Rental Vending Machines and Bartering Rate

[Sir Duckyweather]

I've noticed that while I am wearing a Cigar (Bartering +10%) or wielding a .44 Magnum (Bartering +5% with Vol. 4 of Magnum Enforcer) it affects the cost of items I have put into a vending machine that I have rented. I assume this is either deliberate because Bartering values affect the prices of food and drink at standard vending machines or a side effect thereof.

The issue is that while you normally want to buy for less, you don't typically want to sell for less than you have to, and I'm not talking about the rate you set like -40% at the rented vending machine. At first I thought maybe the value was fixed based on what your Bartering rate was set to when placing it in the machine, but then I noticed that it changes dynamically based on my current Bartering rate. Honestly it could even be a bug too, either because it lowers the price and it shouldn't or it doesn't actually lower the price but erroneously displays that it does.

So I guess my question is, does the Bartering rate actually lower the amount earned from a rental vending machine or does it have no effect at all but simply displays the wrong sale price? I suppose it would be easy enough to test, but I haven't had the patience to wait 2-3 days between sales after also removing everything from my machine and intentionally only having one item in stock at a time while keeping a personal log of values with and without Bartering modifiers. Oh, and I assume the actual Better Barter skill itself is subject to the same mechanics as the Cigar and Magnum Enforcer temporary bonuses, but I have not yet tested that either.

[Sir Duckyweather]

TL;DR Version: Bartering rate has a negative impact on your profits from a rental vending machine when you access it after it has sold an item.

Apologies for reviving this thread, but it took a considerable amount of time to thoroughly experiment and find the answer. Originally I wasn't going to bother with testing but then soon after writing my above question I accidentally encountered the "feature" of losing all vending machine inventory when the rental period ends. D'oh! After that, I figured, why not.

I then tested with a bunch of Quality 5 Iron Chest Armor and other things of equal value. As in my previous post, I have both the Cigar and have read the relevant issue of Magnum Enforcer. I also at the time of testing had no points in Better Barter. Below are the results of my findings which show the base price, adjusted base price (-60%) to hopefully increase sale frequency, and finally the actual dukes received.

No Bartering bonuses on placing or receiving
Set price: 3,240 -60% = 1,295
Earned: 1,295

Both Bartering bonuses on placing and receiving
Set Price: 2,754 -60% = 1,101
Earned: 1,101

Both Bartering bonuses on placing but not receiving
Set Price: 2,754 -60% = 1,101
Earned: 1,295

No Bartering bonus on placing but both bonuses on receiving
Set Price: 3,240 -60% = 1,295
Earned: 1,101

What does this tell us? The player's Bartering rate has no effect when you place an item in your rented vending machine, but it does decrease your earnings when you check for sales while equipped with either of those two temporary Barter bonus items. In other words, you can wear whatever you want when you stock or restock your machine, but you should unequip the Cigar and .44 Magnum when you check the machine for the first time each new day.

Now, so far this has just been about the potential +5~15% Barter rate you can get from equipment bonuses. By the time I finally finished gathering the above data, I had a few unspent skill points. Just to be sure, I then increased my Better Barter to 2/5 (10%) and continued to test. As expected, here are the results of that.

No temporary Bartering bonuses on placing or receiving
Set price: 2,916 -60% = 1,166
Earned: 1,166

Both temporary Bartering bonuses on placing and receiving
Set Price: 2,430 -60% = 971
Earned: 971

So yes, the skill also affects rented machine revenue in a bad way as you can see the prices are even lower than they were when I was at 0/5 Better Barter. And for those curious, it would seem that the skill and the equipment bonuses work exactly the same way. Any of the tested items are also priced at 1,101 if I only have the Magnum equipped and not the Cigar while having 2/5 Better Barter, because both 2/5 of the skill and the bonus from the Cigar are 10% each.

If I had to speculate, the reason Bartering rate decreases the value of your sold items in a rented vending machine is likely an oversight from the rudimentary workings of the trading system. The only differences between buying from a trader and buying from a vending machine is that one of them has a smaller inventory and more personality (ba dum tss). Vending machines and traders both use the same system, so Bartering rates apply to both, though it is a little odd that being a better haggler means you can talk down the prices of food sold by a machine.

Anyway, because the rental vending machines follow the same rules of the trading system, the game doesn't differentiate between them and other vending machines or the trader. Normally lower prices are a good thing because you're buying cheaper, and the Bartering rate at least correctly increases sale values when you sell items to the trader. However, because you're not selling directly and instantaneously at the rental machine like you would the trader, you're simply putting the items in the machine's inventory which is then subject to the buying rates instead of the selling rates, which is probably also why you can sell items for so much more at a rented machine than you can at the trader. It's hard to say when or if they'll ever make adjustments to fix this messy system, but again, all of this final rant has just been conjecture on my part.

[JimmyIowa]

Good info. Sometimes I think about renting one just for the fun of it.

So aside from the pricing do things sell at a reasonable pace now? Back in 16 a vending machine would sell like 1 item for you per week even when you heavily discounted everything. There was no way to make back what you paid in rent.

[Lelo Mariin]

I asume this is online?

[Sir Duckyweather]

Originally posted by JimmyIowa:

So aside from the pricing do things sell at a reasonable pace now? Back in 16 a vending machine would sell like 1 item for you per week even when you heavily discounted everything. There was no way to make back what you paid in rent.

Eh, I wouldn't call it reasonable, but it's better than what you describe. If you throw a dozen items in it you might get one to sell every two or three days. If you fill the machine to max capacity then you might sell two or three items every two or three days. You can easily make back the 2,500 rental fee before the 30 days expiration if you put high value items in there. That's my experience with setting the items at -60% discount and I have no idea how much that actually affects sale frequency. Honestly you could probably be fine at -40% prices too but I typically put mine at -60% simply because I always have way too much crap to sell and even -60% is still a higher profit than selling directly to the trader.

Originally posted by Lelo Mariin:

I asume this is online?

No, I was playing single player. Items are purchased from rental vending machines by "phantom NPCs." Honestly that poses another question that I am definitely not testing: Do rented vending machines (or even the player-owned ones if those still exist in the secret stash) charge less for other players who purchase from the owner's machine if the other players have an increased Bartering rate? I wouldn't mind hearing others' tests but it's very unlikely I'd be able to test anything myself unless I can convince my brother to help me out.

[Lelo Mariin]

Phantom NPC's buying from vending machines.... Today I learned something new.
This was done at a trader?

I got some dukes to spare. Ill put up something for sale aswel

[Sir Duckyweather]

Originally posted by Lelo Mariin:

Phantom NPC's buying from vending machines.... Today I learned something new.
This was done at a trader?

I got some dukes to spare. Ill put up something for sale aswel

Yes, each trader location has 3 vending machines that can be rented by players. You can only have one machine rented at a time, unfortunately, and it doesn't even let you rent one at another location if you're already renting one elsewhere. Just be sure to pay attention to the expiration date because if that day comes and there's items in there it'll delete them.

[BodyBagger]

Can you still place vending machines wherever you want, or do they stay at the Trader's now?

[Sir Duckyweather]

Originally posted by BodyBagger:

Can you still place vending machines wherever you want, or do they stay at the Trader's now?

Well, there's two types of vending machines that players can sell items at. The rental ones are what this thread is about, which are stuck at the traders' locations. The other type is one actually owned by a player and can be placed in other locations. However, the player-owned variety can only sell items to other players, making them worthless for solo play. The "phantom NPCs" do not purchase items from vending machines you can place yourself. I actually haven't seen any of the vending machines you can obtain while playing A18 but I also haven't invested much into Better Barter and I'm thinking those might have only been purchased within the traders' secret stash when I last saw them in A17. It's quite likely the player-owned vending machines still exist in A18 and I merely haven't increased my skill high enough to see them.

[BodyBagger]

Originally posted by Sir Duckyweather:

Originally posted by BodyBagger:

Can you still place vending machines wherever you want, or do they stay at the Trader's now?

Well, there's two types of vending machines that players can sell items at. The rental ones are what this thread is about, which are stuck at the traders' locations. The other type is one actually owned by a player and can be placed in other locations. However, the player-owned variety can only sell items to other players, making them worthless for solo play. The "phantom NPCs" do not purchase items from vending machines you can place yourself. I actually haven't seen any of the vending machines you can obtain while playing A18 but I also haven't invested much into Better Barter and I'm thinking those might have only been purchased within the traders' secret stash when I last saw them in A17. It's quite likely the player-owned vending machines still exist in A18 and I merely haven't increased my skill high enough to see them.

Ok, thanks for info!