7 Days to Die

7 Days to Die

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I just want to say, Fist/Brawler builds really need some love early to mid game
I know they are great at the end game, but literally any build is good end game. Early and mid game brawler builds is just hell.
There really ought to be some sort of blocking option with fist and the fact that bosses can just 3 shot you means fist builds aren't even practical.

Why fight a zombie up close when guns/crossbows/bows are just so much better. Don't even get me started on blood moons. I play with a group who can carry me on the fist build but if I was solo there would be no way I would be able to really do this
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Showing 1-15 of 33 comments
Midas Aug 4, 2024 @ 10:01pm 
Fists definitely feel pretty bad now. I don't know if it's just the increased RNG potentially screwing you out of upgrades or perk books, but it feels like it's just missing so much compared to other weapons.
BigBallinChester Aug 4, 2024 @ 10:04pm 
Originally posted by Midas:
Fists definitely feel pretty bad now. I don't know if it's just the increased RNG potentially screwing you out of upgrades or perk books, but it feels like it's just missing so much compared to other weapons.
yeah fists are in a bad spot. Every weapon has better range than it and honestly it doesn't take much to repair any weapon so there's no practical reason to use fist weapons especially since you HAVE to get close to use which means they can easily mess you up. If upgrading fist also meant your health shot up or you could block or you had more stamnia it would be worth it.
Midas Aug 4, 2024 @ 10:16pm 
Originally posted by Ohio?MoreLikeOhHellNo!:
Originally posted by Midas:
Fists definitely feel pretty bad now. I don't know if it's just the increased RNG potentially screwing you out of upgrades or perk books, but it feels like it's just missing so much compared to other weapons.
yeah fists are in a bad spot. Every weapon has better range than it and honestly it doesn't take much to repair any weapon so there's no practical reason to use fist weapons especially since you HAVE to get close to use which means they can easily mess you up. If upgrading fist also meant your health shot up or you could block or you had more stamnia it would be worth it.

NORMALLY fists weapons are just a late bloomer, because once you have all the perk books, fists become amazing, but it's like they're designed around this and have little to nothing going for them otherwise, and now that the loot requires substantial investment BEFORE you really get a lot out of it, the fists just feel like a dud weapon in the early game. Like you're expected to just ignore them and use another weapon until RNG gives you steel knuckles and most of the brawler perk books.

Batons are in a similar boat of being garbage, but at least for the batons it's exclusively because of the pipe baton. As soon as you get a stun baton, regardless of perks, it becomes an exponentially better weapon. Fist doesn't have anything to give it a sudden boost like that when going into the mid-game. Brass knuckles are just a small upgrade over leather knuckles, and the normal perks do practically nothing to improve anything beyond the weapon's damage.

A big part of it might also be that they lean on stagger a lot, and stagger is probably the stupidest combat mechanic in the game since most of the time it's actually BAD when you stagger an enemy. It just causes them to fall TOWARDS you or lets them attack you without having any obvious attack animation.
Astasia Aug 4, 2024 @ 11:30pm 
You need beer to make brawling work early game. Down a beer and you are a wrecking ball and can plow through enemies. I think that is where the balance point is.

If you are out of beer, switch to a spear TBH.
Midas Aug 4, 2024 @ 11:38pm 
Originally posted by Astasia:
You need beer to make brawling work early game. Down a beer and you are a wrecking ball and can plow through enemies. I think that is where the balance point is.

If you are out of beer, switch to a spear TBH.

That's part of it too. Water changes + needing investment to have any realistic chance of getting a beer recipe makes the opportunity cost of actually having beer on hand way too unrealistic.
Kryzx Aug 4, 2024 @ 11:48pm 
Not to mention, beers were easily obtainable buying from the vending machines because we got so much dukes from quest rewards. Now, you're likely to have a second look if you should spend 300 for a beer/1500 for a moonshine with the little amount of dukes we can obtain. I typically won't find beers in the beer cartons at such a low lootstage until I've leveled up a bit too.

You could also put points into Intellect to make a chem station, but then crafting beers & moonshine will take some time and valuable resources as well that you won't have early on, if you even unlock it early.
Ralph Aug 5, 2024 @ 1:01am 
Makes me want to try it for the challenge. Im usually a knife guy, so not too far off. As Far as horde night goes, I rarely use melee. Your welcome for my 2 cents.
Pisaro Aug 5, 2024 @ 2:31am 
Originally posted by Ohio?MoreLikeOhHellNo!:
Originally posted by Midas:
Fists definitely feel pretty bad now. I don't know if it's just the increased RNG potentially screwing you out of upgrades or perk books, but it feels like it's just missing so much compared to other weapons.
yeah fists are in a bad spot. Every weapon has better range than it and honestly it doesn't take much to repair any weapon so there's no practical reason to use fist weapons especially since you HAVE to get close to use which means they can easily mess you up. If upgrading fist also meant your health shot up or you could block or you had more stamnia it would be worth it.
And that is a good thing, fists should be even weaker. Because nobody would try to fight with his fists against zombies when he can have real weapons.
Midas Aug 5, 2024 @ 2:35am 
Originally posted by トルステン:
Originally posted by Ohio?MoreLikeOhHellNo!:
yeah fists are in a bad spot. Every weapon has better range than it and honestly it doesn't take much to repair any weapon so there's no practical reason to use fist weapons especially since you HAVE to get close to use which means they can easily mess you up. If upgrading fist also meant your health shot up or you could block or you had more stamnia it would be worth it.
And that is a good thing, fists should be even weaker. Because nobody would try to fight with his fists against zombies when he can have real weapons.

It would make a lot more sense if you had improvised melee attacks like weapon bashes and kicks, and that was what fortitude's weapon specialization was, and then the actual fist weapons were just a bonus to compliment that.
Scyris Aug 5, 2024 @ 2:37am 
Melee is pretty useless once ferals are around though in general, it just doesn't do enough damage, and they feel almost immune to most crowd control weapons have. I used to in a21.2 melee everything even radiated zombies, but in a22? I always seem to get hit at least once each feral, as they just ignore crowd control stuff. Clubs aren't nearly as good as they used to be.

I would go spear, but I hate the stat system, and I hate the idea of wasting points in perception when the ONLY skill I want in the line is spears and thats it. IMO all the weapons need to be removed from stats, and all put into their own new 6th stat, with the stat effecting headshot/dismember chance as usual, but the weapon perk and its attack speed perk are al in the same stat. I go str first, as miner 69'er 4 is pretty vital for poi exploration, get steel pickaxe, and you can smash thru anything pretty fast. I only use lockpicks on cop cars, and I don't waste skill points on the perk, as the perk basically does nothing as its still completly rng. I've ran a game where I maxxed it, and never really noticed a diff, still would use the same amount of lockpicks per locked item on average as I would without the perk.
Scyris Aug 5, 2024 @ 2:40am 
Originally posted by Midas:
Originally posted by トルステン:
And that is a good thing, fists should be even weaker. Because nobody would try to fight with his fists against zombies when he can have real weapons.

It would make a lot more sense if you had improvised melee attacks like weapon bashes and kicks, and that was what fortitude's weapon specialization was, and then the actual fist weapons were just a bonus to compliment that.

My question is why doesn't every weapon have a "push" action that can push zombies back or interupt their attack, or even an ability to block which prevents crit hits and grants damage reduction based on the melee weapon type, maybe at a durability cost on the weapon when its hit. Maybe add a perfect block system which stuns the zombie if you time the block right. The combat system in 7dtd honestly has not changed since alpha 10.2 much at all. It really needs a overhaul to add more to it, its extremly barebones at best atm.
Reeva! Aug 5, 2024 @ 2:50am 
Might be cuz fists can be buffed by Beer, +300% damage, when other weapons cannot. Moonshine gives you +400% damage and 20HP per second. Then you got your books and weapon mods. You still get beaten to a pulp but Health Bars makes any injury go away really quickly after treatment.

I do wish early game - mid game fists were a bit better, cuz yes you can become disgusting with buffs, but so can a club user with just Moonshine. I have no idea if Beer pushes you above other melee builds when you have every buff, 300% seems like a lot, but it's fists.
MoistGamer Aug 5, 2024 @ 4:16am 
One of the guys around here who talks about his melee builds a lot is taking a forced vacation. One of those folks who have a tough time not raging out yknow?

But when they do come back, they'll tell you how OP it is and in their 150 hours of playing since 1.0, its pretty darn good.

As to your question "Why fight a zombie up close when guns/crossbows/bows are just so much better."

I dont know, I've ALWAYS said that melee is a role playing choice you can make in this game since you have unlimited ammo. Its not needed, its just a fun choice people make "just because". Its not better than ranged, its not, no matter how they twist it.

In a survival situation youd never voluntarily get close to them, ever.

Or you would and youd be an idiot.
Last edited by MoistGamer; Aug 5, 2024 @ 4:17am
Scyris Aug 5, 2024 @ 4:41am 
Originally posted by MoistGamer:
One of the guys around here who talks about his melee builds a lot is taking a forced vacation. One of those folks who have a tough time not raging out yknow?

But when they do come back, they'll tell you how OP it is and in their 150 hours of playing since 1.0, its pretty darn good.

As to your question "Why fight a zombie up close when guns/crossbows/bows are just so much better."

I dont know, I've ALWAYS said that melee is a role playing choice you can make in this game since you have unlimited ammo. Its not needed, its just a fun choice people make "just because". Its not better than ranged, its not, no matter how they twist it.

In a survival situation youd never voluntarily get close to them, ever.

Or you would and youd be an idiot.

Must mean the people in the walking dead are top tier idiots, as they go up to zombies with little 3 inch knives and kill them easly. How do they even get a small blade like that thru the skull is beyond me, the amount of force you would need would be a hell of alot higher than you see them use in that show.

Melee overall is in a really bad place in 7dtd atm, it honestly needs a massive damage increase to be viable on ferals and up, the current weapons just do not hit hard enough, then again guns have needed a damage increase for a long time as well. As most of the guns save for the shotgun feels like I'm shooting a bb gun using foam bb's at the zombies for how little it does to ferals.
Juvante Aug 5, 2024 @ 2:10pm 
Fist. Terrible range, terrible damage. No special moves or blocking or dodging.

Have to rely on beer which is a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ 1m buff with vision blur, yea that's really helpful.

Some zombies have 2000 health which means if you don't have max rank brawling with the 50% dismember, you are going to die to groups. Not only that but think about all the debuffs you're going to get. And all the armor damage you are going to have to repair.

This game is way better with stealth, long range guns/bows and avoiding physical contact with zombies.
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Date Posted: Aug 4, 2024 @ 9:56pm
Posts: 33