Glass Jars

[GGcake]

I need some back story. What's wrong with glass jars being removed?

[fleatoad]

Originally posted by Vankman:

I love how people cry about the water jars being not realistic but what about bringing 500 tons of concrete in your pockets?? I don't see anyone saying THAT ain't realistic at all. lol
And people that complain water is hard to get just don't know how to play the game.

I love how people come on here and cry that nobody complains about the "500 tons of concrete in your pocket"
Despite my post in here that does mention that.

[fleatoad]

Originally posted by UrbanNoodles:

Originally posted by fleatoad:

So play how you want as long as it aligns with how the FP want you to play...

Absolutely correct. You can't open Minecraft, rush B, and plant the bomb now can you?
Removing jars didn't do a single thing to improve or diminish the game. Jar dependancy simply promoted isolationist play styles sooner than the FunPimps wanted. You forgot to add spontaneously generating gas cans from oil shale to your list.

In minecraft you can make infinite water loop. So not really sure what you are trying to say here.

[UrbanNoodles]

Originally posted by fleatoad:

Originally posted by UrbanNoodles:

Absolutely correct. You can't open Minecraft, rush B, and plant the bomb now can you?
Removing jars didn't do a single thing to improve or diminish the game. Jar dependancy simply promoted isolationist play styles sooner than the FunPimps wanted. You forgot to add spontaneously generating gas cans from oil shale to your list.

In minecraft you can make infinite water loop. So not really sure what you are trying to say here.

You can have infinite water with a single bucket in 7d2d, but that wasn't what I was using that analogy for. What I am clearly saying is you can only do what is allowed by the developers of the game. If you can do it, They designed it that way or they let it happen by not patching it. All games do it. Jars being removed doesn't change anything other than making it take a little longer to get to the isolation stage.

[Daiemio]

Originally posted by GGcake:

I need some back story. What's wrong with glass jars being removed?

Make shovel, dig surface layer of dirt, get sand, turn sand into glass jars in furnace, infinite glass jars, no worry about water for the rest of the game, basically the Developers could not find a way of "fixing" glass jars without nerfing sand as a whole, so they just removed glass jars and now you drink unclean water by having nothing in your selected hand, waiting 1 second then pressing E to drink water, but the water also harms your health so it needs to be a last resort, they still want you to go scavenging like normal.

Edit: at least until you find the water-filter mod for a headpiece, if so just drink away.

[fleatoad]

Originally posted by UrbanNoodles:

Originally posted by fleatoad:

In minecraft you can make infinite water loop. So not really sure what you are trying to say here.

You can have infinite water with a single bucket in 7d2d, but that wasn't what I was using that analogy for. What I am clearly saying is you can only do what is allowed by the developers of the game. If you can do it, They designed it that way or they let it happen by not patching it. All games do it. Jars being removed doesn't change anything other than making it take a little longer to get to the isolation stage.

Are you saying that the game is being mis-sold as an open world game?

[fleatoad]

Originally posted by Daiemio:

Originally posted by GGcake:

I need some back story. What's wrong with glass jars being removed?

Make shovel, dig surface layer of dirt, get sand, turn sand into glass jars in furnace, infinite glass jars, no worry about water for the rest of the game, basically the Developers could not find a way of "fixing" glass jars without nerfing sand as a whole, so they just removed glass jars and now you drink unclean water by having nothing in your selected hand, waiting 1 second then pressing E to drink water, but the water also harms your health so it needs to be a last resort, they still want you to go scavenging like normal.

Edit: at least until you find the water-filter mod for a headpiece, if so just drink away.

Make shovel dig 1/2 ton of sand. Place sand into containers and use some form of wagon to drag it back home.. nah only kidding just stick 1/2 a ton of sand into your pockets and run back home. Absolutely nothing to fix here.

Place sand and wood into your basic furnace, set the programme to jars and watch as basic furnace now becomes an automated production line. Melting down the sand, blowing glass into moulds and cooling it all down while you get on with other things. Well I can't see a problem here either.

Reusable container. Well that's a bill silly and should be removed.

Survival mode all fixed now well at least until you grind out some trader quests and get water filter that has unlimited use and never breaks.

[Jay Ren]

.....Still think they should keep the jars gone, but give the ability to grab water from a source.

I'm very happy the containers are abstracted, having to craft glass jars when theres a pile of random plastic bottles on the floor is silly.

[Pizzarugi]

Originally posted by fleatoad:

" So you'd just craft 500 jars, fill em at the source, boil it all and basically never need to gather water again"

So rather than fix the issue of being about to make excessive amounts of jars they took the easy option and removed them.

People seem quick to forget. The whole reason the devs removed jars in the game is because they want the early/new game experience to be more difficult. They said it themselves in either the patch notes or blogs leading up to A21 that they want players to struggle with sustaining water for a while until they can unlock access to the rain water collector.

The devs could nerf access to jars all they want, but at the end of the day, being able to craft or loot jars trivializes the ability to survive in the early game.

[Desert Rat]

Originally posted by Pizzarugi:

The devs could nerf access to jars all they want, but at the end of the day, being able to craft or loot jars trivializes the ability to survive in the early game.

How does a realistic survival mechanic "trivialize the ability to survive in the early game?"

In most, if not all, survival situations, one of the first priorities is going to be clean water. This would involve a person securing containers, filling them with water from a source, then boiling the water to purify it for drinking. A mechanic that USED TO exist in the game. Defend it however you like, the current mechanic is not realistic and is nothing more than a grind. Judging by the number of posts on this topic, it's not a universally popular grind.

I've seen many people comment that they like the change because now they don't have stacks of empty jars cluttering up their backpack. That was another realistic feature, as you had to balance the need to retain empty containers to hold water against the desire to grab better loot. Mods that give larger backpacks ameliorated that problem to an extent, but it could still be an issue in larger POI's.

I get your point about why the Devs made the change, to increase the early game grind. I get that, but the change was an awkward and unnecessary one. Now we have to accept the fact that in an "apocalyptic open world" we can't find empty containers lying around everywhere, and the only way to get water is from the traders (wonder where they get THEIRS?) or by looting toilets and then returning in 3 or 5 days to loot them again after the toilet fairy has refilled them. Oh, and let's not forget the magical dew collectors which have the ability to create jars from thin air.

The one thing that can be said with certainty is that this change has been a polarizing one. Most people have an opinion, and those opinions are valid. It does no good to criticize others for the way they think and feel. For my part, I miss the jars (I modded them back in) because I enjoyed the mechanic of having to manage my water supply. Many people like the current system more, for various reasons. I wish the Devs had given us an option, but that's largely what mods are for, I guess.

[Blue Hasia]

its been years people. how is this even still going on when 1.0 will make dew collectors to craft on day 1

i wake up each morning knowing im not going to be salty over jars in 7d2d and life is better because of that.

[fleatoad]

Originally posted by Blue Hasia:

its been years people. how is this even still going on when 1.0 will make dew collectors to craft on day 1

i wake up each morning knowing im not going to be salty over jars in 7d2d and life is better because of that.

Yet you chose to be salty over other people expressing their opinion.

[Trooper Bri]

Originally posted by fleatoad:

Originally posted by Blue Hasia:

its been years people. how is this even still going on when 1.0 will make dew collectors to craft on day 1

i wake up each morning knowing im not going to be salty over jars in 7d2d and life is better because of that.

Yet you chose to be salty over other people expressing their opinion.

Dwelling over something that's been gone for such a long time, and is never coming back, is not opinion.
It's a borderline mental disorder to obsess over a retired gaming mechanic. I honestly question if folks here are on the Spectrum and don't know it.

What happens when you get tossed a much bigger conundrum IRL other than glass jars?

[NightPants(XL)]

Originally posted by Trooper Bri:

Originally posted by fleatoad:

Yet you chose to be salty over other people expressing their opinion.

Dwelling over something that's been gone for such a long time, and is never coming back, is not opinion.
It's a borderline mental disorder to obsess over a retired gaming mechanic. I honestly question if folks here are on the Spectrum and don't know it.

What happens when you get tossed a much bigger conundrum IRL other than glass jars?

if thats all you can infer than your lack of ability to process context is really whats at fault. try some bigger picture thought and realize the complaint runs deeper than 'jar gone bad'. again, if you cant see that, given multiple posts, than you should read slower and process information better. there isnt a right or wrong given the nature but youre reducing the argument to nothing and its weak minded

[Blue Hasia]

Originally posted by fleatoad:

Originally posted by Blue Hasia:

its been years people. how is this even still going on when 1.0 will make dew collectors to craft on day 1

i wake up each morning knowing im not going to be salty over jars in 7d2d and life is better because of that.

Yet you chose to be salty over other people expressing their opinion.

LOL

I needed a good laugh this morning

[UrbanNoodles]

Originally posted by fleatoad:

Are you saying that the game is being mis-sold as an open world game?

Absolutely not. Nothing I said even comes close to suggesting that. The game is very clearly open world. That doesn't mean you can do things that the devs don't want you to do. How is this not clear?

As I have said many times, which you seem to be missing: Removing jars does nothing to the gameplay other than make isolationist playstyles take slightly longer to achieve in the early game. You can still stay locked in your base with no need to leave. You just need dew collectors first, which you can get 5 by day 3 with ease if you rush quests and normal loot abundance settings. In A21, this was achieved with 120 minute days, so on a normal 60 minute day it would take just around 6-7 days of quests - which puts you right at horde night. In 1.0, you will get a dew collector quest in the tutorial. Being upset about the removal of jars is just ridiculous, anyone crying about it are compensating for a skill issue because they don't even realize how minimal the change actually is.

Originally posted by fleatoad:

Yet you chose to be salty over other people expressing their opinion.

He is not salty. The only salty people are you: the ones who want pointless jars back to the point of allowing yourselves to be highly toxic to the people trying to explain why it doesn't matter and providing advice on how to alleviate your issues.

Originally posted by NutSacky:

Originally posted by Trooper Bri:

Dwelling over something that's been gone for such a long time, and is never coming back, is not opinion.
It's a borderline mental disorder to obsess over a retired gaming mechanic. I honestly question if folks here are on the Spectrum and don't know it.

What happens when you get tossed a much bigger conundrum IRL other than glass jars?

if thats all you can infer than your lack of ability to process context is really whats at fault. try some bigger picture thought and realize the complaint runs deeper than 'jar gone bad'. again, if you cant see that, given multiple posts, than you should read slower and process information better. there isnt a right or wrong given the nature but youre reducing the argument to nothing and its weak minded

If you can't explain to him what the deeper meaning to "jar gone bad" is rather than trying to insult him for being correct, then you shouldn't be trying to police him. People are complaining about jars being gone because it made water super easy to get. You could achieve this on day 1. This promoted an isolation playstyle, from the get go, where people could just start building their base 24/7 till horde night. That's not what the devs want so it's gone, it's as simple as that. A common argument for bringing jars back is realism. Anyone trying to use realism as a reason to bring jars back are being dishonest with themselves considering things like carry weight associated to a stack of cobblestone or building blocks not being taken into account, and the spontaneous generation of gas cans from a single oil shale, or the fact that the gas can disappears when used. Realism is not an argument. So all that is left is the utility of the jar itself, which was promoting something the devs didn't want.