Please make the mining bonuses apply to clay

[Grumpy Old Guy]

Currently there are a plethora of bonuses to mining iron, lead, coal, nitrate, and stone.

Between Coffee, Rock Breaker candy, and the mining set you can get a sizable bonus and easily dig up 100K+ of any of those resources in record time.

The problem as I see it is that to make steel you also need clay and a fair amount of it.

When you go to dig it up you realize the mining set doesn't apply to shovels nor does it boost clay gathering. Rock Breakers and Coffee don't seem to either.

That leaves only motherload as the sole thing that boosts clay gathering which makes gathering clay painfully slow compared to anything else.

With the right bonuses I can net like 200 materials per swing of the pick, clay I'm currently getting 35.

Considering clay is used for cobblestone, forged iron, and forged steel it would be great if the mining bonuses worked on it too.

If not that, at least change the farming gloves to give bonuses to gathering clay instead of rifle damage. Clay is needed to make farm blocks so it fits at least and there are other armor sets that boost ranged damage anyway.

[Horemvore]

Clay is super easy to get(first 5-8m of the terrain is clay) and it also gives you a 1 to 5 ratio in the forge, do not see the issue here.

[Grumpy Old Guy]

Originally posted by Horemvore:

Clay is super easy to get(first 5-8m of the terrain is clay) and it also gives you a 1 to 5 ratio in the forge, do not see the issue here.

Yeah, not anywhere in my post did I say I was having trouble finding the thing that an entire biom floor is made of.

Now try gathering ten stacks of it and see how long that takes compared to ten stacks of iron and tell me there's no problem.

[Horemvore]

Originally posted by Grumpy Old Guy:

Originally posted by Horemvore:

Clay is super easy to get(first 5-8m of the terrain is clay) and it also gives you a 1 to 5 ratio in the forge, do not see the issue here.

Yeah, not anywhere in my post did I say I was having trouble finding the thing that an entire biom floor is made of.

Now try gathering ten stacks of it and see how long that takes compared to ten stacks of iron and tell me there's no problem.

It could take 5 times longer and its still even with Iron, since you get 5x more in the forge for it. 4 mins for 1 stack, pretty sure you cant get 5 stacks of iron in that time.

[Grumpy Old Guy]

Originally posted by Horemvore:

Originally posted by Grumpy Old Guy:

Yeah, not anywhere in my post did I say I was having trouble finding the thing that an entire biom floor is made of.

Now try gathering ten stacks of it and see how long that takes compared to ten stacks of iron and tell me there's no problem.

It could take 5 times longer and its still even with Iron, since you get 5x more in the forge for it. 4 mins for 1 stack, pretty sure you cant get 5 stacks of iron in that time.

Did you just not read anything I said in the original post?

I routinely mine 100k of those resources and its a joke how fast you can do that compared to gathering clay. That's the entire point I'm trying to make here.

[ToxicBoo]

Don't forget to dig up the blocks of clay and potted plants you find in POIs, that's a pretty decent way to accumulate clay while looting.

How much forged iron/steel are you using on average? One stack of clay in a forge lasts me quite a while generally.

[Grumpy Old Guy]

Originally posted by ToxicBoo:

Don't forget to dig up the blocks of clay and potted plants you find in POIs, that's a pretty decent way to accumulate clay while looting.

How much forged iron/steel are you using on average? One stack of clay in a forge lasts me quite a while generally.

I have a thousand hours in this game.

I have used a LOT of steel.

To explain my point here I'll just use the actual numbers.

A single block unit of iron gives baseline around 100 iron.
A single block unit of Clay gives 20 clay.

Now a single unit of iron has more HP than a single unit of clay does but that only matters if you can't one shot both with steel tools.

Mining armor at tier 6 gives you 30% reduction in stamina use, 30% more material per ore, and 50% ore damage. Add rockbreakers, Coffee, and the bonus from art of mining and without a single skill point spent you're looking at 80% more material per block for around 180 iron per swing vs 20 clay.

Now factor in that you can't even swing the shovel without resting because you have no stamina reduction on shovels without skill points and mining iron is about ten times faster.

Assuming you went the full 7 levels into strength and then spent another 5 levels into motherload and Miner 69er you can at least swing the shovel as fast as the pick, but even with that you're only getting 40 clay per swing compared to the near 300 iron per swing.

Using an auger might make it easier, I still need to test it in this update but I know for a fact the auger is slower than the pick axe for some reason mining iron.

If you do decide to use the auger be ready because you will be absolutely swimming in screamers too.

[ToxicBoo]

Originally posted by Grumpy Old Guy:

Originally posted by ToxicBoo:

Don't forget to dig up the blocks of clay and potted plants you find in POIs, that's a pretty decent way to accumulate clay while looting.

How much forged iron/steel are you using on average? One stack of clay in a forge lasts me quite a while generally.

I have a thousand hours in this game.

I have used a LOT of steel.

To explain my point here I'll just use the actual numbers.

A single block unit of iron gives baseline around 100 iron.
A single block unit of Clay gives 20 clay.

Now a single unit of iron has more HP than a single unit of clay does but that only matters if you can't one shot both with steel tools.

Mining armor at tier 6 gives you 30% reduction in stamina use, 30% more material per ore, and 50% ore damage. Add rockbreakers, Coffee, and the bonus from art of mining and without a single skill point spent you're looking at 80% more material per block for around 180 iron per swing vs 20 clay.

Now factor in that you can't even swing the shovel without resting because you have no stamina reduction on shovels without skill points and mining iron is about ten times faster.

Assuming you went the full 7 levels into strength and then spent another 5 levels into motherload and Miner 69er you can at least swing the shovel as fast as the pick, but even with that you're only getting 40 clay per swing compared to the near 300 iron per swing.

Using an auger might make it easier, I still need to test it in this update but I know for a fact the auger is slower than the pick axe for some reason mining iron.

Thanks for the info, I wasn't familiar with a lot of this.

You can dig through soil very quickly with an auger, it's what I use by the time I need more clay in large amounts; just mind the heat generation. I assume auger is slower on iron to make up for it using no stamina.

It's very silly none of those bonuses work on clay. Wouldn't be the first odd design choice by TFP though.

[Grumpy Old Guy]

I just tested it, mining clay with the auger is MUCH faster than using the shovel.

You can get three stacks of it in practically no time, which is really strange because the auger is much slower than the pickaxe for mining actual ore.

TFP balance I guess what are you gonna do.

[onanonehand8]

I dunno, I have no rational argument against your suggestion. Other than, why not just have no cost in time?

What is that balance? And should there be an equal time and effort for all resource gathering?

I get that it would make things a bit more quantifiable.

Overall, not a fan of this plan.

[Horemvore]

Originally posted by Grumpy Old Guy:

Originally posted by Horemvore:

It could take 5 times longer and its still even with Iron, since you get 5x more in the forge for it. 4 mins for 1 stack, pretty sure you cant get 5 stacks of iron in that time.

Did you just not read anything I said in the original post?

I routinely mine 100k of those resources and its a joke how fast you can do that compared to gathering clay. That's the entire point I'm trying to make here.

I read it fine. 35 Clay is equal to 175 iron. Your getting 150 iron from 1 swing of the pick.

1 Iron = 1 Forged Iron
1 Clay = 5 Forged Clay.

175 vs 150, clay is on top, maybe you dont understand math?

6000 Clay is 30000 in the Forge, you need 60000 Iron to use all that Clay if your making bars from it. 1 Stack of Clay for 10 Stacks of Iron.
1000's of hours in game you say, but you cant grasp this basic (1 = 5) conversion.

[Mithrandir]

I don't see any problem with Grumpy's suggestion.

[Grumpy Old Guy]

Originally posted by Horemvore:

Originally posted by Grumpy Old Guy:

Did you just not read anything I said in the original post?

I routinely mine 100k of those resources and its a joke how fast you can do that compared to gathering clay. That's the entire point I'm trying to make here.

I read it fine. 35 Clay is equal to 175 iron. Your getting 150 iron from 1 swing of the pick.

1 Iron = 1 Forged Iron
1 Clay = 5 Forged Clay.

175 vs 150, clay is on top, maybe you dont understand math?

If you bothered to look up slightly you'd see the exact math I just gave you, but, you know, that would require reading.

[Horemvore]

Originally posted by Grumpy Old Guy:

Originally posted by Horemvore:

I read it fine. 35 Clay is equal to 175 iron. Your getting 150 iron from 1 swing of the pick.

1 Iron = 1 Forged Iron
1 Clay = 5 Forged Clay.

175 vs 150, clay is on top, maybe you dont understand math?

If you bothered to look up slightly you'd see the exact math I just gave you, but, you know, that would require reading.

Actually you gave it to ToxicBoo.

And by your own math, Clay and Iron are even stevens, clay takes 10x longer to get, but you need 10x more iron to use up the clay.

You get the clay bonus at the forge with the 5x return. Digging dirt is not mining, but you want mining perks to effect digging so you can get the same bonus for digging you do for mining, so you basically want double bonus for digging dirt. One bonus from perks and one Bonus from the Forge conversion. GL with that request. But then if you was serious you wouldnt have posted your request on steam forums :D

[Grumpy Old Guy]

Originally posted by Horemvore:

Originally posted by Grumpy Old Guy:

If you bothered to look up slightly you'd see the exact math I just gave you, but, you know, that would require reading.

Actually you gave it to ToxicBoo.

And by your own math, Clay and Iron are even stevens, clay takes 10x longer to get, but you need 10x more iron to use up the clay.

You get the clay bonus at the forge with the 5x return. Digging dirt is not mining, but yopu want mining perks to effect digging so you can get the same bonus for digging you do for mining, so you basically want double bonus for digging dirt. One bonus from perks and one Bonus from the Forge conversion. GL with that request. But then if you was serious you wouldnt have posted your request on steam forums :D

Again, I don't think you fully grasp how many things need clay.

Crop plots, Bullet tips, Bullet casings, every single item made of iron or steel, just about every single weapon, tool, vehicle, turret, trap, and ammunition type needs clay at some point.

Clay is something you'll need on day one and you won't stop needing it even up to day 100.

Given how many things use it, it is absolutely nuts to me that there isn't any way to boost it's gather rate other than one skill in the strength tree. No magazine bonuses, no candy, no armor. It's the only raw material you can't boost the gathering speed of without spending perk points.

I mean they made bloody wood gathering armor, when do you ever use wood after day maybe 5? Assuming you're not insane and making a forest of wood spikes for some reason you almost never need to touch a tree but there's an entire armor set for that, +50% gathering for something you won't even need, but nothing for clay. They made a perk book that gives you the ability to throw yourself off a building and not take damage, but nothing to gather clay. There are literally multiple perk books now that give you bonuses that don't even do anything anymore because they removed clothing and temperature, but nothing to gather clay.

Is it a big deal? Not really. Is it that annoying to farm? Again, not really. Do I still find it absolutely baffling from a game design perspective? Yup.

[Pain Weasel]

The easiest solution is to just add the "miningTool" tag to the 3 shovels in items.xml, since that is what the mining set uses to determine which items get the bonus.

I agree it is odd that shovels don't have that tag but I'm not sure it is necessary. Then again I'm not mining 100K of resources so maybe I'm not a good judge. Either way, add the tag and try it out, if it suits you maybe add it to a custom modlet.