good nor bad, right nor wrong.
For me the system is alright, though upgrade system could work also, but it would be alot of work for a minimal change (subjectiv).

Purposefully wanting slower progression is one thing, having a system that doesn't make sense and takes physical time clicking around menus is another. It's not just 1 "klick", it's multiple. If you want to transfer over mods, you have to open the mod menu and remove the mods. Then scrap the old item. Then you open the mod menu for the new item and put them in. Then you replace the spot on your hotbar with the item (less important, but still part of a process). It does not in any way go against the "progression" of the game, it just feels like a waste of both resources and time.

Originally posted by Brevan:

If you were allowed to upgrade the rank 4 Impact Driver to rank 6 with any recipe, then the forum would be flooded by folks triggered by the lack of realism.

Have you tried older alphas? I think Alpha 16 had something similar to what you're talking about. I vaguely recall needing to find high quality gun parts to make a high quality gun, but I forget if you could swap parts out of the gun. I'm pretty confident you could swap out a low quality engine for a high quality engine to make the minibike go faster (way faster than nowadays). One of the advantages to owning a game that changes quite a bit each year is that you can go back a few years and play a very different game (not better or worse, just different).

If you don't mind just returning to A21, then I recall Darkness Falls (overhaul mod that won't be updated to v1.0 any time soon) still has the Workbench feature were you can combine items to repair and improve the quality of one of them (pretty sure this was from the A16 era as well). Undead Legacy (another popular overhaul) had a Recycling Station that would break down items like an Impact Driver into more than just 1 Motor Tool Part, so you might like that too.

How would upgrading a tool you already possess be "unrealistic"? What is physically the difference between a level 1 spear and a level 5 spear? It's just stats. Also why is realism a focus? For some reason I eat cans and jars after using them, everything is made out of blocks that you can easily instantly shapeshift into anything you want, workbenches somehow automatically craft recipes without power, same with the other crafting buildings like the campfire and forge, and lest we forget that there are zombies in this game. I don't think realism is the focus at all, anyone who would complain would be shouting at the clouds.

Also, like I already said, I've played this game a few times over the years. Checking my account, I bought the game in 2016. As seems to be custom for this game for some reason, it's normal for people to pick and choose certain alphas. But that's not the point, the game is currently "released", so it should be in the best condition it's ever been in. Based on what people are saying, this is apparently the worst version the game has been, which is very sad.

[Serious]

Originally posted by Jarrod:

Also, like I already said, I've played this game a few times over the years. Checking my account, I bought the game in 2016. As seems to be custom for this game for some reason, it's normal for people to pick and choose certain alphas. But that's not the point, the game is currently "released", so it should be in the best condition it's ever been in. Based on what people are saying, this is apparently the worst version the game has been, which is very sad.

Don't let a few angry and dissapointed people mislead you that the game is currently of lower quality as it was before.
The amount of players new and old is very high and the amount of negative feedback rather low compared to other games and the amount of players.

Some of the feedback is defintly reasonable and it's very likely they will adjust and balance a few things over the next months/years. But just because there are 50 forum users who post again and again they don't like the new armor system or whatever doesn't mean the other 50k player don't like it.
You don't like the current item (creation/upgrade) system, that's ok, but just your opinion. Not an objectiv "this implementation is bad".

[Jarrod]

Originally posted by Serious:

Originally posted by Jarrod:

Also, like I already said, I've played this game a few times over the years. Checking my account, I bought the game in 2016. As seems to be custom for this game for some reason, it's normal for people to pick and choose certain alphas. But that's not the point, the game is currently "released", so it should be in the best condition it's ever been in. Based on what people are saying, this is apparently the worst version the game has been, which is very sad.

Don't let a few angry and dissapointed people mislead you that the game is currently of lower quality as it was before.
The amount of players new and old is very high and the amount of negative feedback rather low compared to other games and the amount of players.

Some of the feedback is defintly reasonable and it's very likely they will adjust and balance a few things over the next months/years. But just because there are 50 forum users who post again and again they don't like the new armor system or whatever doesn't mean the other 50k player don't like it.
You don't like the current item (creation/upgrade) system, that's ok, but just your opinion. Not an objectiv "this implementation is bad".

I'd argue it is objectively bad, because optimization is a thing in all forms. There is no reason for it to be like this. In other games we'd call this "jank", but because "jank" is part of this game we call it a "feature". Just because it's not as important as other aspects that should be fixed doesn't mean it shouldn't be implemented. The game still feels extremely similar to how it did back in 2016 when I bought it. The same stuff that makes me go "why do I have to do it this way, this feels like it wasn't thought out" is still in the game.

[Serious]

objectivly bad is something you can proof.
But "why do I have to do it this way, this feels like it wasn't thought out" is quite the definition of an subjectiv point ;-)
Feeling is important sure, but don't start thinking that your opinion is a fact like so many others do.
The current system feels ok for me. Am i wrong or stupid or just different opinion?

And just because other games make things different, ... com on, who cares.
Even the best games have their flaws and if every game would make everything equal there won't be any reason for more than 1 game. ;)


Probably a point you can check are mods. I'm pretty sure you will find a mod that will please your upgrade system.

[Jarrod]

Originally posted by Serious:

objectivly bad is something you can proof.
But "why do I have to do it this way, this feels like it wasn't thought out" is quite the definition of an subjectiv point ;-)
Feeling is important sure, but don't start thinking that your opinion is a fact like so many others do.
The current system feels ok for me. Am i wrong or stupid or just different opinion?

And just because other games make things different, ... com on, who cares.
Even the best games have their flaws and if every game would make everything equal there won't be any reason for more than 1 game. ;)


Probably a point you can check are mods. I'm pretty sure you will find a mod that will please your upgrade system.

Here's what it feels like: They added weapons/tools. They added the ability to scrap them. Then they added the "upgraded" weapons/tools, but were too lazy (not calling the devs lazy, just lack of a better term) to implement a proper upgrade system, so people have to scrap, then make a new one for now. Then as everything went on, it just kept being put in the backburner until release. Unless I see a dev specifically say this was intended, then it will always feel like it was just something forgotten about. And if it IS intended, it's very poor design that does nothing but waste time.

Also I did not compare this game to other games, I said optimization is a thing in all aspects. Imagine if youtube recommended videos didn't go to the video, it went to their channel. If you wanted to watch the video, you have to go into their channel, click the videos tab, and then find the video you wanted to watch. What makes more sense, this way, or just having the video be clickable and viewable right there? It's not a game changer, it won't save you THAT much time, but it can make more sense to save time that you are otherwise wasting for no reason. (very rudimentary example, first thing that popped in my head lol) This has nothing to do with other games, it just has to do with designing your gameplay to be optimized and not annoying to the player and having them get nothing out of it. Having to scrap my previous weapon that I made not too long ago, because I found a few more magazines and upgraded it, and having to go through a whole debacle just to do it, is not good design. I don't get satisfaction from it, I don't gain from it, in fact all I do is lose resources that make no sense to lose.

And I already checked for mods, can't find one, unfortunately. A lot of the mods for this game change things to a drastic degree, like allowing you to craft from your storage from an infinite distance, by default. I just waste way too much time fiddling around in menus when all I want to do is bring my spear up from level 4 to 5.

[Serious]

For me it feels intended like:
Weapons, armor and tools are the most important survival items and the devs want you to invest some time, work (by clicks) and resources to create a better one.
So it is reasonable for me, it is good.
The point that some of the high tier items take up to 30 minutes at the workbench just strength my "that's how it's intended" feeling.

If you can't find a mod which is even a bit like your idea it might be a sign it's no important point for many player.
Probably it might be the fastest option to create a mod yourself, there are good vids about this on youtube.

[Jarrod]

Originally posted by Serious:

For me it feels intended like:
Weapons, armor and tools are the most important survival items and the devs want you to invest some time, work (by clicks) and resources to create a better one.
So it is reasonable for me, it is good.
The point that some of the high tier items take up to 30 minutes at the workbench just strength my "that's how it's intended" feeling.

If you can't find a mod which is even a bit like your idea it might be a sign it's no important point for many player.
Probably it might be the fastest option to create a mod yourself, there are good vids about this on youtube.

All of what you said can be done, just with the same item instead of having to create a new one and scrapping the old one for pennies.

Also, just because a mod wasn't made for it doesn't mean it' "no important point for many player". There are tons of games out there without mods for good ideas, doesn't mean they aren't good ideas. Not a very good excuse.

[Serious]

Where did i wrote it mean? I wrote it's a sign. Not a proof!
I also don't wrote or need any excuses as i don't think it's an actual problem.

But well, i won't say we will come to a conclusion here. I'm pretty sure if you want to see something like your idea you have to mod it yourself, or make a request to a modder to create it.