[FYI] Concerning the Professional Credibility of MadMole, 7DtD's Lead Designer/Developer

[Fuzzy.Bunny]

NB (1) Italicised numbers indicate end-notes; please follow down to them. (2) I will not respond to comments as the environment has demonstrated itself to be toxic. No one should be compelled to stay in a toxic environment. (3) Some of this information is ancient insofar as the internet is concerned, so sources in linked pages (not the pages themselves) may return 404 errors.

The state of the game from, at least, Alpha 11 onward is in contradiction with the Risks and Challenges section of the 7 Days to Die Kickstarter page:1

You might ask how did we do all this in 7 months and honestly I’d have to say we knew what game we wanted to make, had a unified vision and just started making it. This is truly the best example of vision, meets passion, meets talent, meets experience that we’ve all had the privilege to be part of. We’re in this for the long haul and won’t quit until it ships.

It is clear that the game no longer possesses a unified vision and any number of issues are present within a title that should no longer be in this state of development after 2 years. Various purportedly core features/systems are missing and various current features/systems are either too buggy to be live and/or do not work well next to each other and obviously so. That core features/systems are missing this far into development, too buggy features are brought live (e.g. mini-bike) and core features/systems remain obviously imbalanced (e.g. debuffs, generally, and related to combat, armour, et al.) make it necessary to question whether or not the developers possess the talent, viz. ability to develop the title relative to the title’s complexity, and preparedness, viz. the conceptual dedication and wherewithal to see it through both in general and as it develops, to finish the game at all.

The purpose of this advertisement is to make potential 7 Days to Die customers aware of the questionable professional credibility of Joel Huenink (a/k/a MadMole), the lead developer and co-owner of The Fun Pimps Entertainment LLC, by gesturing briefly2 to issues within prior relevant work experience up to and including the more current state (A12.5) of 7 Days to Die. It is in no way my intent to defame MadMole personally or professionally; this is no airing of dirty laundry, digging up skeletons or anything else, rather it is the bringing to light of a contractor’s past relevant business history so potential customers may make a more informed decision about using the contractor’s services. This is all the more important in the current Early Access/Kickstarter environment.3


In an archived discussion4 on the official 7 Days to Die forums, Red Eagle gathered together various posts by MadMole in 2014. Aside from a particular tone present throughout the various posts that warrants concern (this will be addressed later on), what is most important is what MadMole said in response to the thread: “I do all the balancing of the game, as well as most of the world art, I animated all the female animations and wore another 50 hats in early dev. So I am one of the best qualified guys to do it [PR].” Taking MadMole at his word, that he handles all of the game balancing, it must be believed that no relevant game-related decision is made without his particular say-so or other form of tacit approval.

Before co-owning The Fun Pimps Entertainment LLC and functioning as lead game designer, MadMole was the owner/operator of 4D Rulers Software.5 This company produced 3 games (with 2 proprietary engines) in 16 years of existence. MadMole’s only other commercial experience in the industry was as a consultant for NCSoft on Dungeon Runners, roughly 1 year between 2007-08.6 This demonstrates a limited level of experience, considering the relevant projects, that is focused almost exclusively within 4D Rulers Software, a company that (1) released its titles to less than positive reviews across the board7 and (2) was owned and operated by MadMole (3) where he “[specialised in p]ublishing deals, contracts, marketing, 3d modeling & texturing, rigging, technical art, negotiations, sub contracting, people management, content integration and debugging, effects, level design, animation. I'm a true jack of all trades.”

In the middle of the 4D Rulers Software website there is a news piece dated 07 September 2008, saying that 4D Rulers sought investors and speculate a 400% return.8 The language used is poor and hyperbolic, having every appearance of the illegitimacy normally associated with cash-grab schemes. It is important to recognise that this comes after not only at least one previous attempt to seek investors9 but finding handling said investments too much of a legal hassle and then seeking to return investor funds.10 These things put together demonstrate a years-old pattern of questionable business practises insofar as, at least, money and management are concerned.

Related to this are job postings on two Polycount forum threads, one archived (2006)11 and one live (2007),12 with language similar to that of the September 2008 post on the 4D Rulers page contained in both threads. These postings received an overwhelmingly negative response, with MadMole alternatively lashing out13 and seeming to not understand the issue people took with the postings. Particularly relevant are the points made about training his brother Richard in the former thread (“My brother who knew nothing, I trained him and he's lead designer at 3D Realms now, and he's shipped about 6 AAA titles now.”) and his start as a modder with DOOM in the latter thread (“I started out in this industry in mid 90's working for free on doom mods.”).

That last point is particularly relevant because, indeed, MadMole started with mod projects like All Hell is Breaking Loose, a Doom II total conversion,14 and various The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion mods.15 The direction taken from A11 to the present and the obviousness of various balance issues in 7 Days to Die is in line with a modder or otherwise amateur developer who is developing their craft. Notable in this is that the Oblivion mods were made while MadMole still owned and operated 4D Rulers Software and each of his Oblivion mods has a page on the 4D Rulers site.16 MadMole is certainly a committed modder and, following an interview with his brother Richard at Quater to Three17, 7 Days to Die seems to have the appearance of a mod because that appears to largely be the intention: “[w]e had both been playing a lot of Minecraft and thought somebody should make a game like Minecraft only with better technology, graphics, crafting, and a real zombie threat.”

Deepening the connexion to being a modder, the IGN review 18for Gore: Ultimate Soldier notes “t sure looks like it [[i]Quake III: Arena], or more accurately, like a slightly underdeveloped mod for it. None of this game's extremely large maps exude the level of polish, balance, and meticulousness that went into the id deathmatcher.” Designing and developing a mod, though bearing any number of similarities, is not the same as developing a stand-alone title. Thus, coming to 7 Days to Die, Madmole’s remarks in the official forums on the state of early-game in Alpha 12, generally, and the bow nerf,19 specifically, are telling:

[..]I focused on a long term game in A12 instead of playing 30+ new games, so I started a new game and see the current issues with early game challenge [...]20 I started a new game and died about 8 times in the first 24 hours led me to believe there was an issue if a master of fps and survival dies 8 times. Now granted I COULD have survived and not died had I chosen, but I played a bit like the average player by choice and died horribly so I decided the nerf was too much.21

Notable in this is that a ‘master of fps’ should be able to recognise what an ‘average player’ is likely to do and especially one that is a video game designer/developer. Further, a long-term game or any number of short-term games will demonstrate the state of early-game, quite clearly given the issues gestured to above, and especially to a video game designer/developer. MadMole’s remarks ultimately gesture to a lack of familiarity with and focus on the game’s design across several levels: some things are too basic to be missed at any given point in development.


Gestured to in brief above, MadMole is a video game designer/developer with: (1) all but 1 year of his commercial experience outside of The Fun Pimps Entertainment LLC coming from within a company where (a) he lists himself as the bona fide owner/operator and that (b) only shipped 3 games in 16 years (c) to a largely negative commercial response; (2) troublesome relationship to managing funding on a professional level; (3) consistent, demonstrated issues recognising and/or handling criticism within a professional sphere; (4) greater productivity (and interest?) functioning as a modder of games rather than a designer/maker of games.

It is up to the reader to come to the conclusion of whether or not these are the marks of a talented, prepared and professional video game developer with whom they wish to do business.
__________
1. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/7daystodie/7-days-to-die-zombie-survival-game/description
2. By ‘gesturing briefly’ I mean to say that this is meant only to be indicative of relevant business practises and work experience.
3. Players, the people that pay to play a given game, need to have tools at their disposal to adequately judge for themselves if a game is worth their money. In this era of Early Access, no demos, and hyperbolic reviews there are fewer and fewer ways for potential customers to make an informed choice. The history of any given developer is, then, particularly important to making an informed choice and this is what I have aimed to provide.
4. http://7daystodie.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-10359.html
5. http://www.4drulers.com/
6. https://www.linkedin.com/pub/joel-huenink/2/369/656
7. http://www.metacritic.com/company/4d-rulers and http://www.giantbomb.com/4d-rulers-software-inc/3010-5372/
8. http://4drulers.com/invest/
9. http://www.shacknews.com/article/45105/invest-in-4d-rulers
10. http://www.qj.net/mmorpg/news/4d-rulers-to-return-investments.html
11. http://www.polycount.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-45931.html
12. http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50213
13. A more recent example can be seen when responding to a poster’s good-natured request to access the bug tracking system to better serve as a tester he said, “[n]ext you'll want access to our financials and want to sit in on design meetings. No.” (https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?30684-Alpha-12-3-Hotfix-Is-Out!&p=289010&viewfull=1#post289010)
14. http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/All_Hell_is_Breaking_Loose
15. http://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/searchresults/?
16. http://www.4drulers.com/unholydarkness/, http://www.4drulers.com/oblivion/realestate.php,
http://www.4drulers.com/oblivion/eyja.php,
and http://www.4drulers.com/oblivion/darkbrotherhood.php
17. http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/2014/01/13/creators-7-days-die-explain-make-friendlier-zombie-apocalypse/
18. http://www.ign.com/articles/2002/06/12/gore?page=1
19. The A12 changelog (http://7daystodie.com/mini-bikes-physics-bears-a12/) does not make clear the extent of the change. Thankfully, Deccypher has backup .xml files. The A11.6 arrow (http://7d2d.rocks/xml/11-6/items.xml) did 25 damage, flat, before headshot bonuses, whereas the A12 (http://7d2d.rocks/xml/12-0/items.xml) arrow did 5-15 damage before taking damage from the new quality mechanics and headshot bonuses.
20. https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?29134-Mini-Bikes-amp-Physics-amp-Bears-A12!&p=274725&viewfull=1#post274725
21. https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?29134-Mini-Bikes-amp-Physics-amp-Bears-A12!&p=274844&viewfull=1#post274844

[Zhorge]

Let's cut to the chase. The OP is just whinging and is the one who lacking credibility. Many of you are falling for it because you have no idea what was promised. Here are the goals and stretch goals:

Originally posted by 7 Days To Die core game features from The Fun Pimps:
7 Days To Die Planned Core Game Features
The World - Explore a beautiful, hand crafted, voxel world with a multitude of biomes including: wastelands, forests, snowy mountains, pine forests, plains, deserts, burn forests and radiation zones.

Points of Interest - Discover hundreds of great Points of Interests ranging from caves, campsites to cities and skyscrapers. Each and every building can be explored inside and out.

Goal met. Like it or not, goal is met.

Dynamic Story Generation - The story unfolds through our “Dynamic Story Generation System” which guides the player to other survivors, better loot and undiscovered Points of Interests through story note quests.

Not implimented.

Basic Survival - Scavenge the world for food and water maintaining and boosting health, food, stamina and hydration levels. Grow and harvest a variety of crops and hunt, track or domesticate a multitude of wildlife to live off the land.

Day and Night Game Play - Spend the day looting, mining, crafting and building up your forts defenses as light slows down and weakens the zombies. Hold up somewhere safe at night as the lunar cycle speeds up and strengthens the zombies.

Looting, Mining and Crafting - Loot and mine a multitude of items and ingredients to create hundreds of items including melee weapons, guns, traps, generators, motorized tools, motion detectors, landmines, auto-turrets, salves, potions and more using our 5x5 grid Crafting System.

Relentless and Special Enemies - Enemies will claw, jump, climb and break their way through the world in order to get to you. They can see, smell and hear the player and can work in a group. And watch out for the unique special infected enemies like the Acid Puking Hulk whose acidic vomit can melt blocks.

I believe most everything here is met. The Acid Puking Hulk is the Fat Cop Zombie, btw.

Block Physics and Stability - Our Physics System simulates real-time structural integrity, durability and mass. Blocks don’t float in the air nor can you build an unsound unsupported structure. Build it right or watch it come crumbling down. Weak blocks can even fall from the weight of the player or zombies.

Item Quality and Food & Water Purity - Every item in the game has a quality level and degrades with use and combine items to create better items. All Food and water items have a purity level the higher the purity level. The higher the health and stamina benefits. Improve crafting to make better items. Improve cooking to make purer food and water.

Stealth and Distraction System - Crouch and sneak your way past enemies or throw objects to distract them. Find or craft sight, sound or smell deterrents and attractor recipes and items to exploit the sight, hearing or smell of the zombies to throw them off track.

All this has been done through at least the first iteration. Some of this is being improved. Some of this is complete.

XP and Skill Trees - Earn XP and upgrade your skills to become the ultimate Bruiser, Gun Nut, Gadget Man, Chemist or Stealth Agent. Upgrade your melee skill learning to craft better melee weapons and swing them harder & faster and even learn special finishing moves.

Not only have they done the first iteration of this, but the absolute ****ing whining that's gone on about the skill trees and losing the crafting table has been EPIC.

Solo, Cooperative and Multiplayer - Play solo, coop or multiplayer in our unique Zombie Nomad Mode be a human, a bandit or a zombie for a no rules experience. Watch the leader boards and fight to be the Big Clan of the Wasteland or the Duke of Navezgane.

I don't know about the 'play as a zombie thing.' I'll chock that down to 'not implimented.' Same with most of the multiplayer aspects like leader boards.

Of course, having been around gaming I would expect that to be the second to last thing done.

Creative User Tools - Build your own worlds and play them with friends using the Creative Mode Tools featuring hundreds of block shapes, prefabs and random generation tools. Create dedicated servers with your own unique game rules and settings.

This will be the last thing done. It will, like with most games, probably not be done until after the game is done.

Originally posted by 7 Days To Die stretch goals from The Fun Pimps:
Stretch Goals
(all these features are planned, but can be implemented earlier with a larger team)
$200,000:
(Base Goal) Part-time artists & priogrammers join full-time to accelerate feature development

They have done this.

$250,000:
Existing world expanded, more locations added
More items and weapons
More special infected enemies, with more abilities
Skill tree and Exp system enhanced further

They have met this, though they are adding more stuff to the game.

$300,000:
Additional player characters
seasonal weather effects implemented
Temperure based survival effects
Oculus rift support - (virtual reality headset) - more info at www.oculusvr.com

They're working on this right now. We've had the first steps toward that with rain, snow and dust storms which are currenlty limied just visual effects.

$350,000:
Enhanced, professional soundtrack!
More wild animals! Mountain lions, coyotes, cats, and dogs living together, mass hysteria!
Animals can turn into zombies too! (zombie bears!)

They gave us bears. We have zombie dogs. People whine incessently about them. Ironic. I'll put this down as PARTIAL as I have no idea about the sound-track, though I do like the music we have.

Some items appearing below this point may appear in a post-release update.
Goal funds tied to these items would be saved to begin development on them beginning immediately after release version.

$400,000:
Character customization tools
Interchangable clothing system
Expanded story\mission programming.
NPC characters and merchants
NPC controlled safe houses added

$450,000:
Professional voice actors hired to record lines.
Multi-player mode expanded with new features
Random world generation expanded
World building tools expanded - Design your own zombie apocalypse for your friends!

$500,000:
Major world terrain enhancement - Cubic landscapes become smooth terrain - World remains fully destructable and buildable
Drivable and customizable vehicles added
New additional NPC characters to discover
Expanded story missions

Please note some of these are "Post Release." Still, we've seen progress on character customizastion tools. We've seen more armor (MacDyvers scrap armor). We've seen the bow added.

What we're waiting for are the NPCs, the voice acting and cars (but minibikes were delivered).

And, of course, we're waiting for the story.


All in all, most everything has been delivered. We see the blog where new things are being added and tested as well as old things being upgraded, such as world generation, zombies, zombie AI, more points of interest, etc., etc., etc.

And yet, somehow I read all these posts telling us that TFP is failing to deliver. And that they 'lack credibility.' And they're 'rip off' artists and 'con men.' You people are just plain full of ****.

There is a lack of credibility, but it isn't coming from TFP: And there is a lot of gullibility in this community to think that hachette job was anything but dishonest.

[YamaKami]

@ Zhorge

+1, though just off the top of my head without looking at the kickstarter goals again. You missed electricity. Makes me wonder if anything esle was left off...

[Ozzy OzBorn]

People learn from past mistakes despite common beliefs of most people. I've no doubt that Madmole wants all the features implemented a lot worse than you do and won't stop until they're done. You're just a frustrated player but this is his baby. I love the game and have probably not played a game as much except for maybe a few of the huge wow type games. I have had so much fun and variety with this game and I still find new things to do to this day. To say I got my moneys worth would be a huge understatement and there's still a lot to come. I hope they never finish it but keep the big updates coming regularly. If this is so bad go try that Forest game or the one with Beasts or any number of the feeble survival games that Steam lets people sell on here then come back and tell us how bad this is. I love the game and hope the Pimps keep up the awesome work.

[Cruz]

This dev that you're questioning got you to play over 100 hours of his game in its Alpha stage....I would say he did his job.

[LokitheWeaver]

Автор сообщения: Teddy, kidnapped

It's ad hominem, not "hominim". If he wants to ban me, let him ban me. I have the sceenies of everything I say to build my case. Let him ban me for disagreeing politely, I have the means to make more accounts if I wish to and build even a stronger case that way....Why would he ban me, for speaking the truth or asking for a clarification on the nature of this hit piece?
Why are you replying to me when my question was directed at SAGA? Are you his alt account?
Just asking politely.

Excellent, you know how to spell it correctly. Let me help you out with the definition, though:
"An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, means responding to arguments by attacking a person's character, rather than addressing the content of their arguments." (Wiki : )

So let us see how this plays out: OP did attack the character of the lead developer of 7D2D - that WAS his arguement and he backed up what he said with citations to other sources.

YOU responded, not by attacking the OP's argument, supporting your position with logic and citations to sources that supported your view, but by attacking the OP / his character.

See the difference?

edit: the Urban Dictionary has a rather blunt definition / example - "Ad hominem (-) An attack upon an opponent in order to discredit their arguement or opinion. Ad hominems are used by immature and/or unintelligent people because they are unable to counter their opponent using logic and intelligence."

[Trumpster]

When I bought this game nearly 18 months ago now it had already been out for some time and on the steam page it had a roadmap with what it would offer and time frame to be completed. Everything was meant to be completed within 4 months when I bought the game from boss zombies to vehicles etc etc.

This roadmap is now gone which says alot about the credibility of the development team..Imagine buying a house and being told it will be completed in 4 months....2 years down the road and it's still not done and the builders are working on something else instead of what they promised....

[Tripping Pug]

Автор сообщения: Bob

When I bought this game nearly 18 months ago now it had already been out for some time and on the steam page it had a roadmap with what it would offer and time frame to be completed. Everything was meant to be completed within 4 months when I bought the game from boss zombies to vehicles etc etc.

This roadmap is now gone which says alot about the credibility of the development team..Imagine buying a house and being told it will be completed in 4 months....2 years down the road and it's still not done and the builders are working on something else instead of what they promised....

Who could actually pull off a game of the originally stated complexity in less than a year, though? I don't think you can give an example of a game with the planned amount of content and features, with similar core content and team size/experience, as this, that got shipped after less than a year of dev time. Though of course now that I say that, I'll be proven wrong...

Anyways, it was unrealistic for TFP to set their time table so tight, but it's also unrealistic to believe that 10 guys (or whatever it is) can make a game in that amount of time when a AAA company couldn't. So I don't know if I can assign blame anywhere here.

And while other devs were like, 'Yeah, sure, f*ck you guys who paid us; let's go off and play Mario Cart, co-workers!' TFP (to me at least) seems to have said, 'Yeah, sorry about that, guys. We were wrong about the time line; but we're still making the game, and it's still gonna be awesome!' And then they went on to make a good game anyways.

Though that's all just my take on it.

[LokitheWeaver]

Автор сообщения: Zhorge

Let's cut to the chase. The OP is just whinging and is the one who lacking credibility. Many of you are falling for it because you have no idea what was promised. Here are the goals and stretch goals:

*snip*

All in all, most everything has been delivered. We see the blog where new things are being added and tested as well as old things being upgraded, such as world generation, zombies, zombie AI, more points of interest, etc., etc., etc.

And yet, somehow I read all these posts telling us that TFP is failing to deliver. And that they 'lack credibility.' And they're 'rip off' artists and 'con men.' You people are just plain full of ****.

There is a lack of credibility, but it isn't coming from TFP: And there is a lot of gullibility in this community to think that hachette job was anything but dishonest.

Thank you for actually taking the time to try and logically address some of the concerns that have been voiced. However, I do think that you have overstated your position in your enthusiasm. Let us look at some of your conclusions:

"The World" - goal met? Actually work in progress, several biomes which were in the earlier versions have been removed for modification.

"Hundreds of great POI's" - goal met? Argueably, yes, since in an unlimited random world there will be hundreds of POI's. However, a good case can be made for work in progress, as the actual elements to create the POI's are very limited.

"Story" - not implemented. Yep.

"Basic Survival" - most everything implemented. Yes it has, except for tracking / domestication. Yet the Mole has mentioned on the blog, that "they don't want players to be able to this - become self sufficient through farming, etc."

"Day and Night game play" - most everything implemented. Yes, except for the small aspect of "hold up somewhere safe at night", hence several changes to the game to make certain NO place is safe.

"Looting, mining, crafting" - most everything implemented. Some items missing, but not major. 5 x 5 grid crafting system? Nope, going the way of the dodo bird.

"Relentless Enemies" - no disagreement. Relentless, to the point of obsession, enemies who are not just limited to a fat cop with projectile acid vomit, but run of the mill zombies who can claw through reinforced concrete. Does not get much more relentless than that.

"Block Physics and Stability" - this is where you start needing to hedge your statements - no longer "implemented" but implemented through "first reiteration". Which means what? Work in progress.

"Food and Water Purity Levels" - Complete or first reiteration? Water? 2 quality levels - deadly or good, does not matter if it comes out of a stagnant toilet or running water or pond. Improve cooking? Nope. Not even a first reiteration.

"Stealth and Distraction" - complete or first reiteration? Last I read, stealth system was buggy / broken. And when was the last time you found or crafted any *edit* 'deterrents or attractors' to exploit the zombies senses of smell, sight and hearing? Potentially the stone / arrow / bolt might qualify under hearing attractor - but it is of very limited use to confuse the zombie gps.

"XP and Skill Trees" - first reiteration and epic whining. Yes, we get XP. It gives us a leveled loot / crafting system. Skill Trees? Do you seriously consider RNG gated skill books (stated to be a "placeholder", not a first reiteration) to have fulfilled this?

"Solo, coop, multi-player" - out of all the examples you have given this is the one I would say is closest to being implemented. Balance issues are being addressed and will probably need tweaking for a long time.

"Creative user tools" - agree this is a late stage item, but they have released some .xml files, which has already allowed skilled modders to do a lot of work. Kudos for this.

Not going to go through every stretch goal addition listed. My thesis has always been these core features should be solid before anything else. This is what the zombie pimps stated were key aspects of the game even if they only hit the lowest funding goal.

(Except to note that you cannot expand XP / Skill Trees, when there are no skill trees to expand. Nor can you expand a story that does not exist.)

So out of all those features, only four to five (out of thirteen) are fully implemented, at best. Roughly 30% - 40% of the core features.

In development / work in progress / first reiteration are all ways of saying "not done yet." After 7 months of hard work, prior to Kickstarter and some 2 years, post-Kickstarter.

edit: to use actual language in Kickstarter vs. "distrator" - which is not even a word (noted by Dr. W. : )

[Thundercracker]

Автор сообщения: vv FuMM

The devs do listen to feedback. just go to their official forum and become a member and post on there. I'm not sure it's stated exactly how you need to communicate with the devs duering early access. Posting ever thing in one place and hiring a part time guy to sort through the posts and let the devs know what might need attention works fairly well if it's a super super busy forum. Obviously their official one isn't super super busy so the devs directly respond.

they are part of valve's early access program on steam. i understand steam is either the only pace to buy or legitimatly download the game. the devs have an obligation to have a steam forum presense. anything less is an abuse of the early access program.

Автор сообщения: Tux

Автор сообщения: Supplysidejesus

I think the purpose of the OP is to bring to light that perhaps there is NOT all that much of an experience gap, in terms of game development, between TFP and somebody like you or I who have some programming and modding experience.

as a full time programmer myself with 10 years of experience I would say that is 100% false.

Inexperienced developers can unknowningly create coding traps that months later makes the entire project unmoveable until all the code becomes untangled.

double is true for database design that makes the game performance drop to crawl

traps like, say, not commenting your code?

Автор сообщения: Supplysidejesus

memory leaks

am i wrong in suddenly realizing that memory leaks are very common in unity games?

Автор сообщения: brian9824

Thats bad logic though, there is a big difference between listening to player feedback and having players dictate who they should hire and the order in which they have decided to implement features.

it's not "dictating", it's pointing out a rookie mistake. there are very good reasons that software development follows the standards it does. this process has been used and refined for something close to six decades. i've learned my lessons through my mistakes letting me code myself into a corner, and had to do full project rewrites because of it.

if i was making rookie mistakes that could potentially eat up my profits, i'd be glad for someone to point them out.

Автор сообщения: LokitheWeaver

"Stealth and Distraction" - complete or first reiteration? Last I read, stealth system was buggy / broken. And when was the last time you found or crafted a "distrator" to confuse the zombie gps?

you dont have any small stones or a crossbow/bow with appropriate ammunition?

you can throw stones or shoot arrows/bolts, where the projectile lands causes a sound that attracts zombies who detect it. it's a pretty nifty thing that's saved my bacon in 0,0 a few times, when zombies were too close to my position.

[...👑 JOST AMMAN 👑...]

Please have a look here.

[THARN]

well- I read the entire wall of text from Op-
I still have to ask why? i always take into consideration of what my money spent is actually worth. so far 7dtd has covered that expense,,,
I probably am on the minority side of players that really think this post is frivolous.
i will leave it at that.

[Outcast]

Автор сообщения: THARN

well- I read the entire wall of text from Op-
I still have to ask why? i always take into consideration of what my money spent is actually worth. so far 7dtd has covered that expense,,,
I probably am on the minority side of players that really think this post is frivolous.
i will leave it at that.

Nope, I totally believe this is an asinine post. I can say that when The Bitterness was in high school he, didn't get straight A's and that we should just assume from that that he's just a mediocre person who is never going to be good at anything. It's the same argument that he uses in his post and in truth, it has as little bearing on this title. I could care less what the lead dev did 20 years ago considering what he has done in the last year on this title. As far as I'm concerned, I have long since gotten my moneys worth from this purchase and that I still play it with my wife indicates that I'm getting an even better deal as more time passes. If the original poster didn't have some kind of "i hate madmole and you should too" aggenda, I would probably be willing to engage in this topic, but once it was clear that was all the OP was pushing, I didn't bother reading anymore. Every 90 or so posts, I skim the last couple to see what's being said and so far, it's pretty pointless still.

[LokitheWeaver]

Автор сообщения: Dr. W

*snip*

Автор сообщения: LokitheWeaver

"Stealth and Distraction" - complete or first reiteration? Last I read, stealth system was buggy / broken. And when was the last time you found or crafted a "distrator" to confuse the zombie gps?

you dont have any small stones or a crossbow/bow with appropriate ammunition?

you can throw stones or shoot arrows/bolts, where the projectile lands causes a sound that attracts zombies who detect it. it's a pretty nifty thing that's saved my bacon in 0,0 a few times, when zombies were too close to my position.

My bad. Trying to type from memory. I did not even spell "distractor" properly ; )

The original text was 'deterrents or attractors' to exploit the zombies senses of smell, sight and hearing. Potentially the stone / arrow / bolt might qualify under hearing attractor - but it is of very limited use (you can't do anything to cause zombies to avoid an area, or to attract them to a specific area, for instance to lead them into a pit trap, etc., aka all the ways Will Smith was able to outsmart his opponents in "I am Legend")

Will fix that, though. Thanks for pointing it out.

[Vexing Cat]

Автор сообщения: LokitheWeaver

Автор сообщения: Dr. W

*snip*

you dont have any small stones or a crossbow/bow with appropriate ammunition?

you can throw stones or shoot arrows/bolts, where the projectile lands causes a sound that attracts zombies who detect it. it's a pretty nifty thing that's saved my bacon in 0,0 a few times, when zombies were too close to my position.

My bad. Trying to type from memory. I did not even spell "distractor" properly ; )

The original text was 'deterrents or attractors' to exploit the zombies senses of smell, sight and hearing. Potentially the stone / arrow / bolt might qualify under hearing attractor - but it is of very limited use (you can't do anything to cause zombies to avoid an area, or to attract them to a specific area, for instance to lead them into a pit trap, etc., aka all the ways Will Smith was able to outsmart his opponents in "I am Legend")

Will fix that, though. Thanks for pointing it out.

At the moment one of the best ways to direct them toward a pit with spikes is to use an exploit such as building a frame with a door in front of it. :-) Is it an exploit? an undocumented feature? or what was intended?

With less art you just need to stand on the other side of the pit and watch them fall in. ;-)

[BenignTooma]

To any potential buyers of this game I would question the motivation for this post and consider the following:
!. Overwhelming positive player feedback
2. The developers (including Madmole) of this game have listened and responed to player feedback throughout developement.
As a result there have been major improvments and additions which have altered and unfortunately slowed the production timeline.

I purchased three copies of this game for myself and two other family members at its current price ($25.00) and with over a combined 700hrs we still consider it one of the best game purchases we have ever made -even in its current state of developement. I couldn't care less about Madmoles credibility.