Pain Tolerance works differently than described?

[Emulare11]

Why does izprebuilt on YouTube say that pain tolerance is worthless and doesn't work the way it states? I haven't been able to find anything about this on the internet. Does anyone know how it affects damage calculation according to the files?

Thanks.

[ShadedMJ]

It would be better if you provided a link to that episode, or just what izprebuilt says.
Nobody here is going to watch the entire series trying to figure out what/when he says.

Whether izprebuilt is right or wrong, why should we care? It is more likely he is misunderstanding something. "Why does this person say that?" and you ask us????

[aY227]

It's pointless in end-game because it calculates reduction from what's left after armor reduction.
So more armor you have - less effective this perk is.

You take hit for 30dmg but have armor rating at 75% - you take 7.5dmg
Now pain tolerance is calculated - with 25% reduction it will save you ~2HP
Just take healing factor.

[CellNav]

Originally posted by aY227:

It's pointless in end-game because it calculates reduction from what's left after armor reduction.
So more armor you have - less effective this perk is.

You take hit for 30dmg but have armor rating at 75% - you take 7.5dmg
Now pain tolerance is calculated - with 25% reduction it will save you ~2HP
Just take healing factor.

Pain Tolerance is a "General Damage Resistance" to any damage against your health. Armor doesn't reduce fall damage, nor does it reduce bleed damage. Pain Tolerance covers everything, armor just covers physical and elemental damage (heat, electrical).

Healing Factor borders on useless throughout the game. A med kit, bandage and even aloe cream can beat (or match) a point of health every 6 seconds. The player is swimming in healing items end game. Pop a pain killer and it's like nothing happened.

Also, it wouldn't matter where the 25% reduction is applied (before or after other multiplying or division occurs), it's the same result. When addition or subtraction takes place, it can matter in a formula of before/after.

[aY227]

Yes, Im aware that, but I don't know what this youtuber was thinkin - maybe that it adds up.

Fall damage doesn't exist med to end game. Any other reduction in that it gives is worthless.
Healing Factor adds very useful healing speed for critical injuries and and passive 1HP for 6/s is nice.

"just use meds" works also for Pain Tolerance. I value HF way more, because of nice general QoL.

[WhamyKaBlamy]

Doesn't Pain Tolerance completely prevent being stunned and Healing Factor makes critical injuries heal faster?

Also, unless I'm running on old information, doesn't being at full health actually reduce the chance of you being hit with a critical injury?

I normally run both because I'm normally the club/shotgun wielding maniac that charges in first to protect peeps. I'm going to take hits, but having my health constantly top up on it's own to full is pretty useful, and not being stunned helps it stay that way.

[pApA^LeGBa]

Originally posted by aY227:

It's pointless in end-game because it calculates reduction from what's left after armor reduction.
So more armor you have - less effective this perk is.

You take hit for 30dmg but have armor rating at 75% - you take 7.5dmg
Now pain tolerance is calculated - with 25% reduction it will save you ~2HP
Just take healing factor.

Never getting stunned is imho never useless. Maybe on default difficulty, but once you up the difficulty it´s usefull.

[RasaNova]

Originally posted by CellNav:

Originally posted by aY227:

It's pointless in end-game because it calculates reduction from what's left after armor reduction.
So more armor you have - less effective this perk is.

You take hit for 30dmg but have armor rating at 75% - you take 7.5dmg
Now pain tolerance is calculated - with 25% reduction it will save you ~2HP
Just take healing factor.

Pain Tolerance is a "General Damage Resistance" to any damage against your health. Armor doesn't reduce fall damage, nor does it reduce bleed damage. Pain Tolerance covers everything, armor just covers physical and elemental damage (heat, electrical).

Healing Factor borders on useless throughout the game. A med kit, bandage and even aloe cream can beat (or match) a point of health every 6 seconds. The player is swimming in healing items end game. Pop a pain killer and it's like nothing happened.

Also, it wouldn't matter where the 25% reduction is applied (before or after other multiplying or division occurs), it's the same result. When addition or subtraction takes place, it can matter in a formula of before/after.

I agree about HF... The faster critical injury healing is nice, but for topping off health I'd rather just eat. A bacon & eggs will heal 18 health in a fraction of the time that HF will, and it has the added side effect of filling our belly instead of emptying it faster.

[JimmyIowa]

Pain tolerance can quite good for an aggressive melee style of play. 25% less health lost is far from minor. Look at it this way - late game, it's basically like having 267 max health instead 200 (regardless of whatever your armor value is). Because with pain tolerance you need to take 267 total health damage in a short time to be killed. This is a fairly major difference for an aggressive melee player, especially on horde night on high difficulty.

Also, healing factor doesn't have to be an either or decision vs medical bandages or eating. That's a false dichotomy. You can use both. Both is better than either one alone. And the 100% faster crit healing is significant when combined with a health bar (which is 200%). A sprain lasts only a couple of minutes with the combo, which is short enough that you can stay in combat and not have the sprain progress to a break.

[Uncle Al]

Pain tolerance used to work differently to how it was described, but was fixed in the last patch (20.6).

Rather than blocking damage, it used to instantly heal you immediately after damage was taken. Annoyingly, hits that would have only just killed you without pain tolerance still killed you, which shouldn't happen if it was reducing damage.

All the other damage reduction abilities, mostly from magazine bonuses, have also been fixed.

As to whether it's useful, it's just as good in mechanical terms in heavy armour as none, as JimmyIowa points out. The issue is that if you have an armour rating of 90, HP damage isn't usually killing you anyway, critical injuries and bleeds are, so the extra 25% on top may not be worth it.

The stun resistance is definitely nice. Personally I think it should buff your crit resistance or slow the rate at which hits reduce your crit resistance, but currently it doesn't.

[aY227]

Originally posted by JimmyIowa:

Pain tolerance can quite good for an aggressive melee style of play. 25% less health lost is far from minor.

Whole point is that it does not give 25% reduction - it is not added to armor but applied after/before it.

Radiated biker on insane hits for 100HP - you should have around 80AR in endgame - so 20 damage left and now is reduced to 15.
Hurray! 5% reduction provided. Better your armor is - less it gives.
I prefer passive healing with reduced crit times + some healing items, stun is not that dangerous to waste 5 points. Crits are doing only real damage.

Oh, and if anyone is curious, I think OP was talking about this vid:
https://youtu.be/sv8SPwJkwYk

[JimmyIowa]

Originally posted by aY227:

Whole point is that it does not give 25% reduction

Yes, it does.

Originally posted by aY227:

so 20 damage left and now is reduced to 15.
Hurray! 5% reduction provided.

20 damage reduced to 15 is a 25% reduction in how much damage you take. :)

Originally posted by aY227:

Better your armor is - less it gives.

It's always 25% regardless of your armor.

[RasaNova]

Originally posted by JimmyIowa:

Also, healing factor doesn't have to be an either or decision vs medical bandages or eating. That's a false dichotomy. You can use both. Both is better than either one alone. And the 100% faster crit healing is significant when combined with a health bar (which is 200%). A sprain lasts only a couple of minutes with the combo, which is short enough that you can stay in combat and not have the sprain progress to a break.

I never said HF was a decision vs eating, and never mentioned bandages (which I do use.) I was talking about why I don't take HF, because for me I'd rather heal with food which does the same thing quicker. I'll even eat when I'm not hungry, just to top off my health. (Since food is no issue.) But yeah your right about the faster crit healing which I also mentioned in my own response, but that's not enough for me to spend points in the skill until maybe later in the game when I have points to spare.

But there's no right or wrong to it, it's all about what each of us finds useful based on our own preferences and play styles.

[aY227]

No, having it or not having later on makes only 5% difference - that's all what counts. From total damage received by player it reduces less and less % as you play.
I know you understand this, but decided to play dump - have fun, I will unsub for sanity.

[JimmyIowa]

Originally posted by RasaNova:

I never said HF was a decision vs eating, and never mentioned bandages (which I do use.)

? Relax, I wasn't responding to you. :) I wasn't really responding to anyone in particular, just giving my point of view, but if you read the thread, someone else was talking specifically about medical bandages instead of healing factor. I'm not even sure why you thought a response about medical bandages was directed at you if you didn't mention them. :)

I'm just giving my point of view on the topic.

[Pille]

The closer you get to 100 percent, the more important each additional percent is. That's why 25% of what's left after armor based-damage reduction is a lot. And of course stun resistance is very important too.