How come this game is still in alpha?

[Jebak]

Hi there,

Please dont get mad and all well... internet like.. when i ask the question " How come this game is still in alpha?".

And dont get me wrong i think its a pretty cool game and i dont regret for a second buying it. was actually just wondering if there was a specific reason for it not being in beta or fully released after so many years :)

[Talilover]

Bet this get's merged with the discussion with over 1000 responses but in case it doesn't...

You probably know why, can't out right say it because then they'll come, but you know why

[Sprocket66]

Originally posted by Twinkletits:

Hi there,

Please dont get mad and all well... internet like.. when i ask the question " How come this game is still in alpha?".

And dont get me wrong i think its a pretty cool game and i dont regret for a second buying it. was actually just wondering if there was a specific reason for it not being in beta or fully released after so many years :)

Some say its just a normal development time table. Some think it's an interesting business model. Come out with a new alpha or update just before each summer/winter sale, spin up the marketing, get some more sales without having to dream up and develop a new product. Stretch that model as long as possible until interest drops below a certain point, then go gold and get the remaining cash from a sales spike.

[Seftak]

Because it is not done yet? Games are GENERALLY not released before they are done.

Except when you have a publisher behind you saying "release the game right now because i'm not paying you anymore" which is the case for 80% of the AAA titles lately...

Originally posted by Sprocket66:

Originally posted by Twinkletits:

Hi there,

Please dont get mad and all well... internet like.. when i ask the question " How come this game is still in alpha?".

And dont get me wrong i think its a pretty cool game and i dont regret for a second buying it. was actually just wondering if there was a specific reason for it not being in beta or fully released after so many years :)

Some say its just a normal development time table. Some think it's an interesting business model. Come out with a new alpha or update just before each summer/winter sale, spin up the marketing, get some more sales without having to dream up and develop a new product. Stretch that model as long as possible until interest drops below a certain point, then go gold and get the remaining cash from a sales spike.

If they did that they would have released the game in like version 14. Sales are pretty much non existent for probably 2 years+ now compared to when it was a fresh early access title... You are just another naysayers, nothing surprising there.

[...👑 JOST AMMAN 👑...]

The "Alpha" state is based on the notion it's not yet complete with all the intended features that were listed in the original Kickstarter (go to the bottom of the page).

Many of those features have been implemented over the years but a few (and I dare say the most ambitious) are going to be implemented in the next 1/2 years. Then the game will be feature-complete, as they say, and will switch to Beta.

Beta is usually focused on bug hunting, balancing and optimization.
After Beta is complete the game will be released.

Many will argue that 7D2D's development has been in development for "too long", but you have to understand that this is a unique project that was initially started by a very small studio and that has become more and more ambitious as the years passed. There have been a few hickups along the road, but they've been constantly developing and never abandoned the game (as some say).

The Fun Pimps founders themselves, have declared they'll take all the time they deem necessary to achieve their intial vision goal and that right now 90% of their team is focused on 7D2D (now, after years, they're a total of around 56/7 people including contractors).

The good news is that this game has been (for most people) very playable for many years and gets better and more stable after each Alpha release.

[player144]

When have you ever heard a company say: "Let's rush this product out, i want it to be perfect"...

Generally speaking, making things quick and easy is a consequence of financial interests. Taking time to make something slow and taking the hard/difficult route is a consequence of passion.

[Sprocket66]

Originally posted by Seftak:

Because it is not done yet? Games are GENERALLY not released before they are done.

Except when you have a publisher behind you saying "release the game right now because i'm not paying you anymore" which is the case for 80% of the AAA titles lately...

Originally posted by Sprocket66:

Some say its just a normal development time table. Some think it's an interesting business model. Come out with a new alpha or update just before each summer/winter sale, spin up the marketing, get some more sales without having to dream up and develop a new product. Stretch that model as long as possible until interest drops below a certain point, then go gold and get the remaining cash from a sales spike.

If they did that they would have released the game in like version 14. Sales are pretty much non existent for probably 2 years+ now compared to when it was a fresh early access title... You are just another naysayers, nothing surprising there.

Yes, I'm sure the sales aren't what they were. But obviously the revenue stream is still enough to support the 50+ employee's that they currently have. I highly doubt they are currently losing money or they would be shedding employee's instead of adding them. I'm not knocking the business model, it's actually fairly clever.

It should position them properly for the next title that the 7 or so employee's are working on. From the time table on 7d2d and when they started working on the new project it should be ready for EA when 7d2d goes gold.

[Crashtian]

Originally posted by ⚜ JOST AMMAN ⚜:

The "Alpha" state is based on the notion it's not yet complete with all the intended features that were listed in the original Kickstarter (go to the bottom of the page).

Many of those features have been implemented over the years but a few (and I dare say the most ambitious) are going to be implemented in the next 1/2 years. Then the game will be feature-complete, as they say, and will switch to Beta.

Beta is usually focused on bug hunting, balancing and optimization.
After Beta is complete the game will be released.

Many will argue that 7D2D's development has been in development for "too long", but you have to understand that this is a unique project that was initially started by a very small studio and that has become more and more ambitious as the years passed. There have been a few hickups along the road, but they've been constantly developing and never abandoned the game (as some say).

The Fun Pimps founders themselves, have declared they'll take all the time they deem necessary to achieve their intial vision goal and that right now 90% of their team is focused on 7D2D (now, after years, they're a total of around 56/7 people including contractors).

The good news is that this game has been (for most people) very playable for many years and gets better and more stable after each Alpha release.

I have nothing to say about your post, I just want to point out that OUR threads get shut down for stirring the pot, when this is exactly the same thing just "nice"

But what do I know I'm Just a Man.

[Ragequit Inc.]

Generally (or let's say, back in the old days) games are in the Alpha stage when not all of the MAJOR features aren't yet implemented (as is the case here).

Then scroll the timeline to 'today' and companies are releasing games as 'gone gold', like for example Cyberpunk, where the game has half the features people expected.

You be the judge which is better.

[-=kirito*48=-]

they change it almost 3 or 4 time the game, dont ask why it still alpha phase.....

[Seftak]

Originally posted by Ragequit Inc.:

Generally (or let's say, back in the old days) games are in the Alpha stage when not all of the MAJOR features aren't yet implemented (as is the case here).

Then scroll the timeline to 'today' and companies are releasing games as 'gone gold', like for example Cyberpunk, where the game has half the features people expected.

You be the judge which is better.

Best example is No Mans Sky, which is now an awesome game btw, where not even 10% of what was shown and promised was in at release. And a lot of stuff was straight lies when showing the demos...

[player144]

I think the general public is accustomed to things going certain ways.. And when it doesnt, they start to complain.

For example, the general idea is for game development is that it takes about 5 years for a project to complete.

But then there are so many variables that aren't taken into account. Such as AI programming, object modeling, texturing, rigging/animating, svfx, particle systems, and technicians in general, sound and music, etc..

For a team of 100 people all being specialized into some subject, sure you can push a project to completion in a period of 4-5 years...

But guess what, this is steam, which revolutionized solo, independent developers, and giving them a chance to compete against such companies such as bethesda and bioware...

But you can't expect those solo/independent devs to compete on the same professional level as a well organized company with their resources...

I doubt, that this statement is going to do any good, but i hope it does.

In any case, i'm going downstairs to grab another beer :P

[Shurenai]

Originally posted by Sprocket66:

Originally posted by Seftak:

Because it is not done yet? Games are GENERALLY not released before they are done.

Except when you have a publisher behind you saying "release the game right now because i'm not paying you anymore" which is the case for 80% of the AAA titles lately...



If they did that they would have released the game in like version 14. Sales are pretty much non existent for probably 2 years+ now compared to when it was a fresh early access title... You are just another naysayers, nothing surprising there.

Yes, I'm sure the sales aren't what they were. But obviously the revenue stream is still enough to support the 50+ employee's that they currently have. I highly doubt they are currently losing money or they would be shedding employee's instead of adding them. I'm not knocking the business model, it's actually fairly clever.

It should position them properly for the next title that the 7 or so employee's are working on. From the time table on 7d2d and when they started working on the new project it should be ready for EA when 7d2d goes gold.

You're making the mistake of assuming that 'losing money' means 'Already near $0 and going into debt'. I've done some back of the napkin approximation in other threads; But basically while they have made a crap ton of money in total, It is far less than people think; But at the same time, it is still multiple millions of dollars that they have in the vault. They could coast on that paying employees(yes, even the increased employee count)/leases/maintenence fees/other fees for several years before hitting the point where they're fretting over finances even if they make $0 for those several years.

They are potentially(likely) in the red on continuing profits; By which I mean the incoming revenue from sales is potentially beneath their expenditures. But if they make 500k a year and spend 600k, it's still going to take a LONG time before they've dug through the money they've stored up and employees have to start worrying about it. Ideally they'll still have enough money to start work on the next game too; But they certainly have enough to shoulder the onus of finishing the game the way they intended.


TL;DR: Even if sales are lower than expenditures, It does not automatically follow that 'omg bankruptcy, mass employee exodus'.

(If you'd like to see the napkin approximation, lemme know. I'll go dig it up later.)

Originally posted by player144:

I think the general public is accustomed to things going certain ways.. And when it doesnt, they start to complain.

For example, the general idea is for game development is that it takes about 5 years for a project to complete.

YES. Exactly. Only, The general idea that the general public has is that games are finished in 1-2 years; Because that's how long it is between the announcement at something like E3/Nintendo direct and eventual release.

It's painfully rare for a game to be announced more than 2 years ahead of time- And typically, if it is, it probably just got cancelled and they're hoping you forgot about it. There are examples of it, games being announced as much as 3 or 4 years before the eventual release- But that's bad for business, It's too long to maintain the hype for.

And so, To the average layman, Game development as a whole basically fits within that 1-2 year period, since they dont really think about it; It's not a natural logical path to think "oh hey this must have been in the works for 3-5+ years before the announcement" unless you're 'in the know' on the subject. (And game developers/publishers/etc want to keep the general public in the dark about it, because of topics like this- It's an incessant negative feedback loop of "OMG ITS STILL IN DEVELOPMENT!!!??!" that just demoralizes, and makes them seem like a bad company in the eyes of the public.)

[player144]

@Shurenai

One point: i don't think its entirely true what you said, because the marketplace didnt start to complain after 2 years... its now, after 5-7 years...

[Shurenai]

Originally posted by player144:

@Shurenai

One point: i don't think its entirely true what you said, because the marketplace didnt start to complain after 2 years... its now, after 5-7 years...

People have been complaining that 7DTD has been in development for too long since a bare 8 months in. This isn't a new line of complaint that only started after 5-7 years.

[player144]

But doesn't it matter when the market starts to complain after 2 years or 5 years? Don't indicications matter anymore?