Skills/ Perks rework needed!?

[Nadeltrauma]

The arrangement of the skills and perks doesn't work at all and urgently needs an overhaul.

Every player is dependent on crafts, medicine and vehicles, but unfortunately everything is rooted in the int tree, which increases the chance of finding the important books.
But that makes absolutely no sense for players who want to skill for strength/tank right from the start.

My idea is this... out with the Strength, Int and Agility system
and a direct system with the divisions listed below

Firearms
Close combat
Survive
Business
mechanics

You shouldn't necessarily have to skill up in intelligence before you get access to various bonuses in, for example, vehicles. But a direct bonus if, for example, I skill the pistol in the Firearms perk.

Further thoughts or suggestions:
Point 1: Exchange books or make them craftable if you desperately want to hold on to books. My preference would be to be able to buy books but level up in the free world by using skills. Example, I'm dismantling a vehicle and getting closer to my dream of crafting one.
Point 2: I don't want to be forced into weapon combos by the perks. I choose a close-up or shooting weapon and these should then be buffed directly with my skill points.
Point 3: Skilling a supercategory such as strength to improve cooking rarely feels stupid. The points for the super category are gone and the direct category is more expensive but also more rewarding.
Example: the bonuses in the vehicle category are way too poor and you're just skilling this nonsense to get more books and that's clearly the wrong approach.
Point 4: Traps and electronics should be a natural part of the craft. Skill points in these categories make things better, stronger, cheaper and more efficient but please don't let me have to skill it so that the books drop in order to be able to build a trap at all.


I know that you can reskill and end up with enough points for the important perks, but the system feels completely wrong at both ends.

Sry for my worst englisch

[LukyMSant]

I would say the entire skill system needs a revamp, because of the way it just stacks buffs over each other, but also severely limits integral game mechanics, hopefully the Devs will consider changing it one day, the same as they did with the armor sets, tho maybe betterly done.

[Seftak]

Totally agree. Just removing the eeee... Attributes? Stats? S.P.E.C.I.A.L? How do you call strenght, agi, etc? And having more skills and levels of them would be better.

So you don't need to put points into intel which only give bonus to baton damage you will never have a use for unless you use batons for example.

[Nerevar]

yes. lets dumb the game down even further. what a great idea. lets make everyone a jack of all trades from the get go. so there is zero brain power required and no choice to be made anymore.

[Fido]

I have suggested this a long time ago, but I think it'd be a lot better if skill points were spent on skills, and some other currency (like dukes and training via traders) would help bring up those base abilities.

Could even do it tiered, Rekt gets you up to level 4, Jen 5 and 6, Bob gives you 7 and 8, Hugh gives you 9 and 10, and then Joel can maybe get you something real special, like a deal-closer on any skill. With price for each trader also going up, so dukes have more importance, with how easy to cheese they are. Or getting them as quest rewards, optionally, of course!

[onanonehand8]

I think a rework is second to the "I win" button. It's soon, I can tell ya.

[Pain Weasel]

I don't necessarily disagree with moving some skills around, but I do absolutely disagree with your reasoning.

You seem to want to be able to play a hyper focused build from day 1, but without any of the downsides to doing so. It isn't like those few extra skill points are hard to get anyway, particularly with the abundance of the new attribute mods. It just seems lazy to want everything handed to you without putting in the work.

Progression in this game is already too short and something like this would only shorten it even more.

[Seftak]

Originally posted by Nerevar:

yes. lets dumb the game down even further. what a great idea. lets make everyone a jack of all trades from the get go. so there is zero brain power required and no choice to be made anymore.

A copy of Fallout 4 skill system is not really a good system to begin with... Having a more expanded skill system with sub skills dependent on main skills related to them would be better than just wasting level in attributes which serves no purpose other than weapon damage.

Actually the current system FORCES you to be a jack of all trade if you want to do anything.
Want to craft vehicles? Here are your damage bonus with batons.
Want to have better loot? Here are your rifles damage bonus.
Want to be a farmer? You get it...

Why should i waste points into shotgun just to be a farmer.

[Pain Weasel]

Originally posted by Seftak:

Actually the current system FORCES you to be a jack of all trade if you want to do anything.
Want to craft vehicles? Here are your damage bonus with batons.
Want to have better loot? Here are your rifles damage bonus.
Want to be a farmer? You get it...

Why should i waste points into shotgun just to be a farmer.

WTF are you talking about?

Who is making you put points in a Strength weapon skill in order to use an Fortitude skill?

Want to craft vehicles? Just buy the parts from the traders and assemble them. The skill is not required to do that. You only need the skill to craft the parts (chassis, handlebars etc) not to make the vehicle, and you can get the parts without crafting.

Want a workbench but don't want to increase INT? Just buy it. Traders sell all of the workstations. Every single one. The sell literally everything you can possibly craft from the workstation skill.

[Fido]

Originally posted by Seftak:

A copy of Fallout 4 skill system

You kind of, immediately lost me here.

While the skill system has changed, it has always fundamentally been like this, mostly, and...

... this game has existed since before Fallout 4?

[Seftak]

Originally posted by Fido:

Originally posted by Seftak:

A copy of Fallout 4 skill system

You kind of, immediately lost me here.

While the skill system has changed, it has always fundamentally been like this, mostly, and...

... this game has existed since before Fallout 4?

Realese date of Fallout 4? 2015
Release date of alpha 17? 2018

You know we did not always have the current skill system we have, right?

[Fido]

Originally posted by Seftak:

Originally posted by Fido:

You kind of, immediately lost me here.

While the skill system has changed, it has always fundamentally been like this, mostly, and...

... this game has existed since before Fallout 4?

Realese date of Fallout 4? 2015
Release date of alpha 17? 2018

You know we did not always have the current skill system we have, right?

I've been here since A14. Yes, I know it's different, but the one before that I recall not being fundamentally unrecognizable.

[Seftak]

Originally posted by Pain Weasel:

Originally posted by Seftak:

Actually the current system FORCES you to be a jack of all trade if you want to do anything.
Want to craft vehicles? Here are your damage bonus with batons.
Want to have better loot? Here are your rifles damage bonus.
Want to be a farmer? You get it...

Why should i waste points into shotgun just to be a farmer.

WTF are you talking about?

Who is making you put points in a Strength weapon skill in order to use an Fortitude skill?

Want to craft vehicles? Just buy the parts from the traders and assemble them. The skill is not required to do that. You only need the skill to craft the parts (chassis, handlebars etc) not to make the vehicle, and you can get the parts without crafting.

Want a workbench but don't want to increase INT? Just buy it. Traders sell all of the workstations. Every single one. The sell literally everything you can possibly craft from the workstation skill.

Machine gun... Just said the wrong firearm for ♥♥♥♥ sake.

Using the trader is not a fix to a flawed skill system.

[Seftak]

Originally posted by Fido:

Originally posted by Seftak:

Realese date of Fallout 4? 2015
Release date of alpha 17? 2018

You know we did not always have the current skill system we have, right?

I've been here since A14. Yes, I know it's different, but the one before that I recall not being fundamentally unrecognizable.

The "learn by doing" skill tree we had was a placeholder that's part of the Unity base code anyone can use for their game. The one we have right now is a pure copy of Fallout 4 minus hard level requirements, which we had with the previous skill system. And prior to alpha 14 we did not even have a skill system, it was just Minecraft.

[Pain Weasel]

Originally posted by Seftak:

Originally posted by Pain Weasel:

WTF are you talking about?

Who is making you put points in a Strength weapon skill in order to use an Fortitude skill?

Want to craft vehicles? Just buy the parts from the traders and assemble them. The skill is not required to do that. You only need the skill to craft the parts (chassis, handlebars etc) not to make the vehicle, and you can get the parts without crafting.

Want a workbench but don't want to increase INT? Just buy it. Traders sell all of the workstations. Every single one. The sell literally everything you can possibly craft from the workstation skill.

Machine gun... Just said the wrong firearm for ♥♥♥♥ sake.

Using the trader is not a fix to a flawed skill system.

Maybe not, but you are acting like someone is forcing you into a type of game play, when nobody is.

"Actually the current system FORCES you to be a jack of all trade if you want to do anything." ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

It may be a flawed system, but that is an outright falsehood. You may not like the alternatives, but they exist.

[Fido]

Originally posted by Seftak:

Machine gun... Just said the wrong firearm for ♥♥♥♥ sake.

Using the trader is not a fix to a flawed skill system.

The skill system isn't even that flawed. The book way of increasing things was implemented to slow progression down, because before it was done this way, you could cheese to the endgame in under 2 hours, without even having all that much skill or know-how, just some creative thinking.

Once you got a wrench, you were instanting to level 60+, you immediately got all the skills you wanted, you killed every zed on the much more limited selection in one or two hits.

The new system works exactly as intended. It slows down progression and makes your growth feel more earned than just some inconvenience you can metarun through, to turn the game into a casual arcade zombie shooter game.