Food tip for ya.

[Discipline Before Dishonor]

Farming is utterly useless now, all you need is 1 point in Animal Tracker in the perception tree, and you'll never run out of meat again. You can literally just make it a point to kill chickens and rabbits whenever you're travelling between traders, and you'll rapidly find that you have enough meat to feed a small village, let alone yourself in single player.

[Leconte]

Publicado originalmente por Trunks_Budo:

They still need to address how OP the stone sledgehammer is. It makes the steel sledge obsolete, change my mind

its not super cool looking, so therefore not good and you need to use steel?

[Damnion]

Publicado originalmente por aY227:

Publicado originalmente por Lunacy:

unless you max out the skill for it.

Yes, you need skill in farming to be good at farming.
Crazy, I know.

Not skill, maxxed skill. In typical FP fashion they overdid it on the adjustments. Would have been better to scale back the amount you get from a yield or increased the time to grow rather than leave it up to rng to decide whether you get a seed.

They have a bad habit of double dipping several different nerfs to the same mechanic instead of implementing 1 at a time and checking the balance.

[Vinyltavia]

dunno why people are claiming farming is useless. maxxed out your net gain is +1 if you have to reinvest in your farms being replanted with a chance to get your seed back.
If anything; it prevents the overabundance of crops that inevitably happens once your mega farm gets setup. at times, the persistent crops could make things annoying at what you had to knock out to put down new things so your farm plots can have a clean slate to decide what you're going to grow for the next few days.
This isn't a hard thing to adjust to.

[aY227]

Publicado originalmente por Damnion:

Publicado originalmente por aY227:

Yes, you need skill in farming to be good at farming.
Crazy, I know.

Not skill, maxxed skill.

No, on larger scale just 1 point in farming gives you a profit.
Also they added seeds drop from trash/farming shelfs
And maxed skill gives more than before.

Farming was OP AF - zero time/perk investment and you have infinite food.
Good change.

[Midas]

Publicado originalmente por aY227:

Publicado originalmente por Midas:

It's not a waste at all. Anyone who claims they can find every rabbit and chicken nearby without it is a liar, and sure you can get enough meat without it, but it still lets you do it way faster, and even at night in the pitch black. It provides plenty of utility for a single skill point.

Please, don't call me a liar. This is not my problem that you can't see dozens of small animals around.
You need that skill point early on - animal tracker is a waste. You can easily have a lot of meat without it.
Also, there is like 10+ new farm POI's
And with a super cheap pipe weapons you can even hunt something bigger.

The 'liar' part was on the condition of 'can find every rabbit and chicken nearby without it', and if you are claiming that, you are one. They make no sound at all, and can be completely obscured by random rocks, bushes and other solid objects. More likely you just don't realize how many of them you're missing.

Unless you've got some kind of trick for seeing chickens and rabbits through solid blocks, it's simply false to pretend that animal tracking doesn't help you find more meat more quickly.

[Jonnson]

Publicado originalmente por RasaNova:

Publicado originalmente por Jonnson:

This is the part you guys fail to consider; time. I have many strategies they all depend on mood. Heres 1. On day 1 I run around and gather everything I need to make a 20 plot farm, I level up lotl to gatherer (4 points total, I got them by completing the tutorial). Every morning, out the door of my fort, I harvest. I dont go anywhere, I dont track, loot, or move from vending machine to vending machine, ever. I simply stock up on food on the way out the door. Now, total up all the time you spend over the course of your game doing all those things. The truth is, you like hunting, or you like gathering from vendors. Nothings wrong with farming.

I don't think anyone is forgetting anything. If you're talking time, you must also consider the time and luck required to gather the 10 seeds each of potatoes, corn, and mushrooms (for veg stew, the only means of reasonably feeding yourself without other ingredients) OR you need to grow and harvest your own seeds of the same type in order to grow your supply through farming alone, which takes several harvests (which takes considerable time.)

The comparison is spending an entire game day gathering the resources for a 20-plot farm with which you can begin to prepare for sustainable food by mid game, or stopping for a moment periodically to put a bullet in a chicken or fight off the wolf in your back yard for an abundance of food from the start.

Not saying 1 is more viable than the other, and as you said they are different strategies for different moods/[playstyles. But I still believe that maintaining a sustainable farm used to be a fun activity to add variety to our diet, and now it's an optional luxury for people who enjoy it. [/quote]

There are farms everywhere now. It takes about half a game day to get the farm stuff, the other half is stopping to grab eggs, chickens, and boar along the way, for day 1 (not to mention gathering stuff for the forge to make a cooking pot, digging up sand to make jars, and gathering up chrysanthemum, for red tea...and what I need to start a base in wood).

You dont need to wait to mid game for it to be useful, its useful tomorrow, on day 2. I'm harvesting, on average, 5 steak and potatoes a day worth. I tested this 20 times now (20 first day runs). I'm on day 4 now, I have roughly 15 steak and potato. Food is no concern to me at all for the rest of the game. Dont forget that you get some canned food in pois as you go through. So, the harvested food is the base, I can top that off with what I loot. I spent 1 day gathering food, and no more. I will kill boars for meat, they are everywhere as well, and yield more than chickens, but chickens are fine too. I dont even need to do that though, as I can make vegetable stew instead, I just like the animation of steak/potato in my inventory. I will be glad to show you, I'd love to in'fact, I'm getting bored always solo.

20 plots = 10 corn, 10 potato, and 10 mushroom (mushroom is planted in the ground)
Some days you get less, others you get more, it averages to about 10 veggies a day, and replant. Thats about 5 meals per day. Yes, some days are only 2, but then some days are 9. It only takes 2 veggie to make meal, its meat that is 5.

To add to that, one could, and I did a few times in test, finish sweeping the farms on day 2. Those veggies I did not convert into seeds or plant, those I made into meals straight away. There is enough to make several stacks of meat stew, vegetable stew, and steak and potato. This means, if you spend 1 & 1/2 days focused on food you can start with something like 2-3 full stacks of 10 meals, and have a farm yielding another 5 per day. Alternatively, you could spend day all of day 2 gathering more clay, and rotting flesh as well as the veggies, and make a farm that is 60 plots big, yielding a full stack, on average, per day.

This is using gatherer, not farmer.

I can prove this either in game with you, or I can provide video. Video is boring to watch, but itll show you whats up.

[Jonnson]

Publicado originalmente por tazman1:

Publicado originalmente por Jonnson:

This is the part you guys fail to consider; time. I have many strategies they all depend on mood. Heres 1. On day 1 I run around and gather everything I need to make a 20 plot farm, I level up lotl to gatherer (4 points total, I got them by completing the tutorial). Every morning, out the door of my fort, I harvest. I dont go anywhere, I dont track, loot, or move from vending machine to vending machine, ever. I simply stock up on food on the way out the door. Now, total up all the time you spend over the course of your game doing all those things. The truth is, you like hunting, or you like gathering from vendors. Nothings wrong with farming.

Indeed that and resource costs. looting pois for food costs resources if you don't get enough food to profit and only enough to recover the hunger spent clearing the place that is not worth it.

By the same token having crops take more then 1 day to grow vs cost of the food gives you enough food to go out exploring for a day. Just because people did stockpile or play modded games where these massive food stores were a thing I never saw any such stockpiles in all my time playing since A9.

Forcing players to have to buy all 3 ranks in LOL just to maintain a small garden is an asinine change there was alreadya balancing factor in place that could easily be tweaked without breaking farming by forcing reliance on RNG or full investment. The FACT that its the only element of the game that is hidden behind that wall is rdiculous.

I can still mine with just my stone tool it takes forever but it is possible. I can use my axe or a bone shiv to harvest gore blocks and animals without perking into it.

however I can't ensure that if I don't find food seeds I can keep a garden going is just nonsensical.

No, you are wrong. You do not need to spec farmer. You only need forager.

There are farms everywhere now. It takes about half a game day to get the farm stuff, the other half is stopping to grab eggs, chickens, and boar along the way, for day 1 (not to mention gathering stuff for the forge to make a cooking pot, digging up sand to make jars, and gathering up chrysanthemum, for red tea...and what I need to start a base in wood).

You dont need to wait to mid game for it to be useful, its useful tomorrow, on day 2. I'm harvesting, on average, 5 steak and potatoes a day worth. I tested this 20 times now (20 first day runs). I'm on day 4 now, I have roughly 15 steak and potato. Food is no concern to me at all for the rest of the game. Dont forget that you get some canned food in pois as you go through. So, the harvested food is the base, I can top that off with what I loot. I spent 1 day gathering food, and no more. I will kill boars for meat, they are everywhere as well, and yield more than chickens, but chickens are fine too. I dont even need to do that though, as I can make vegetable stew instead, I just like the animation of steak/potato in my inventory. I will be glad to show you, I'd love to in'fact, I'm getting bored always solo.

20 plots = 10 corn, 10 potato, and 10 mushroom (mushroom is planted in the ground)
Some days you get less, others you get more, it averages to about 10 veggies a day, and replant. Thats about 5 meals per day. Yes, some days are only 2, but then some days are 9. It only takes 2 veggie to make meal, its meat that is 5.

To add to that, one could, and I did a few times in test, finish sweeping the farms on day 2. Those veggies I did not convert into seeds or plant, those I made into meals straight away. There is enough to make several stacks of meat stew, vegetable stew, and steak and potato. This means, if you spend 1 & 1/2 days focused on food you can start with something like 2-3 full stacks of 10 meals, and have a farm yielding another 5 per day. Alternatively, you could spend day all of day 2 gathering more clay, and rotting flesh as well as the veggies, and make a farm that is 60 plots big, yielding a full stack, on average, per day.

This is using gatherer, not farmer.

I can prove this either in game with you, or I can provide video. Video is boring to watch, but itll show you whats up.

[Jonnson]

Publicado originalmente por RasaNova:

Publicado originalmente por tazman1:

the major issue is alot of the new pois are not in Navasgane.

If they are they are out of reasonable bike range having taken an entire day to look for them.

Navezgane however has the holy grail of infinite meat known as Bob's Boars. At least, that was the case in the last few revs, can anyone confirm if it's still true? I haven't found it yet in the 4 RWG maps I've tried in A20.

Found it several times.

[admos]

Publicado originalmente por Midas:

Publicado originalmente por aY227:

Please don't advise animal tracker.
Waste of skill point.

It's not a waste at all. Anyone who claims they can find every rabbit and chicken nearby without it is a liar, and sure you can get enough meat without it, but it still lets you do it way faster, and even at night in the pitch black. It provides plenty of utility for a single skill point.

You don't need to find EVERY single rabbit and chicken nearby. You just need to walk into a city or something similar where there aren't a lot of bushes/tress/grass, and they'll walk up to you as all things that spawn in tend to do.

You don't need to be hunting at night. You can kill the rabbits and chickens that spawn on your way to your next POI or your Trader. You can even do the same for wolves, cougars, and bears provided you are well-equipped.

i.e. Food is easily gained just by killing things without having to go out of your way to find them.

Anyone who has food problems after the first two weeks are either playing really slow, or doing really useless things such as hunting at night in the pitch black for food.

TLDR Animal Tracker skills are useless right now. Food is abundant.

[admos]

Publicado originalmente por aY227:

Publicado originalmente por Damnion:

Not skill, maxxed skill.

No, on larger scale just 1 point in farming gives you a profit.
Also they added seeds drop from trash/farming shelfs
And maxed skill gives more than before.

Farming was OP AF - zero time/perk investment and you have infinite food.
Good change.

Yes, this is true.
1 point in farming DOES give you a net gain.

Say we start with 10 corn planted and 0 corn in hand. With level 1 Farming.
There's a 50% chance to gain a seed.
Planting and harvesting 10 corn at level 1 provides 40 corn and (10*50%) 5 seeds on average.
At level 1, then, you need 5 additional seeds to be able to sustain yourself.
Each seed is crafted using 5 corn. So you need a total of (5*5) 25 corn.
So you end up with a net of (40-25) 15 corn.
In the end, you have 10 corns planted and 15 corn in hand ready to be cooked when you started off with 10 corns planted and 0 corn in hand.

TLDR you only need 1 point in Farming to be able to sustain your farm.

[Midas]

Publicado originalmente por admos:

Publicado originalmente por Midas:

It's not a waste at all. Anyone who claims they can find every rabbit and chicken nearby without it is a liar, and sure you can get enough meat without it, but it still lets you do it way faster, and even at night in the pitch black. It provides plenty of utility for a single skill point.

You don't need to find EVERY single rabbit and chicken nearby. You just need to walk into a city or something similar where there aren't a lot of bushes/tress/grass, and they'll walk up to you as all things that spawn in tend to do.

You don't need to be hunting at night. You can kill the rabbits and chickens that spawn on your way to your next POI or your Trader. You can even do the same for wolves, cougars, and bears provided you are well-equipped.

i.e. Food is easily gained just by killing things without having to go out of your way to find them.

Anyone who has food problems after the first two weeks are either playing really slow, or doing really useless things such as hunting at night in the pitch black for food.

TLDR Animal Tracker skills are useless right now. Food is abundant.

Yeah, this ignores literally everything a specific player may experience in their play through. It ignores the difficulty they're on, it ignores how well-established they are, it ignores what weapons and tactics they use. Lots of players hunt for food, and if you're hunting for food Animal Tracker makes that faster.

Basically all you're actually saying is you personally don't feel a need to hunt. It's completely irrelevant to anyone who does.

[admos]

Publicado originalmente por Midas:

Publicado originalmente por admos:

You don't need to find EVERY single rabbit and chicken nearby. You just need to walk into a city or something similar where there aren't a lot of bushes/tress/grass, and they'll walk up to you as all things that spawn in tend to do.

You don't need to be hunting at night. You can kill the rabbits and chickens that spawn on your way to your next POI or your Trader. You can even do the same for wolves, cougars, and bears provided you are well-equipped.

i.e. Food is easily gained just by killing things without having to go out of your way to find them.

Anyone who has food problems after the first two weeks are either playing really slow, or doing really useless things such as hunting at night in the pitch black for food.

TLDR Animal Tracker skills are useless right now. Food is abundant.

Yeah, this ignores literally everything a specific player may experience in their play through. It ignores the difficulty they're on, it ignores how well-established they are, it ignores what weapons and tactics they use. Lots of players hunt for food, and if you're hunting for food Animal Tracker makes that faster.

Basically all you're actually saying is you personally don't feel a need to hunt. It's completely irrelevant to anyone who does.

By the way, you're just moving the goalpost. We're talking about "utility per skill point".
Which Animal Tracker does not have a lot of.

But if you wanna tackle that, sure. My statement stands.

Reasons below:

You don't need to hunt regardless because animals will come to you just like zombies do when you make noise. It doesn't matter the difficulty, how far along in the game they are, how they fight, what weapon they use. No, the fact that animals and zombies come to you don't rely on those variables.

Another point:
There is no need for Animal Tracker unless you're doing a "no food from anywhere else but hunts" run.
But who does that? The average player does not do that and should be considered an outlier. Maybe if they made animals a lot more scarce, or have some kind of material that only they drop, then sure, Animal Tracker may be useful.

But ignoring all of that; the data (drop rates of food in containers that provide food using default settings) is there to show that food is abundant. I don't have the numbers, and I'm sure someone can find the info for all that, but I do have the experience.

[MineVoid]

Publicado originalmente por admos:

Publicado originalmente por Midas:

Yeah, this ignores literally everything a specific player may experience in their play through. It ignores the difficulty they're on, it ignores how well-established they are, it ignores what weapons and tactics they use. Lots of players hunt for food, and if you're hunting for food Animal Tracker makes that faster.

Basically all you're actually saying is you personally don't feel a need to hunt. It's completely irrelevant to anyone who does.

By the way, you're just moving the goalpost. We're talking about "utility per skill point".
Which Animal Tracker does not have a lot of.

But if you wanna tackle that, sure. My statement stands.

Reasons below:

You don't need to hunt regardless because animals will come to you just like zombies do when you make noise. It doesn't matter the difficulty, how far along in the game they are, how they fight, what weapon they use. No, the fact that animals and zombies come to you don't rely on those variables.

Another point:
There is no need for Animal Tracker unless you're doing a "no food from anywhere else but hunts" run.
But who does that? The average player does not do that and should be considered an outlier. Maybe if they made animals a lot more scarce, or have some kind of material that only they drop, then sure, Animal Tracker may be useful.

But ignoring all of that; the data (drop rates of food in containers that provide food using default settings) is there to show that food is abundant. I don't have the numbers, and I'm sure someone can find the info for all that, but I do have the experience.

I use the Animal Tracker skill. For me, its very useful. The leather is good to have on day one. And yes, I know some seats contain leather. But hunting is fun. Plus the bones to make glue. And of course, the food. And for me, its easier to hunt animals for food than find cans of food. Of course, as others mentioned, the vending machines. But I prefer to hunt than eat from cans. It gives me a sense of survival if that makes sense. You're alone, naked, and hungry. What is the first thing you're gonna do? Hunt. But those chickens and rabbits are pretty easy to find without the perk. But the deer, and other animals aren't so easy to spot. So I use the perk so I can find them and hunt them, or stay away from if I'm not prepared to fight them yet.

[Mithrandir]

Publicado originalmente por Trunks_Budo:

Farming is utterly useless now, all you need is 1 point in Animal Tracker in the perception tree, and you'll never run out of meat again. You can literally just make it a point to kill chickens and rabbits whenever you're travelling between traders, and you'll rapidly find that you have enough meat to feed a small village, let alone yourself in single player.

I agree with animal tracker as I don't like stopping at each chicken I see when I raid. Just 1 hunting session and I have all the meat I need for a week or more from tracking chickens/rabbits. It works perfectly for the early game indeed.

But farming is far from useless, it's just bad if you have no point in it. Then it's just RNG for seeds.

With 1 or 2 points, it's a steady source of +50 food and better for the middle game.

[RasaNova]

Publicado originalmente por Jonnson:

Publicado originalmente por RasaNova:

I don't think anyone is forgetting anything. If you're talking time, you must also consider the time and luck required to gather the 10 seeds each of potatoes, corn, and mushrooms (for veg stew, the only means of reasonably feeding yourself without other ingredients) OR you need to grow and harvest your own seeds of the same type in order to grow your supply through farming alone, which takes several harvests (which takes considerable time.)

The comparison is spending an entire game day gathering the resources for a 20-plot farm with which you can begin to prepare for sustainable food by mid game, or stopping for a moment periodically to put a bullet in a chicken or fight off the wolf in your back yard for an abundance of food from the start.

Not saying 1 is more viable than the other, and as you said they are different strategies for different moods/[playstyles. But I still believe that maintaining a sustainable farm used to be a fun activity to add variety to our diet, and now it's an optional luxury for people who enjoy it.[/quote]

There are farms everywhere now. It takes about half a game day to get the farm stuff, the other half is stopping to grab eggs, chickens, and boar along the way, for day 1 (not to mention gathering stuff for the forge to make a cooking pot, digging up sand to make jars, and gathering up chrysanthemum, for red tea...and what I need to start a base in wood).

You dont need to wait to mid game for it to be useful, its useful tomorrow, on day 2. I'm harvesting, on average, 5 steak and potatoes a day worth. I tested this 20 times now (20 first day runs). I'm on day 4 now, I have roughly 15 steak and potato. Food is no concern to me at all for the rest of the game. Dont forget that you get some canned food in pois as you go through. So, the harvested food is the base, I can top that off with what I loot. I spent 1 day gathering food, and no more. I will kill boars for meat, they are everywhere as well, and yield more than chickens, but chickens are fine too. I dont even need to do that though, as I can make vegetable stew instead, I just like the animation of steak/potato in my inventory. I will be glad to show you, I'd love to in'fact, I'm getting bored always solo.

20 plots = 10 corn, 10 potato, and 10 mushroom (mushroom is planted in the ground)
Some days you get less, others you get more, it averages to about 10 veggies a day, and replant. Thats about 5 meals per day. Yes, some days are only 2, but then some days are 9. It only takes 2 veggie to make meal, its meat that is 5.

To add to that, one could, and I did a few times in test, finish sweeping the farms on day 2. Those veggies I did not convert into seeds or plant, those I made into meals straight away. There is enough to make several stacks of meat stew, vegetable stew, and steak and potato. This means, if you spend 1 & 1/2 days focused on food you can start with something like 2-3 full stacks of 10 meals, and have a farm yielding another 5 per day. Alternatively, you could spend day all of day 2 gathering more clay, and rotting flesh as well as the veggies, and make a farm that is 60 plots big, yielding a full stack, on average, per day.

This is using gatherer, not farmer.

I can prove this either in game with you, or I can provide video. Video is boring to watch, but itll show you whats up.

I won't say I don't believe you, but I will say I don't think that most people will be sharing your experience of having several stacks of cooked meals in addition to enough seeds for a sustainable 5-meal per day food supply on day 2. (also, do farms mature daily now? I thought it was still 2 days per harvest.)

And if it were true that this WAS easy for anyone to accomplish, then it seems like this change didn't actually fix the issue of farms being an endless early game food supply.