Learn By Reading plus 1.0 loot/quest changes

[delerium76]

So my initial experience with the 1.0 update has me a bit frustrated. The learn by reading method was manageable back when you could still get decent gear/tools/weapons from quests or from loot, but with the current change, it's very easy to back yourself into a corner with the book weighting.

My current game I'm on day 4, and have yet to see any tool books because the weights are so strong towards the first few books I've read. So are we expected to just not use any books until we get a few of each skill you want to work on? I'm not really enjoying the balance of being stuck with a stone axe forever because I can't ever craft anything better, and I never find anything better.

[Roland]

Putting one point into Miner69 just makes good sense for the bit of boost it gives to block damage. But it will also help the harvest tool book appear a bit more often as well. Also check trader stocks at every inventory change because that book is a pretty common one they sell. Remember also that iron tools suck stamina a lot faster than stone tools so you don't want to graduate to iron tools until you've leveled up some and have plenty of coffee to support their use.

[Shurenai]

How many you've read of a magazine has no impact on how many you find of that book. What Skills you spend points in, however, does. If you Haven't put any points in Miner 69er, but Have put points in several other skills like a melee and ranged weapon, an armor skill, etc, Then you're not likely to find many of the tool magazines.

[Xandor]

I am not sure how it works but I think drop rate is highly affected by skills. If you spec into miner 69er you get more books for tools.
I think increasing any main stat increases armor books (I got to 100 in armor crafting when I had like 20 in other crafting skills).

I think that is how it works but not sure. I have seen someone say they got to iron 6 tools by day 12 and someone else say they was more around 18 or something. I think I got there by day 20-25 but that was with only 0-1 point in miner 69er.

I think there are some other ways to get it really early also (took quick peak at streamers and I think several had really good tools when I looked and that it was like day 6 or less). It might be related to going into the harder biomes early since it drastically increases loot stage.

I think you want ~3 points into miner 69er. 3 points only requires 3 str, you can get it from gear although I feel like it can be worth putting points into it yourself since the bonus is only active when wearing the gear.
I think you need 2 points into miner 69er in order to make iron tools "usable" without drinking something for stamina regen.

[delerium76]

Originally posted by Roland:

Putting one point into Miner69 just makes good sense for the bit of boost it gives to block damage. But it will also help the harvest tool book appear a bit more often as well. Also check trader stocks at every inventory change because that book is a pretty common one they sell. Remember also that iron tools suck stamina a lot faster than stone tools so you don't want to graduate to iron tools until you've leveled up some and have plenty of coffee to support their use.

oh I didn't know that. that's a good tip. Here I thought it was dependent on the books you've read, but that's a much better system to give books based on the skills you've invested in. That helps a lot guys. thanks!

[Ratigan]

don't worry man, they'll reinvent the wheel again & again & at some point are bound to return to learn by crafting lmao

[Cthulhuisalone]

7D2D has really leaned into the RPG element of the game, for my friends and myself a clear plan for what skills we prioritize and the rng is much kinder for the books we find, (I've done this single player also with a clear build and plan it takes longer but still worthwhile)

[Gabraham]

Originally posted by Xandor:

I am not sure how it works but I think drop rate is highly affected by skills. If you spec into miner 69er you get more books for tools.
I think increasing any main stat increases armor books (I got to 100 in armor crafting when I had like 20 in other crafting skills).

If that is how it works, it's good to know we have a way to affecting it but that still unintuitive and backasswards. It's like being really efficient at cooking but not knowing any recipes, or having a skill to build vehicles with less parts but not knowing how to build any vehicle components or build one at all. I spec into something and then LATER I can actually use it?

[delerium76]

Originally posted by Gabraham:

Originally posted by Xandor:

I am not sure how it works but I think drop rate is highly affected by skills. If you spec into miner 69er you get more books for tools.
I think increasing any main stat increases armor books (I got to 100 in armor crafting when I had like 20 in other crafting skills).

If that is how it works, it's good to know we have a way to affecting it but that still unintuitive and backasswards. It's like being really efficient at cooking but not knowing any recipes, or having a skill to build vehicles with less parts but not knowing how to build any vehicle components or build one at all. I spec into something and then LATER I can actually use it?

I agree that it's strange, but I remember a time when we relied on books to even be able to craft a forge or workbench, so you were completely at the mercy of RNG which sucked. At least this way we can put a point in advanced engineering, which gives us more chance for workstation books which gives us the recipes.

I think of it like this: When you train your first point in advanced engineering, you become an apprentice engineer (according to the title). An apprentice engineer might not know how to make a forge, but it shows his willingness to learn more about that topic, so when he's out looting, he's actively looking for engineering books, but probably not paying so much attention to books about gardening (seeds). This makes him spot the engineering books easier, while he may not notice the gardening book also in the rubble. But his friend may really be into gardening, and spot that gardening book. Both of them are eager to learn their trade, but generally don't know much to start.

Also, I can relate to this somewhat in real life. I enjoy cooking, but I'm not nearly a chef. I know how to prep. I can make some basic dishes, some basic starters like a roux and bechamel, basically I have a few tricks up my sleeve. I may know enough to know what ingredients are in a dish which I attribute to having those basics in "master chef" but still not really know how to make it, because HOW you make the dish is sometimes more important than just knowing what goes into it. Knowing how those ingredients are first prepped, what order to combine them in, the method used to cook it and at what temperature, all of those things are what makes a dish. Like, taco bell uses the same 5-6 ingredients but combines them in different ways to make a bunch of menu items.

TL/DR Spending points in a skill shows what you are interested in. The basic perks of a skill gets you started down that profession and shows general growth at how well you do your job, and the books are like the "experience" you gain at being able to make stuff in that profession.

Anyway, that's my take on it.

[toneybharper]

I hate the new book dynamic. just take me back to alpha 19.

[Nerevar]

funny fact : if you want forge books do NOT put points into adv eng. as you actually raise the odds for 3 different book types by doing so. while oddly if you level up LOCKPICKING you only raise the odds for forge ahead books. dont ask me why. but its the case.

that beeing said these books stop beeing useful at 50 already.

why? youll get a crucible either from a trader by buying it or by finishing the challenges for one long before you ever get to 75 to craft it yourself.

meanwhile if you put just like 3 points into miner 69er youll get FLOODED by tool magazines everywhere.

i always go for my melee weapon of choice first with perks therefore.

since a21 thats mostly spears now. spear is just too goated. stun baton is only really better weapon now but the early game with int just sucks and you need to branch out for guns anyway. strength is always good up to 5 since shotguns are shotguns still.

with the new str mods for helmets tough i never go above 5 str anymore. with the 2 helmet mods you get 7 str and max miner and motherlode and shotguns to 4. really good investment of perks for later on.

but early game i find perception alot more useful nowadays.

[delerium76]

Originally posted by Nerevar:

funny fact : if you want forge books do NOT put points into adv eng. as you actually raise the odds for 3 different book types by doing so. while oddly if you level up LOCKPICKING you only raise the odds for forge ahead books. dont ask me why. but its the case.

that beeing said these books stop beeing useful at 50 already.

why? youll get a crucible either from a trader by buying it or by finishing the challenges for one long before you ever get to 75 to craft it yourself.

meanwhile if you put just like 3 points into miner 69er youll get FLOODED by tool magazines everywhere.

i always go for my melee weapon of choice first with perks therefore.

since a21 thats mostly spears now. spear is just too goated. stun baton is only really better weapon now but the early game with int just sucks and you need to branch out for guns anyway. strength is always good up to 5 since shotguns are shotguns still.

with the new str mods for helmets tough i never go above 5 str anymore. with the 2 helmet mods you get 7 str and max miner and motherlode and shotguns to 4. really good investment of perks for later on.

but early game i find perception alot more useful nowadays.

I mean, sure, if you want to play the same character every single time you play, I guess you can min/max like this, but I like to try new things. Also, by the time you get to 50 in workstation, you can afford to respec and just remove the points from advanced engineering or lockpicking.

But you did bring up a pretty big flaw of the current system, and that is, if you want the benefits of the lockpicking skill, it's going to flood you with workstation books. I like the idea of being able to effect which type of books I get from loot, but having it attached to skills may not be the best solution since some of the books don't line up well with the skills you put points in.

[delerium76]

Originally posted by delerium76:

Originally posted by Nerevar:

funny fact : if you want forge books do NOT put points into adv eng. as you actually raise the odds for 3 different book types by doing so. while oddly if you level up LOCKPICKING you only raise the odds for forge ahead books. dont ask me why. but its the case.

that beeing said these books stop beeing useful at 50 already.

why? youll get a crucible either from a trader by buying it or by finishing the challenges for one long before you ever get to 75 to craft it yourself.

meanwhile if you put just like 3 points into miner 69er youll get FLOODED by tool magazines everywhere.

i always go for my melee weapon of choice first with perks therefore.

since a21 thats mostly spears now. spear is just too goated. stun baton is only really better weapon now but the early game with int just sucks and you need to branch out for guns anyway. strength is always good up to 5 since shotguns are shotguns still.

with the new str mods for helmets tough i never go above 5 str anymore. with the 2 helmet mods you get 7 str and max miner and motherlode and shotguns to 4. really good investment of perks for later on.

but early game i find perception alot more useful nowadays.

I mean, sure, if you want to play the same character every single time you play, I guess you can min/max like this, but I like to try new things. Also, by the time you get to 50 in workstation, you can afford to respec and just remove the points from advanced engineering or lockpicking.

But you did bring up a pretty big flaw of the current system, and that is, if you want the benefits of the lockpicking skill, it's going to flood you with workstation books. I like the idea of being able to effect which type of books I get from loot, but having it attached to skills may not be the best solution since some of the books don't line up well with the skills you put points in.

That's so funny. The new patch addressed this very thing. I doubt they read this, so it had to be so random.

As per the new patch notes:

Forge Ahead magazine loot boost from Lock Picking perk is now capped at level 15 of workstation crafting

[Undefined]

Who could've predicted that nerfing the trader would exasperate the issues with the RnG magazine system.

😐