We need a new skill system, this 5 stat system needs to go. Suggestions?

[Scyris]

I'd say reduce it to 3 stats, a rough example is a Offense state which has all weapons in it, a survival stat, which has stuff like armor skills, cooking, medicine in it, and then a utility perk which has stuff like advanced engineer, grease monkey, miner 69'er and mother load in it.

I personally hate the current stat system and feel its garbage due to how badly it limits a single player game. Like I always go str builds not because I like it, but because it has miner 69'er and high block damage makes poi exploration easier. I'd really rather use spears but can't really afford to early game due to how slow leveling is and how vital miner 69'er/master chef is for general quality of life. Plus having steel tools by day 3 is pretty nice, even if you only find 1 part to make a pickaxe.

Best would be to go back to a16.4 and have it work with the current learn by reading system. Wanna get better at a weapon? use it, the action skill say club, effects what levels of pummel pete etc you can get and headshot damage etc, while the magazines still control the quality and what you can craft. It'd be a far better system than the game has now. The skill system change was honestly one of my most hated changes, and most players who played alpha 16.4 tend to agree on this.

I mostly dislike the fact weapons are seperated by stats. Especially in a22 aka 1.0 where zombies have grossly inflated health meanwhile weapons have not been buffed any to compensate for the higher hp. The devs need to play on at least Nomad when balancing not adventurer. as Adventurer gives a magical bonus to player damage delt, and makes zombies magically do less damage. Not sure on exact numbers. Default difficulty also needs to be put back on nomad.

[Mithrandir]

We may discuss that again for as long as we want, but that ship has sailed long ago when we're at a week from V1.0 official stable...

Now about some of your points, the stats aren't mutually exclusive. You talk like if you need STR you can't get spears. It's easy to get 3 in many stats. As long as you don't focus on maxing it. Steel tools on day 3 is superfluous, workstations are way more important.

If it's another "I want LBD back" rant, sorry, I'll pass. LBD for crafting was a PITA. I could like it for perks stats, but absolutely not for crafting as making 50 stone axes for each quality level was just a huge boring pain.

And for balance between weapon damage and zed hp, most vets here will tell you that weapons are (still) hugely OP vs zeds.

[T-82]

Well, from what I see. Your problem is:
- I want steel tools by day 3.
I play solo, and its perfectly viable to play without strenght perks maxed out.
Is it taking longer to mine and cook? Yes, however You can spend points somewhere else You like that way.
My latest solo play is mainly going for dex/perc. What You want is basically: I want to do everything and not be inconvinced.
No game has that way of thinking, except minecraft. Just google some cheats or something.

[Scyris]

Originally posted by T-82:

Well, from what I see. Your problem is:
- I want steel tools by day 3.
I play solo, and its perfectly viable to play without strenght perks maxed out.
Is it taking longer to mine and cook? Yes, however You can spend points somewhere else You like that way.
My latest solo play is mainly going for dex/perc. What You want is basically: I want to do everything and not be inconvinced.
No game has that way of thinking, except minecraft. Just google some cheats or something.

oh I don't need steel tools by day 3, I just usually have them by then without trying. Iron tools with decent miner 69'er perks also does pretty short work of most things.

[Scyris]

Originally posted by Mithrandir:

We may discuss that again for as long as we want, but that ship has sailed long ago when we're at a week from V1.0 official stable...

Now about some of your points, the stats aren't mutually exclusive. You talk like if you need STR you can't get spears. It's easy to get 3 in many stats. As long as you don't focus on maxing it. Steel tools on day 3 is superfluous, workstations are way more important.

If it's another "I want LBD back" rant, sorry, I'll pass. LBD for crafting was a PITA. I could like it for perks stats, but absolutely not for crafting as making 50 stone axes for each quality level was just a huge boring pain.

And for balance between weapon damage and zed hp, most vets here will tell you that weapons are (still) hugely OP vs zeds.

Try reading what I posted again, I never said to have learn by doing for crafting, I actually want to avoid that, also that was only in a15. not a16.4.

[T-82]

Then why the long post?
It's not imaginable to be good at everything.

[Mithrandir]

Originally posted by Scyris:

Originally posted by Mithrandir:

We may discuss that again for as long as we want, but that ship has sailed long ago when we're at a week from V1.0 official stable...

Now about some of your points, the stats aren't mutually exclusive. You talk like if you need STR you can't get spears. It's easy to get 3 in many stats. As long as you don't focus on maxing it. Steel tools on day 3 is superfluous, workstations are way more important.

If it's another "I want LBD back" rant, sorry, I'll pass. LBD for crafting was a PITA. I could like it for perks stats, but absolutely not for crafting as making 50 stone axes for each quality level was just a huge boring pain.

And for balance between weapon damage and zed hp, most vets here will tell you that weapons are (still) hugely OP vs zeds.

Try reading what I posted again, I never said to have learn by doing for crafting, I actually want to avoid that, also that was only in a15. not a16.4.

As I said, I could like it to get better at using weapons and certainly not for crafting. If it's what you wanted (I don't remember when they ditched LBD for crafting exactly) then I would have no problem with it. But as I said right at the beginning : that ship has sailed.

[projectmayhem]

https://www.nexusmods.com/7daystodie/mods/5333


I've been working on this, it gets rid of the stats and replaces them with Combat, Gathering, Survival, Crafting, and Fencing. I combined all the weapons into 1 perk. I've increased some perks that only had 3-4 ranks up to 5, still working on others. The screenshots are a little outdated, I'll fix them on my next upload.

Its still a WIP so any feedback is always helpful. Perks you think should move, suggestions for new perks or new skill trees.

[ElDudorino]

That ship has sailed? Let's not act like completely replacing a system for another one right before "launch" isn't exactly TFP's style.

[Spider]

Originally posted by Scyris:

I'd say reduce it to 3 stats, a rough example is a Offense state which has all weapons in it, a survival stat, which has stuff like armor skills, cooking, medicine in it, and then a utility perk which has stuff like advanced engineer, grease monkey, miner 69'er and mother load in it.

I personally hate the current stat system and feel its garbage due to how badly it limits a single player game. Like I always go str builds not because I like it, but because it has miner 69'er and high block damage makes poi exploration easier. I'd really rather use spears but can't really afford to early game due to how slow leveling is and how vital miner 69'er/master chef is for general quality of life. Plus having steel tools by day 3 is pretty nice, even if you only find 1 part to make a pickaxe.

Best would be to go back to a16.4 and have it work with the current learn by reading system. Wanna get better at a weapon? use it, the action skill say club, effects what levels of pummel pete etc you can get and headshot damage etc, while the magazines still control the quality and what you can craft. It'd be a far better system than the game has now. The skill system change was honestly one of my most hated changes, and most players who played alpha 16.4 tend to agree on this.

I mostly dislike the fact weapons are seperated by stats. Especially in a22 aka 1.0 where zombies have grossly inflated health meanwhile weapons have not been buffed any to compensate for the higher hp. The devs need to play on at least Nomad when balancing not adventurer. as Adventurer gives a magical bonus to player damage delt, and makes zombies magically do less damage. Not sure on exact numbers. Default difficulty also needs to be put back on nomad.

So you want to make the game even more simple than it already is? No wonder this is a barney mode survival game now.

[Scyris]

Originally posted by Spider:

Originally posted by Scyris:

I'd say reduce it to 3 stats, a rough example is a Offense state which has all weapons in it, a survival stat, which has stuff like armor skills, cooking, medicine in it, and then a utility perk which has stuff like advanced engineer, grease monkey, miner 69'er and mother load in it.

I personally hate the current stat system and feel its garbage due to how badly it limits a single player game. Like I always go str builds not because I like it, but because it has miner 69'er and high block damage makes poi exploration easier. I'd really rather use spears but can't really afford to early game due to how slow leveling is and how vital miner 69'er/master chef is for general quality of life. Plus having steel tools by day 3 is pretty nice, even if you only find 1 part to make a pickaxe.

Best would be to go back to a16.4 and have it work with the current learn by reading system. Wanna get better at a weapon? use it, the action skill say club, effects what levels of pummel pete etc you can get and headshot damage etc, while the magazines still control the quality and what you can craft. It'd be a far better system than the game has now. The skill system change was honestly one of my most hated changes, and most players who played alpha 16.4 tend to agree on this.

I mostly dislike the fact weapons are seperated by stats. Especially in a22 aka 1.0 where zombies have grossly inflated health meanwhile weapons have not been buffed any to compensate for the higher hp. The devs need to play on at least Nomad when balancing not adventurer. as Adventurer gives a magical bonus to player damage delt, and makes zombies magically do less damage. Not sure on exact numbers. Default difficulty also needs to be put back on nomad.

So you want to make the game even more simple than it already is? No wonder this is a barney mode survival game now.

I mean its always barely been a survival game for how easy food/water has been, even in alpha 10.2 when I started I never ever had food or water problems. Its not like that has changed any.

[MoistGamer]

Originally posted by ElDudorino:

That ship has sailed? Let's not act like completely replacing a system for another one right before "launch" isn't exactly TFP's style.

"We believe it's worth the price increase."

[Spider]

Originally posted by MoistGamer:

Originally posted by ElDudorino:

That ship has sailed? Let's not act like completely replacing a system for another one right before "launch" isn't exactly TFP's style.

"We believe it's worth the price increase."

That's an A1 quote sir. They aren't going to get a ton more PC sales, so the price "increase" is relatively pointless. Console user cash grab at the expense of gameplay, complexity, and the faith of long time consumers. Me not spending a single penny further with TFP doesn't matter, though. Plenty of naive fools to make up for my money.

[Scyris]

Originally posted by MoistGamer:

Originally posted by ElDudorino:

That ship has sailed? Let's not act like completely replacing a system for another one right before "launch" isn't exactly TFP's style.

"We believe it's worth the price increase."

Erm? what that they gutted the armor system? overhaul vehicle looks which wasn't needed anyway as they looked fine, and made the game look worse due to poor lighting? Not ot mention turned it into a chore to play since they seem to wanna make it as tedious as possible. I mean hell they even have something in to artifically drag out your trader quest progression now with daily limits on how many quests count, its just stupidity at this point. Like are they that desperate to make it take as long as possible for console players to realize the game has like 0 actual content? Like thats the only reason I see for why they made most of the v1.0 changes.

As i've always said: Consoles ruin everything. Once a pc only game ends up deciding to come out on console the game gets ruined as it gets dumbed down for console users, or gets made more tedious in 7dtd's case so they don't realize how the game has no actual content too fast.

[Spider]

Originally posted by Scyris:

Originally posted by MoistGamer:

"We believe it's worth the price increase."

Erm? what that they gutted the armor system? overhaul vehicle looks which wasn't needed anyway as they looked fine, and made the game look worse due to poor lighting? Not ot mention turned it into a chore to play since they seem to wanna make it as tedious as possible. I mean hell they even have something in to artifically drag out your trader quest progression now with daily limits on how many quests count, its just stupidity at this point. Like are they that desperate to make it take as long as possible for console players to realize the game has like 0 actual content? Like thats the only reason I see for why they made most of the v1.0 changes.

As i've always said: Consoles ruin everything. Once a pc only game ends up deciding to come out on console the game gets ruined as it gets dumbed down for console users, or gets made more tedious in 7dtd's case so they don't realize how the game has no actual content too fast.

They should have developed it for console and then ported it. Then it would have an excuse to be dumbed down and ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[Scyris]

Originally posted by Spider:

Originally posted by MoistGamer:

"We believe it's worth the price increase."

That's an A1 quote sir. They aren't going to get a ton more PC sales, so the price "increase" is relatively pointless. Console user cash grab at the expense of gameplay, complexity, and the faith of long time consumers. Me not spending a single penny further with TFP doesn't matter, though. Plenty of naive fools to make up for my money.

yeah I am going to be very hesitant about touching any game by TFP again as the devs clearly have no clue what players want or anything like that. This used to be my fave game, but after a16.4 in a17 and above its just been going downhill more and more each update, and I don't think without mods it'll ever be as good as it was in a16.4 again.