Crafting seeds?

[✪Neo]

What's the point of crafting seeds when it's not 100% you'll get your seed back when you harvest?

[Nikki6]

like ive stated before.. seems they are trying to make it team based trader survial. problem is.. they havnt worked on the stability of running a server. multiplayer is horrible when running with more then 2 or 3 people

[thestile]

I'm not sure I understand this post but:

There's only a small chance that you'll get your seed back when you harvest even with all three perks in farming.
The seed crafting is for when you have more perks and you may get seven (6 or 7, it's a chance thing) crops per harvest. And you only have to use five to craft a seed. So you can still end up in the positive.

So, with no farming perks you are correct in that, there would be point to crafting seeds. But it does have a benefit when your specced in.

If I have all three farming perks and I harvest 10 corn plants, I will get 70 corn, plus I may get 4 seeds back (just an example number). So if I turn that 70 corn into seeds I can make 14 corn seeds, plus the four that I got back. And I end up with the total of 18 seeds which I could re-plant and end up with a harvest of 126 corn plus whatever seeds I get back from harvesting.

So, the seed crafting does actually grow your stock of plants pretty quickly over time, when you are specialized in farming.

This probably wasn't worth typing up, but what the hell.... I'm bored

[✪Neo]

ohhh. I don't have skill points on the farming perks...
Now it make sense ._.

[Shurenai]

Even a single point in Living off the Land makes it so that, on average, you get more than you planted. You have a 50/50 chance at getting a seed back or not at harvest time.

Here's an old quote of mine, the specifics may be slightly outdated since it's a bit of an oldish quote, but it should still get the general point across.

========Quote starts here=============

Originally posted by Jolly:

Originally posted by Uncle Al:

Seed costs 5 crop to make.

You have a 50% chance of losing it per harvest.

So seed cost averages 2.5 crops per harvest.

Returns are:

LotL 0 - 2 crops, so average 0.5 loss
LotL 1 - 4 crops, so average 1.5 gain
LotL 2 - 4.5 crops, so average 2 gain
LotL 3 - 6.5 crops, so average 4 gain

Thank you but I'm not saying information like that is wrong, I know that information can be written with more details.

It.. It really can't be written with more details, though..

That's exactly how it functions in game. You have a 50% chance of getting a seed back. Averaged over the long haul, you will get half of the seeds you planted back.

Seeds, when crafted, cost 5 of a crop- And since you get the seed back 50% of the time, this effectively means that, Averaged over the long haul, you will spend 5 crops per pair of harvested plants in order to replant. If you have 20 plants, that's 25 crops spent and 10 seeds back from RNG; Or an effective cost to replant of 2.5crops per plot.

Living off the Land increases your crop yields per rank.
LOTL 0, you get a base of 2 crops/harvest.
LOTL 1, you get base+2, a total of 4.
LOTL 2, You get base+2, Plus a 50% chance of +1, so 4-5 crops per harvest; Averaged over the long haul, 4.5.
LOTL 3, You get base+4, Plus a 50% chance of +1, so 6-7 crops per harvest; Averaged over the long haul, 6.5.

What this means is that with 0 living off the land it is NEVER worth it to Craft a seed. Because the average scenario is that you'll get half of your seeds back, and have to spend an average of 2.5 crops per plot to replace the missing seeds. Since you only harvest 2 crops per plant, that is a net loss unless you have some INSANE luck.

With LOTL 1, though, you get 4 crops/harvest. Which means for every harvest where you get 50% of your seeds back you're making 1.5 crops per plot in profit per replanting. This also means you can weather bad luck; So long as you get at least 20% of your seeds back, you break even.

With LOTL 2, it's much the same as LOTL 1 but more forgiving on bad luck.

And with LOTL 3, you will ALWAYS profit even if you get 0% of your seeds back; As it costs 5 per craft and you get 6+ per plot per harvest.

In short:

Originally posted by Uncle Al With a slight tweak:

Returns (per harvest, per plot, on average) are:
LotL 0 - 2 crops, so average 0.5 loss
LotL 1 - 4 crops, so average 1.5 gain
LotL 2 - 4.5 crops, so average 2 gain
LotL 3 - 6.5 crops, so average 4 gain

That's it. There's no hidden mechanics, No extra math, no subtle wizardry behind the scenes.. No additional information to give. No more detail that can be written. All I've done is rephrase what Uncle Al stated but with more words.

To summarize it somewhat, With just 1 point in LotL, you would need to have pretty bad luck to go into the red at harvest time- You'd have to get back less than 20% of your seeds on a 50/50 roll. So, on average, with just 1 point you'll be gaining food faster than you lose it- You just might have a poor harvest from time to time, and would be wise to keep more of your crop on hand to make seeds just in case you DO hit the bad lottery.

With 2 points, you have that added +1 on a random chance, which helps offset particularly bad luck.

And with 3 points you will never have a bad harvest- You'll be fine even the worst case where you dont get a single seed back (which is super unlikely to begin with, unless you're growing 1 plant at a time), because you get the crops to make a new plant +1-2- So it's always net positive.

Which is, as I said, why some people think rank 3 is necessity- They can't stomach the chance of a bad roll putting them in a hairy situation on food where they have to do something out of the box to feed themselves while the next batch of crops grow.. To each their own, I guess. But I've yet to put more than 1 point into LoTL except on my most recent Fortitude centric playthrough, and I've been fine.
========Quote ends here=============

[✪Neo]

TY for info

[Bnn1]

Imagine finding seed crafting books. Couldn't be me, have seen 2 books so far in 20 hours of A21. Doesnt sound like much, but 20 hours is almost a real time day wasted away.

[Helios]

Originally posted by Shurenai:

Even a single point in Living off the Land makes it so that, on average, you get more than you planted. You have a 50/50 chance at getting a seed back or not at harvest time.

Here's an old quote of mine, the specifics may be slightly outdated since it's a bit of an oldish quote, but it should still get the general point across.

========Quote starts here=============

Originally posted by Jolly:

Thank you but I'm not saying information like that is wrong, I know that information can be written with more details.

It.. It really can't be written with more details, though..

That's exactly how it functions in game. You have a 50% chance of getting a seed back. Averaged over the long haul, you will get half of the seeds you planted back.

Seeds, when crafted, cost 5 of a crop- And since you get the seed back 50% of the time, this effectively means that, Averaged over the long haul, you will spend 5 crops per pair of harvested plants in order to replant. If you have 20 plants, that's 25 crops spent and 10 seeds back from RNG; Or an effective cost to replant of 2.5crops per plot.

Living off the Land increases your crop yields per rank.
LOTL 0, you get a base of 2 crops/harvest.
LOTL 1, you get base+2, a total of 4.
LOTL 2, You get base+2, Plus a 50% chance of +1, so 4-5 crops per harvest; Averaged over the long haul, 4.5.
LOTL 3, You get base+4, Plus a 50% chance of +1, so 6-7 crops per harvest; Averaged over the long haul, 6.5.

What this means is that with 0 living off the land it is NEVER worth it to Craft a seed. Because the average scenario is that you'll get half of your seeds back, and have to spend an average of 2.5 crops per plot to replace the missing seeds. Since you only harvest 2 crops per plant, that is a net loss unless you have some INSANE luck.

With LOTL 1, though, you get 4 crops/harvest. Which means for every harvest where you get 50% of your seeds back you're making 1.5 crops per plot in profit per replanting. This also means you can weather bad luck; So long as you get at least 20% of your seeds back, you break even.

With LOTL 2, it's much the same as LOTL 1 but more forgiving on bad luck.

And with LOTL 3, you will ALWAYS profit even if you get 0% of your seeds back; As it costs 5 per craft and you get 6+ per plot per harvest.

In short:

Originally posted by Uncle Al With a slight tweak:

Returns (per harvest, per plot, on average) are:
LotL 0 - 2 crops, so average 0.5 loss
LotL 1 - 4 crops, so average 1.5 gain
LotL 2 - 4.5 crops, so average 2 gain
LotL 3 - 6.5 crops, so average 4 gain

That's it. There's no hidden mechanics, No extra math, no subtle wizardry behind the scenes.. No additional information to give. No more detail that can be written. All I've done is rephrase what Uncle Al stated but with more words.

To summarize it somewhat, With just 1 point in LotL, you would need to have pretty bad luck to go into the red at harvest time- You'd have to get back less than 20% of your seeds on a 50/50 roll. So, on average, with just 1 point you'll be gaining food faster than you lose it- You just might have a poor harvest from time to time, and would be wise to keep more of your crop on hand to make seeds just in case you DO hit the bad lottery.

With 2 points, you have that added +1 on a random chance, which helps offset particularly bad luck.

And with 3 points you will never have a bad harvest- You'll be fine even the worst case where you dont get a single seed back (which is super unlikely to begin with, unless you're growing 1 plant at a time), because you get the crops to make a new plant +1-2- So it's always net positive.

Which is, as I said, why some people think rank 3 is necessity- They can't stomach the chance of a bad roll putting them in a hairy situation on food where they have to do something out of the box to feed themselves while the next batch of crops grow.. To each their own, I guess. But I've yet to put more than 1 point into LoTL except on my most recent Fortitude centric playthrough, and I've been fine.
========Quote ends here=============

Does living off the land also increase chance for seed books? think some of the discriptions in german are missing that info like for shotguns perk.

[Shurenai]

Originally posted by Helios:

Does living off the land also increase chance for seed books? think some of the discriptions in german are missing that info like for shotguns perk.

Yes. I think I told you this previously in another thread, but for any of the recipe books that are associated with a specific main perk, they get additional drop chance from the main perk.
So salvage operations for salvage tools
Miner 69er for general tools
boomstick for shotguns, etc.

If you open your skill menu, the right most category, looks like a hammer, is your crafting skills; Each one should list which skill boosts them if applicable.
EG, for the farming crafting skill, it says (at least in english)
"Reading Southern Farming will unlock various tiers of seeds.
Boost loot odds with Living off the Land"
I'd show a screenshot but steam's bein dumb.

[tazman1]

Originally posted by Shurenai:

Even a single point in Living off the Land makes it so that, on average, you get more than you planted. You have a 50/50 chance at getting a seed back or not at harvest time.

Here's an old quote of mine, the specifics may be slightly outdated since it's a bit of an oldish quote, but it should still get the general point across.

========Quote starts here=============

Originally posted by Jolly:

Thank you but I'm not saying information like that is wrong, I know that information can be written with more details.

It.. It really can't be written with more details, though..

That's exactly how it functions in game. You have a 50% chance of getting a seed back. Averaged over the long haul, you will get half of the seeds you planted back.

Seeds, when crafted, cost 5 of a crop- And since you get the seed back 50% of the time, this effectively means that, Averaged over the long haul, you will spend 5 crops per pair of harvested plants in order to replant. If you have 20 plants, that's 25 crops spent and 10 seeds back from RNG; Or an effective cost to replant of 2.5crops per plot.

Living off the Land increases your crop yields per rank.
LOTL 0, you get a base of 2 crops/harvest.
LOTL 1, you get base+2, a total of 4.
LOTL 2, You get base+2, Plus a 50% chance of +1, so 4-5 crops per harvest; Averaged over the long haul, 4.5.
LOTL 3, You get base+4, Plus a 50% chance of +1, so 6-7 crops per harvest; Averaged over the long haul, 6.5.

What this means is that with 0 living off the land it is NEVER worth it to Craft a seed. Because the average scenario is that you'll get half of your seeds back, and have to spend an average of 2.5 crops per plot to replace the missing seeds. Since you only harvest 2 crops per plant, that is a net loss unless you have some INSANE luck.

With LOTL 1, though, you get 4 crops/harvest. Which means for every harvest where you get 50% of your seeds back you're making 1.5 crops per plot in profit per replanting. This also means you can weather bad luck; So long as you get at least 20% of your seeds back, you break even.

With LOTL 2, it's much the same as LOTL 1 but more forgiving on bad luck.

And with LOTL 3, you will ALWAYS profit even if you get 0% of your seeds back; As it costs 5 per craft and you get 6+ per plot per harvest.

In short:

Originally posted by Uncle Al With a slight tweak:

Returns (per harvest, per plot, on average) are:
LotL 0 - 2 crops, so average 0.5 loss
LotL 1 - 4 crops, so average 1.5 gain
LotL 2 - 4.5 crops, so average 2 gain
LotL 3 - 6.5 crops, so average 4 gain

That's it. There's no hidden mechanics, No extra math, no subtle wizardry behind the scenes.. No additional information to give. No more detail that can be written. All I've done is rephrase what Uncle Al stated but with more words.

To summarize it somewhat, With just 1 point in LotL, you would need to have pretty bad luck to go into the red at harvest time- You'd have to get back less than 20% of your seeds on a 50/50 roll. So, on average, with just 1 point you'll be gaining food faster than you lose it- You just might have a poor harvest from time to time, and would be wise to keep more of your crop on hand to make seeds just in case you DO hit the bad lottery.

With 2 points, you have that added +1 on a random chance, which helps offset particularly bad luck.

And with 3 points you will never have a bad harvest- You'll be fine even the worst case where you dont get a single seed back (which is super unlikely to begin with, unless you're growing 1 plant at a time), because you get the crops to make a new plant +1-2- So it's always net positive.

Which is, as I said, why some people think rank 3 is necessity- They can't stomach the chance of a bad roll putting them in a hairy situation on food where they have to do something out of the box to feed themselves while the next batch of crops grow.. To each their own, I guess. But I've yet to put more than 1 point into LoTL except on my most recent Fortitude centric playthrough, and I've been fine.
========Quote ends here=============

Are we absolutely sure its 50/50 because even perked fully into LOTL I have never seen a 50/50 on seeds.

more like a 1 /50 but then again I also never get dysentary from drinking murky water.

[Shurenai]

Originally posted by tazman1:

Are we absolutely sure its 50/50 because even perked fully into LOTL I have never seen a 50/50 on seeds.

more like a 1 /50 but then again I also never get dysentary from drinking murky water.

In fairness it may have changed in A21... But in A20, which is from when that quoted post section is from (and I acknowledged beforehand that some info might be outta date), yes, it was definitely a 50% chance to get the seed back.

A quick skim through the xml seems to indicate that yes, it's still 50% chance though. Relevant part underlined:

<block name="plantedMushroom3HarvestPlayer">
	<property name="Extends" value="plantedMushroom3Harvest"/>
	<property name="CreativeMode" value="None"/>
	<property name="CustomIcon" value="plantedMushroom3Harvest"/>
	<property name="DescriptionKey" value="plantedMushroom3HarvestDesc"/>
	<drop event="Harvest" name="foodCropMushrooms" count="2" tag="cropHarvest"/>
	<drop event="Harvest" name="foodCropMushrooms" prob="0.5" count="1" tag="bonusCropHarvest"/>
	<drop event="Destroy" name="plantedMushroom1" count="1" prob="0.5"/>
	<!-- <property name="DowngradeBlock" value="plantedMushroom1"/> -->
	<property name="SortOrder1" value="B951"/>
	<property name="SortOrder2" value="0005"/>
</block>

[...👑 JOST AMMAN 👑...]

Originally posted by ✪Neo:

What's the point of crafting seeds when it's not 100% you'll get your seed back when you harvest?

Go ask a farmer... but they all say it's a tough job!