Tier 7, Tier 8 and Tier 9 quality for items needed

[Dester]

I'm playing with Warrior difficulty, default settings and no mods. I usually play Survivalist setting, but game was started with relatives who prefer Warrior difficulty.

Day 22 and I can already make all the best armor types in the game... and I only had 2 points placed into the medium armor skill, so it's not like this was a focus by any stretch.

While I can adjust loot settings for delaying some progress it seems broken for the DEFAULT SETTINGS of the game to be providing the absolute best armor by day 22. I'm quite certain with some practice I could even acquire the best armor even faster.

Hopefully we see at least another 3 tiers of item quality added into the game. The best quality items should only be found otherwise it greatly weakens the reason to go exploring the map.

[Pain Weasel]

Why bother?

With quality 6 items, even on Insane, there isn't much of a challenge. Why add 3 more quality levels, presumably with better stats and higher damage when the quality we have now are more than enough?

Also, the points you put into Medium Armor had nothing to do with maxing out the armor crafting skill. The drop rate for armor magazines is now influenced by your attributes, all of them, not the skills. So if you had a 8 STR and an 8 END (or whatever) you had a significant bonus to loot chance.

[Dester]

Originally posted by Pain Weasel:

Why bother?

With quality 6 items, even on Insane, there isn't much of a challenge. Why add 3 more quality levels, presumably with better stats and higher damage when the quality we have now are more than enough?

Also, the points you put into Medium Armor had nothing to do with maxing out the armor crafting skill. The drop rate for armor magazines is now influenced by your attributes, all of them, not the skills. So if you had a 8 STR and an 8 END (or whatever) you had a significant bonus to loot chance.

Your mixing the overpowered buffs from armored sets verses the issue of having maxed out gear by day 22. While there's clearly an issue with armor gear being overpowered that is a completely separate issue to having the absolute best armor or other items so early in the game.

[Doctor3D]

I think for my next playthrough I'm going to turn the XP rate down to like 25% or maybe even less. I nearly maxed out my character way too quickly. ( I play warrior too - survivalist on some alphas but they get a bit too bullet spongy lately for that setting for me )

[Yarblatt]

But, this one goes to... 11.

[Pain Weasel]

Originally posted by Dester:

Originally posted by Pain Weasel:

Why bother?

With quality 6 items, even on Insane, there isn't much of a challenge. Why add 3 more quality levels, presumably with better stats and higher damage when the quality we have now are more than enough?

Also, the points you put into Medium Armor had nothing to do with maxing out the armor crafting skill. The drop rate for armor magazines is now influenced by your attributes, all of them, not the skills. So if you had a 8 STR and an 8 END (or whatever) you had a significant bonus to loot chance.

Your mixing the overpowered buffs from armored sets verses the issue of having maxed out gear by day 22. While there's clearly an issue with armor gear being overpowered that is a completely separate issue to having the absolute best armor or other items so early in the game.

No, I'm not. I'm not talking about just armor.

We can have top tier quality 6 weapons and tools by Day 20 as well. Augers, M60s, whatever. This has nothing to do with the armor bonuses specifically, just about how easy it is to jump ahead and how OP top tier gear is.

Progression is way to short right now, but the solution at least to me, is not to add more quality levels but to slow down the pace at which we can get those items possibly putting in hard caps (maybe based on the day?) below which we cannot find certain items regardless of perks, buffs or bonuses.

[Doctor3D]

It feels very unbalanced - I hate to say it. Sometimes I hesitate too because some of it is just based on luck and RNG. It feels particularly out of whack across the board to me though. It really does. I'm disappointed they think this is '1.0' balance.

*Edit - Is Gazz still around? He was the one working on balance last I knew and was making steady progress. I haven't seen him lately?

[Pain Weasel]

My prediction is a nerf on the armor magazines incoming. I think the devs wanted us to be able to try it out, so they jacked up the loot prob bonuses we get from attributes.

Right now we get half the bonus per attribute point that we get for other magazines per skill point. The issue is we start the game with 5 attributes points since each starts at level 1 (and we get a bonus for that), rather than skills that start at level 0 so we start with a significant bonus. Plus instead of skills that only have 4 or 5 levels max our attributes go up to 10. If you spread your skill points around in multiple attributes you'll have massive bonuses very quickly.

They either really didn't think that through, or they did it intentionally so we can all play with the new armor sets.

[onanonehand8]

Why? what would be different? 45 minutes to smack down a radiated feral? The crystal ball I bought turned out to be a juice bottle, so I have no talent for knowing the future, but I don't believe this game will have any kind of giant end game boss.

[JimmyIowa]

I completely agree the progression is a bit fast in some ways. But not sure I see the point in adding item tiers just to have bigger numbers. A tier 6 pick already one shots most things you want to mine. And a tier 6 shovel already one shots diggable blocks. Tier 6 driver one shots most harvestable things other than cars. Tier 6 guns make insane difficulty a breeze.

[Seftak]

Why stop there. Why not have items tied to your levels like in WoW. So we could have 300 tiers of every equipment!

[Dester]

Originally posted by Pain Weasel:

Originally posted by Dester:

Your mixing the overpowered buffs from armored sets verses the issue of having maxed out gear by day 22. While there's clearly an issue with armor gear being overpowered that is a completely separate issue to having the absolute best armor or other items so early in the game.

No, I'm not. I'm not talking about just armor.

We can have top tier quality 6 weapons and tools by Day 20 as well. Augers, M60s, whatever. This has nothing to do with the armor bonuses specifically, just about how easy it is to jump ahead and how OP top tier gear is.

Progression is way to short right now, but the solution at least to me, is not to add more quality levels but to slow down the pace at which we can get those items possibly putting in hard caps (maybe based on the day?) below which we cannot find certain items regardless of perks, buffs or bonuses.

Yes, top gear is overpowered and in regards to weapons the game needs better late game enemies to match. Currently the game only has Mid-game enemies which is the C4 exploding zombie and green zombies. Why these developers can only design 6 levels of evolution for items while having no real late game threats is quite sad for 2024.
For top gear tools additional block damage is not needed... the additional tiers can provide other benefits ranging from locating veins for mining, structural collapse warning, reduced sound, etc., etc., depending on the type of tool.

Why on earth we are stuck with only 6 levels of quality when it's 2024 is baffling... but equally baffling is only 30-something zombie types when many share the same sounds and actions.

[Doctor3D]

The 'late game' enemies might be the bandits that they have yet to incorporate into a game that they've spent years 'balancing' without one of the core enemy types. Should be fine.

[Dester]

Originally posted by onanonehand8:

Why? what would be different? 45 minutes to smack down a radiated feral? The crystal ball I bought turned out to be a juice bottle, so I have no talent for knowing the future, but I don't believe this game will have any kind of giant end game boss.

I would hope any late game threats would not simply be a zombie with more hitpoints. Any late game threats should have a variety of different skills\talents ranging from camouflage, 10_square knockback hits, eating other zombies for increased life, some body parts deflecting bullets, piercing roar which temporarily deafens the player, etc, etc.,

The game definitely needs late game enemies, but I doubt we will receive any from the developers... at least we have options from modders.

[Tahnval]

I think that balancing the game for players with thousands of hours of experience who optimise their playstyle isn't a good idea for a game.

After hundreds or thousands of hours of experience it's easy to forget how hard 7DTD seems when you start playing.

[Dester]

Originally posted by Tahnval:

I think that balancing the game for players with thousands of hours of experience who optimise their playstyle isn't a good idea for a game.

After hundreds or thousands of hours of experience it's easy to forget how hard 7DTD seems when you start playing.

My suggestion only adds additional quality items to the game... it does not reduce existing quality.... thus your concern is not valid.