anyone else feel like "horde bases" are cheese?

[Comp Killer]

i mean whats the point in playing a survival game if your belongings, home and means of survival arent at risk?
dont properly prepare for the horde? no worries even if you die ur home is fine and you can try again next horde.
just seems abit cheesey to me.

[God Bless The Dead]

Początkowo opublikowane przez azure.symmetry:

Later in game you get DEMOLISHER ZOMBIES who blast your base, removing hefty chunks of your structure. 4-5 of them and your base in incredibly damaged.

If you can't aim for their head at close range, sure..

[Nerevar]

they are not really cheese. otherwise sitting on any isolated roof would be cheese.

[Blue Hasia]

Początkowo opublikowane przez DeCoz XP:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Blue Hasia:

there after your flesh not the storage boxes full of rocks.

to add to this, Late game is is recomanded to make a hoard base separate from your main base.

this is true, but my main is always my horde base, i like to keep it exciting. also it does depend on how you build ur base and traps.

yep, as said it is recomanded. my game play style is i usally make a new stronger base every 30-40 days

and if i do last for a play though to 100 days a hoard only base is really recomanded as the destruction can get overwhelming fast

[Blue Hasia]

Początkowo opublikowane przez God Bless The Dead:

Horde night went to crap when they added the smart path finding zombies, you dont need any spikes or traps like you used to, you just need a handful of strong blocks at the end of a path to block the zombies while you blast them point blank...

ya hated this, spike traps are really pointless sadly.

[Serious]

What's the point in a sandbox game, to play the way you want ;-)

[Shakoris]

Początkowo opublikowane przez A "Deer":

i mean whats the point in playing a survival game if your belongings, home and means of survival arent at risk?
dont properly prepare for the horde? no worries even if you die ur home is fine and you can try again next horde.
just seems abit cheesey to me.

Don't give the developers any ideas. This is ridiculous. It's a tower defense game.

[Ferrix]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Molten Sh4dow:

Początkowo opublikowane przez DeCoz XP:

just say u don't know how to build a base properly and not a hardcore 7D2D player lol, the thing is every blood moon the zombies gets more vicious. as also ive noticed that the dev placed an AI that if u start to progress more and more in game like weapons or even finding ways to becoming better survivor, they up the difficulty some ways. so the game isn't cheesy at all, its how u play it.

Yeah its called gamestage. It increases based on your level and how many days the world has existed and how long you have survived without dying and multiplied by the biome you are in and POI you are in. So if you are level 50 and survived for 50 days, your base gamestage is about 100. If you are in, lets say, a desert, it multiplies your gamestage by about 1.5 so your gamestage is 150. This means you will get better loot and see alot more feral zombies and maybe even radiated ones.

More than just gamestage, the game IS adaptive slightly. There's a reason for the heat-map system that spawns screamers, and if you suddenly start dealing a lot more damage to zombies over a given period (like you found a toilet pistol early on or smth) then that can also ramp the game's difficulty up a bit adaptively in addition to gamestage. It's not just level.

Hell, if you're doing really well early-game your first horde will end up having multiple Dire Wolves in it, even if you aren't at a level where you can actually fight them. The AI is weird like that.

[Random]

i mean the entire game for me revolves around horde bases. calling it cheese is a low IQ take. Them not adding content to horde bases in about 12 years is even worse. i want to login and build but why? nothing has changed in ages. same bloody defences i used literally 8-12 years ago. only new mobs is the dire wolf and bear. yipeeeeeee. steal ideas from fortnite i no longer care just gives us more defences and more mob styles and bosses / mini bosses but these guys just want to keep re working the intro and middle game meanwhile game ends around day 50 but we stretch it to 80 ish if you know what your doing. and before you say day 50-80 is awhile this also hasn't changed since like alpha 10.

[Zairev]

I always play single life, so no respawn cheese.

The thing is, i like to make my base lookin good, which isnt compatible with efficient on maximum difficulty, thus separated bases.

Btw, last 2 savegames, i played without BM for first 50 days, since BM makes game actually much easier, as it give lot of free exp during really short time. By disabling BM early, it took me lot longer to reach godhood levels. And lets be real, sitting on roof of concrete building with destroyed stairs for few first weeks isnt much of a challenge.

[ShanachieWolf]

Main problem for me is that as the players developed cheese strats, instead of fixing the foundational mechanics that allowed those strats to work, they just made the zombies ignore more and more things to the point where they are now heatseeking missiles.

So then the bases had to get even cheesier in an arms race that TFP don't really want to admit they lost, and so the zombies aren't really fun to play against, and you just abuse their very visibly meta-gamed AI which ruins the immersion. So the bases get cheesier and the strats more ridiculous. No one is organically building "strong" bases without hitting up youtube or deep diving in creative.

This lead to the separate horde base because you can't reliably defend your property or items (without relying on cheese and likely youtube strats/builds), so for people who don't want to "cheat" (i.e look at guides more than absolutely necessary), the separate horde base became the norm because you can make mistakes without being set back massively. The heat system also kind of mandates/rewards this type of behavior by incentivizing spreading out base components whereas before you'd have everything at one place, so it's sort of reinforced at multiple layers of gameplay.

[Trooper Bri]

One thing to remember is the building aspect of the game. Some folks like to build mega-bases, or fancy home bases that aren't suitable for hordes. Or they don't want a lot of work getting trashed. I'm one of them.

Some Alphas I've incorporated a horde fighter into a mega-base, but most I've had a dedicated horde fighter. I have a few compact variants that work from Day 7, and I can upgrade until I'm done with a save or project.
I've even had as many as 3 home bases (crafter base, and a 25x25 pyramid and 50x50 pyramid party base) along with a horde fighter base in a game save. I spent about 200 hours on that world, and even made a tour vid. So yeah, zombo management.

This is a recent save where Vanity Tower was the lone T5 POI. Decided to take it over and restore it inside and out. For this save I was cranking out 1000's of concrete for the restoration, so I didn't build a horde fighter. I just cherry picked and converted small concrete POIs to be inefficient boom pits. Molotovs, contact grenados, and flying lead. I give the Collision Center a big nod. Got 3 hordes out of it.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3400896595

[Abuzigahl]

Cheese? I thought it is intended from the dev's. Have many bases and not one, split heat prepare on diffrent locations. I personally dislike it - so i mod ... esspacially the "i spwan behind you" or "spawn on trigger" nonesense (uhh lokk zombie BEHIND YOU .... ughhh). Tbh. even if you dislike it, these Bases (Horde) are intended or why do you think Zeds have a degree to know exactly where the weak points of buildiung are or how to avoid traps and the like or why volture spawn if you drive of on Bloodmoon.

[Gwizzz]

They need to make use of all the free AI packages. They can create music, life like images, diagnose illnesses, why not zombie behavior?

[Mattrex]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ShanachieWolf:

Main problem for me is that as the players developed cheese strats, instead of fixing the foundational mechanics that allowed those strats to work, they just made the zombies ignore more and more things to the point where they are now heatseeking missiles.

I think this is the real answer. TFP is like the DM who wants to kill you, and when you come up with a strategy to avoid being killed, they change the rules so that your strategy doesn't work any more and then they can get back to killing you. Every time you find something that works, they just decide that it doesn't work any more, because That's Not How You're Supposed To Do It, Don't You Understand That I'm In Charge Here?

Problem is, ten thousand nerds armed with spreadsheets, creative mode, free time, and an optimization complex will always outwit a handful of game developers. Always. TFP cannot win short of giving the zombies laser eyes that instantly kill players on sight, and even then you'd probably find some psycho out there who could develop a meta strategy for countering it.

[Grumpy Old Gamer]

Początkowo opublikowane przez A "Deer":

i mean whats the point in playing a survival game if your belongings, home and means of survival arent at risk?
dont properly prepare for the horde? no worries even if you die ur home is fine and you can try again next horde.
just seems abit cheesey to me.

Try playing on Insane night 700+. Even with a solid steel base you need tons of ammo.