Choppy Experience, part 2

[tomatoes.dll]

I started another thread, HERE, but that thread was locked by Red Eagle because I did not provide my specs. As I explain in the thread, I am smart enough about computers to know what my system can do, what other games of various quality graphic requirements need and how they perform on my system, etc.

Apparently though, my decision not to include this information was enough to get me accused of trolling. Much appreciated after I spent money on the game yesterday and am trying to find a real answer to the problem, and/or bring it to the attention of the devs so it can be addressed.

With that said, I suppose I have no choice but to deal with the tier 1 mentality and post my specs so I can hear all the reasons my system is the problem before the real problem gets addressed.

Here are the recommended specs for the game (not the minimums, I might add):

Recommended:
OS: Windows 7 or higher
Processor: 3.0 Ghz Quad Core CPU or faster
Memory: 6 GB RAM
Graphics: Nvidia GTX 460 | Radeon HD 5850
Network: Broadband Internet connection

My System:
OS: Windows 7 64-bit
Processor: AMD Athlon 64 X 2 Dual-Core Processor 5000+
Memory: 16 GB RAM
Graphics: ATI Radion 5700 Series
Network: 50 mb/ps Broadband Internet

Now, as I said in my prior post, I play more than 100 games, and without fail, even in the worst of cases with any game I own, I get at LEAST 25 fps, and normally a great deal more than that--25 fps is the absolute low, and that's when I play ArmA2, a known system killing game. I am getting frames in 7D2D which go up to a top of about 30, and drop to about 4 - 12 with regularity. It is behaving like lag more than anything else, thus the reason I noted it seeming "Choppy."

I understand this game is in alpha, thus now is the right time to make the devs aware that people with reasonable systems, running comparable or more taxing games, are having this problem in some cases.

[Red Eagle LXIX]

引用自 WillHouse84：

PC specs: Touchsmart iQ820sc with C2D T9900 3,07Ghz 6MB, 8GB DDR2 1066, Samsung 840 Pro SSD, Windows 8.1 Pro x64, MXM II GeForce 9600M GT 512MB GDDR3 with 337.88 drivers, 26,5" 1920x1200 touchscreen 60hz, Logitech Z-Cinema usb for the audio.

Now when playing 7DTD with it, the performance is horrible combination of pop-in and stuttering even at 1024x768 and with a top of the line SSD. The game looks like it is straight from the 80´s at that resolution and still performance is horrid. What eats up the performance ?

The previous posts suggest that the game is heavily based on CPU performance, so could someone explain what exactly is happening under the hood to make a 3+Ghz 6MB cache T9900 basically useless with it ? Not making any sense to me..

No, I suggested that since his graphics card was enough it might be the CPU. In your instance the likely stutter is the lack of Graphics RAM since you've only got 512MB. Further I do not know whether you are running the 32bit or 64bit version of the game.
You should create your own thread for your own issues, and post the specifications requested and a copy of your output_log.txt. Instead of trying to start an argument, use logic, seek a solution to your problem. Each case is different as it is clear not everyone is having problems. It is also clear from your description alone your issue is different (poor performance in a different way likely due to the different cause as mentioned).

[tomatoes.dll]

Well, I think WillHouse[84] has made my case for me that it isn't the power behind the scenes of my system which are the problem with game performance in this case; he clearly has a monster of a system, and the game is giving him a choppy experience as well.

I'm not upset about the problem, for the record. I just think that the devs need to be aware it exists and address it now, in the Alpha phase. Because later, the performance issues will be brought up in reviews by pros and youtubers alike.

A game like this can often suffer from messy code as well, and sometimes simplification is required and can help with performance issues.

And of course, I know very little about how 'engines' work in gaming today, but Unity? Why?

[Red Eagle LXIX]

引用自 tomatoes.dll：

Well, I think WillHouse[84] has made my case for me that it isn't the power behind the scenes of my system which are the problem with game performance in this case; he clearly has a monster of a system, and the game is giving him a choppy experience as well.

Yet he has a very underpowered and low RAM video card for his system. Bottle-necks can occur at different places in a chain.

[Wille84FIN]

True. It is the (install 64-bit) version. Just to be sure i did it also manually (replacing files).

I know 512MB is not much, but it still does run many games (DX9 at least) with relatively high settings at 60-100fps like Doom3, Quake 4,CS GO, Slender The Arrival, both Amnesia games, Haunted Memories, RAGE, Oblivion, Fallout 3+NV, Dragon Age 1+2, FEAR 3 etc.

Then the slightly more effect heavy games like Alan Wake, Metro, Bioshock Infinite, State of Decay etc. run only at 720p (or 1280x800 16:10). Mainly because you cant disable some spesific effects to make it playable.

Also the 9600M GT is slightly overclocked via vBIOS (to 9700M GT clocks), wich of course does not remove the fact it has only a certain amount of vRAM, only dx10.1 max, 32 pipelines and a 128-bit bus.

I rather not start a new thread because it would just waste space.

"tomatoes.dll"

Well my system is really not something one would call a "monster system". True it has good parts for its time, but any modern PC easily outperforms it. To be honest the only investment that has made games playable to me so far, was the Samsung 840 Pro SSD. Also the ability to ditch the P7450 Core 2 Duo to T9900 surely helped a lot.

The separate MXM-II card (9600M GT) could also be replaced to 1GB one, but manufacturer locked (identification chip) built in the GPU itself limits the possible alternatives to basically zero..

[Rowdy Ronny]

引用自 WillHouse84：

Maybe it is because the developers have to make the game to run with the hardware they are given, not to make a game and the customer is responsible for the hardware to run the game. That is the main reason i always buy more and more games to consoles rather than PC.

"Rowdy Ronny"

What is the difference of optimizing a game from PC x86 platform to a "basically PC" x86 platform ? As i see it, the only difference is the custom drivers and the version of Linux with PlayStation 4 for example. So basically it is 90% just solely performance optimization (exactly what i need with PC).

And you mentioned Linux, well optimizing the game for PS4 is basically optimizing the game for Linux.

When you buy a game for a console it runs on that platform. I have a xbox 360 and have played games on it yet the graphics are worse than on PC (but that differs from PC to PC).
When you buy games on steam they can be cheap, for console you'd need to wait a year or two before there is a price drop from $60 per game.

A game these days is a script on an engine. That engine has it's advantages and disadvantages per platform. And you can't solve the engine problems directly you need to program around it, making difficult code. So the more platforms, the more exceptions in the code.

[Wille84FIN]

But as if i remember correctly, the X360 was PPC platform. So the current generation of consoles allow for more straight forward port from x86 platform to another x86 platform.
So basically i would imagine it is more of a driver based (graphics tweak) rather than the whole engine rewritten for PS4 for example.

[Red Eagle LXIX]

Not to stray too far, but even the new generation of consoles {xbox One, PS4} can't handle most modern games at a true 1080p (1920x1080). The real resolutions are often around 720p (1280x720) which are then scaled (read stretched) to 1080.

I suppose that is better than the PS3 and Xbox360 where the real/rendered resolution was often less than even 720p and stretched.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against consoles. You can find my Xbox profile easy enough. I use the same name/gamertag.

[Wille84FIN]

900p on PS4 usually. But i remember reading that the improved SDK´s allow more 1080p native games in the future, of course that remains to be seen. One would think that the PS4 would not run out of vRAM anytime soon, because of the 8GB amount of it. Of course the current OS takes it´s toll, but in the future they will shrink the OS footprint. The Jaguar CPU is rather weak too, but the amount of cores allows the dev´s to stretch its potential. Also dedicated chips and cpu´s to audio, video recording, OS etc. are a plus.

Still the whole point of this conversation is not to be able to play a game on PC at maximum resolution. The point is to be able to play it at all at any resolution. In my case the upgrade to new PC is not a 300-400euros video card, it is everything because of the AIO base i built it from.

Of course there comes a time for every component that it meets the end of its potential/potential upgrade choises, so the time comes when money has to be burned just to keep up with the demands on modern games for example.

I am just trying to delay the inevitable as long as possible, because i rather not spend so much money on PC as i used to do when younger. The last build i made got totally out of hand with phase cooler (Vapochill LS) and such. It was around 14.000euros.. The main thing those days was to be able to play everything maxed out, but these days its more like taking everything out from what you got. Customizing a AIO PC is more expensive than building and upgrading a normal PC tough. It is just the thrill of taking out something out of nothing. Live and learn etc.

Maybe that is why totally understand and respect the ideology of a console.