Need help with knife fighting

[Buddha Bob]

Hey folks,

I've got a lot of hours into the game but have always used either clubs or fists so I've decided to try an agility build for a change

Unfortunately, I'm having trouble getting the hang of meleeing with a knife. I feel like I have to get closer than I'm used to and I don't seem to be able to stagger or temporarily drop zombies to get some space or crowd control. I power attack but it doesn't seem to be too effective. Could easily be I'm such a low level though.

Lastly, there doesn't seem to be much in the way of perks or books to increase the stagger ability but I could be easily missing something since it's new territory for me.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[Shurenai]

Knives aren't about staggering enemies. If you want to stagger them, use clubs or sledgehammers. Knives aren't for standing and fighting, it's for playing keep away and for one shot assassination of the unaware.

Knives are about inflicting DoT's with your attacks and then staying out of arms reach while they bleed to death. With a high knife skill, a single power attack will slam 4 or so bleed stacks on a zombie and more often than not, that is enough to kill a zombie over the course of it's duration.

[Lance]

Going knives requires a different play style than what you're attempting. You don't want to fight hordes of zombies straight up if you can avoid them. You want to sneak around taking them out one at a time, or if you have to fight them while they're aware of you, you need to move in, slash them to get them bleeding and pull back out. Once you get points into parkour it becomes even easier, because then you can bleed them and jump out of reach while they die.

Your attacks use little stamina, so unlike using other weapons you can use sprint as a regular part of combat. Sprint in, slash slash and sprint past.. zombie should bleed out.

You're a ninja, not a sledgehammer swinging barbarian. It's a harder play style than "me have sledgehammer!! ME SMASH!!" but it's still viable.

[FT]

Keep in mind that kills by bleeds are bugged and don't currently give XP....so knife-fighting is kinda borked right now in that regard unless you physically deal the final hit that kills for each zed.

[Brassqund]

Originally posted by FT:

Keep in mind that kills by bleeds are bugged and don't currently give XP....so knife-fighting is kinda borked right now in that regard unless you physically deal the final hit that kills for each zed.

Using an health bar mod can be pretty useful for that.
This is not the kind of stuff I use as I don't like them...
but that can be useful to help you know when a zombie is about to die
from bleeding so you can finish him to get xp.

[De Espirit]

The knife tree stat-wise has a high attack rate and is guaranteed to cause bleeding debuffs, but the downside is low attack range, low damage, almost no chance to stun/knockdown, and inadequate perk support outside of stealth. This is the baseline that you have to plan your fights around.

Early knife fighting is going to be a challenge, the damage from a bone shiv or low quality hunting knife is pathetic. You have to rely on the bleeding debuffs to deal the bulk of your damage, so just stab it in the face and keep your distance until it dies. If maneuvering isn't an option, you can power stab it and switch to a secondary weapon, smacking it while it's bleeding will kill it faster.

As you level up in Agility you get an increased chance to get an instant decap with knives, which goes very well with the knife's high attack rate. Not something you want to rely on to get you out of a messy situation, but you can take out radiated zombies this way, just snare it behind a block or something and poke it until it explodes.

The other advantage in knives is that they get the best sneak attack bonus, a whopping 400% extra damage compared to bow's 200% and the base 50% for everything else, and that's before any perks or skills. If you want to go the stealth route this is definitely something to take advantage of.

One last thing to consider is the upgrade to machetes. Machetes lose the rapid attack speed of the other knives but make up for it with a nice boost in damage. While it's not as powerful as a comparable club or sledge, it's enough to hold your own in a fight, and benefits much more from the sneak bonus. If you don't care much for stealth and want to rely more on the instant decap then you should probably stick to a hunting knife.

(Personally the knife's very low damage makes the sneak bonus negligible, since it takes an exceptionally good knife to match the sneak damage of even a mediocre bow or crossbow. By the time you get access to a good machete that can do the job, you also have access to high-tier bows that can match the damage of firearms, give a higher knockdown chance on hit, and still get the 200% bonus on top of that. This is especially noticeable on higher difficulties).

Overall it's a much different type of combat weapon, and you have to rely on a lot of hit-and-run methods.

[Buddha Bob]

Thanks so much for the input, guys. It's much appreciated.

[amyasleigh]

Don't use knives, they are bad for some reason. the only good thing in the agility skill tree is the pistol/smg perk.

[ZorTheCruel]

Im surprised nobody mentioned the best perk about knives vs clubs that helps equalize the field a little. I would have to pull up the game to be sure, but the knife perk that controls the quality of knife crafted, and all of the bleeds it can deal, also about 3 points into it, if i remember right, it adds a debuff to anything you bleed, where it slows their movement while bleeding. Pairing this with the guaranteed bleed on every power attack, and knife power attacks being so cheap on stamina you can use nothing but power attacks and almost never deplete your stamina, this means that as soon as you stab something, not only is its life draining out from bleed, but it also *slows its movement speed*, making it easy to dance in and out of range stabbing like the Apocalypse Freddy Krueger we know you are going for....

I did an agility build as an experiment in my current run, just like you are, and im only at lvl 4 perk in the relevant agility skills and im shredding zombies just as fast as clubs did. (since i can do 2 power attacks in the time it takes to do one club power attack, use less stamina, might decapitate on the first hit, and kill the zombie just the same) The bug with not getting exp if they actually die to bleed damage is annoying, but with the speed of the zombie slowed, it also means you can usually get away from them much easier if you get too many of them on you at once. And it feels good to know as you run away, that they will bleed out regardless, lol. And if you get the melee speed perks, power attacks with knives are even faster, which is bonkers cause of how fast they are already.

With points into sneak damage and bows and knives and stealth, I one shot basically anything with stealth headshots. Like even feral fat zombies, lvl 4 or 5 compound bow with one iron arrow from stealth and down it goes. Ive yet to not instakill anything that i managed to get close enough to stab from stealth too, as long as its a stab in the head. The change from a strength based build (I spent nothing on raising strength this time) has been a huge bunch of fun and different playstyle to use. And agility being the pistol tree, The Desert Vulture pistol is insanely good with the pistol perks. it does hunting rifle level of damage with each shot, and has a speedy reload. Run and gun is agility too, making it where you can have no movement penalty when reloading. I'm 100% team agility currently, no regrets.

[=JpS=Red5]

Originally posted by amyasleigh:

Don't use knives, they are bad for some reason. the only good thing in the agility skill tree is the pistol/smg perk.

Sorry, but I have to strongly disagree. The knife (and machete) has been a key melee weapon for me in the early and mid game since A18...and in A19 it feels to me like it has gotten a bit stronger. That said, I mix the knife with other weapons such as the club and thrown spear (levels 1 to 10) and take skills like Sexual Tyranosaurus, Deep Cuts, and Flurry of Blows. The main drawback is keeping an eye on your stamina as too many attacks too quick will drain the bar. A quick switch to a short range crossbow or bow will give a bit back so you can take another stab.

I do agree that my style when using a knife is a bit more of a 'bob and weave' style as going straight toe-to-toe without backing out of melee is not a good idea.

To each their own.

[Buddha Bob]

Maybe it's a recent change but I've noticed getting exp when a zombie bleeds out which is nice.

[Cheesey Broccoli]

In version A19; bleed kills from knives sometimes give XP and other times not; there is no consistency with the XP gain even in the same game session.

[gon]

Originally posted by Cheesey Broccoli:

In version A19; bleed kills from knives sometimes give XP and other times not; there is no consistency with the XP gain even in the same game session.

I have only experienced it right after i log in, and relogging usually fix the problem