Why do we miss the blunderbuss?

[comet_65cali]

I mean I remember rolling 3-4 'Busses deep on my hot-bar during A19.

Thinking about it, was it the fact that ammo was dirt cheap and available to make without the workbench.
Also man the reload was alright, way better than the Shotty. ESPECIALLY if you know about the Richardson Shotguns.

I don't remember HATING having the blunderbuss as our beginning powder-firearm. IT was a joy to have a high-level blunderbusses cause that multi-hotbar strat worked, and worked well.

What are your thoughts? Is it the Cheap Ammo? The fast reload?

[MoistGamer]

Originally posted by comet_65cali:

I mean I remember rolling 3-4 'Busses deep on my hot-bar during A19.

Thinking about it, was it the fact that ammo was dirt cheap and available to make without the workbench.
Also man the reload was alright, way better than the Shotty. ESPECIALLY if you know about the Richardson Shotguns.

I don't remember HATING having the blunderbuss as our beginning powder-firearm. IT was a joy to have a high-level blunderbusses cause that multi-hotbar strat worked, and worked well.

What are your thoughts? Is it the Cheap Ammo? The fast reload?

Ha! I did that too, the 3-4 deep on the hotbar. 1, FIRE! 2, FIRE!, 3 FIRE!

You could get 10 blasts uninterrupted. Fantastic. Pipe weapons suck ass. Opinion, not fact. But I hate them, never use em, no thanks. You get an iron sledgie at the same time. Pipes pointless.

[Mithrandir]

I respect those who loved the thing. More choices is better than less IMO.

I despised it tho, it couldn't even reliably kill a single dog with a 1 meter shot in the face at my diff level. Oh how I cursed the thing... And oh how I love the replacing pipe machine gun instead... (still despise the pipe shotgun tho).

I don't know why they removed it btw, but between the pipe guns and the blunderthing, my vote is clearly for the pipe guns.

And yes, the easy ammo crafting was it's only good feature for me, but it wasn't enough.

[comet_65cali]

Originally posted by Mithrandir:

I respect those who loved the thing. More choices is better than less IMO.

I despised it tho, it couldn't even reliably kill a single dog with a 1 meter shot in the face at my diff level. Oh how I cursed the thing... And oh how I love the replacing pipe machine gun instead... (still despise the pipe shotgun tho).

I don't know why they removed it btw, but between the pipe guns and the blunderthing, my vote is clearly for the pipe guns.

And yes, the easy ammo crafting was it's only good feature for me, but it wasn't enough.

I don't think the other pipe-firearms are bad. 3: Rifle, 2: Pistol and lets be honest, the GOAT, 1: Pipe-Machine Gun which is WAY too cheap to make and taking down any zombie dogs. Its the first gun you make and only use it in emergencies.

[SylenThunder]

Originally posted by comet_65cali:

I mean I remember rolling 3-4 'Busses deep on my hot-bar during A19.

Thinking about it, was it the fact that ammo was dirt cheap and available to make without the workbench.
Also man the reload was alright, way better than the Shotty. ESPECIALLY if you know about the Richardson Shotguns.

I don't remember HATING having the blunderbuss as our beginning powder-firearm. IT was a joy to have a high-level blunderbusses cause that multi-hotbar strat worked, and worked well.

What are your thoughts? Is it the Cheap Ammo? The fast reload?

IMHO the only real difference between the blunderbuss and the current pipe shotty is the aesthetics and ammunition.

Personally the aesthetics don't really fit the game. The pipe shotty fits in a lot better, and is nearly as easy to make. The ammo is the only real shortfall here. Early game I'll load up a few pipe shotties as soon as I have some slugs to load them with.

And it isn't just the pipe shotgun either. Now instead of just one simple early game blaster, there is one for each class now. And they make use of the ammo you are already finding in loot even when you aren't finding the higher tier weapons. From a game balance perspective, the new lineup of pipe weapons works out better for the players than a single rudimentary blaster.

[MoistGamer]

Originally posted by SylenThunder:

Personally the aesthetics don't really fit the game.

As a blunderbuss over pipe weapons person, I confess this is absolutely true lmao. The pipes do fit the game more from a visual standpoint.

Definitely felt like a Barbary pirate rather than a survivor in 20XX. Having said that, there's also a wooden crossbow and battle ax that both look fairly medieval.

[Shurenai]

Originally posted by SylenThunder:

Originally posted by comet_65cali:

I mean I remember rolling 3-4 'Busses deep on my hot-bar during A19.

Thinking about it, was it the fact that ammo was dirt cheap and available to make without the workbench.
Also man the reload was alright, way better than the Shotty. ESPECIALLY if you know about the Richardson Shotguns.

I don't remember HATING having the blunderbuss as our beginning powder-firearm. IT was a joy to have a high-level blunderbusses cause that multi-hotbar strat worked, and worked well.

What are your thoughts? Is it the Cheap Ammo? The fast reload?

IMHO the only real difference between the blunderbuss and the current pipe shotty is the aesthetics and ammunition.

Personally the aesthetics don't really fit the game. The pipe shotty fits in a lot better, and is nearly as easy to make. The ammo is the only real shortfall here. Early game I'll load up a few pipe shotties as soon as I have some slugs to load them with.

And it isn't just the pipe shotgun either. Now instead of just one simple early game blaster, there is one for each class now. And they make use of the ammo you are already finding in loot even when you aren't finding the higher tier weapons. From a game balance perspective, the new lineup of pipe weapons works out better for the players than a single rudimentary blaster.

Yeah, Aside from the appearance and being able to craft the ammo earlier, the blunderbuss and pipe shotgun are identical- the stats literally got copypasted from blunder to pipe shottie iirc.

And that shortfall in no longer being able to craft ammo is at least partially made up for by the general dearth of ammo to be found when looting now

[comet_65cali]

Originally posted by SylenThunder:

Originally posted by comet_65cali:

I mean I remember rolling 3-4 'Busses deep on my hot-bar during A19.

Thinking about it, was it the fact that ammo was dirt cheap and available to make without the workbench.
Also man the reload was alright, way better than the Shotty. ESPECIALLY if you know about the Richardson Shotguns.

I don't remember HATING having the blunderbuss as our beginning powder-firearm. IT was a joy to have a high-level blunderbusses cause that multi-hotbar strat worked, and worked well.

What are your thoughts? Is it the Cheap Ammo? The fast reload?

IMHO the only real difference between the blunderbuss and the current pipe shotty is the aesthetics and ammunition.

Personally the aesthetics don't really fit the game. The pipe shotty fits in a lot better, and is nearly as easy to make. The ammo is the only real shortfall here. Early game I'll load up a few pipe shotties as soon as I have some slugs to load them with.

And it isn't just the pipe shotgun either. Now instead of just one simple early game blaster, there is one for each class now. And they make use of the ammo you are already finding in loot even when you aren't finding the higher tier weapons. From a game balance perspective, the new lineup of pipe weapons works out better for the players than a single rudimentary blaster.

I honestly think the pipe shotgun and the pipe rifle make the most sense in early game (a .44 makes more sense to because the casing rimmed lip.) but the reload on the rifle is compensated with its DPM. The Pipe shotgun, again demonstrated by a Richardson Industries Slamfire, is just two pipes, a nail, and a piece of wood that reloads WAY faster than the pipe shotgun kludge that we have in game.

[comet_65cali]

Originally posted by Shurenai:

Originally posted by SylenThunder:

IMHO the only real difference between the blunderbuss and the current pipe shotty is the aesthetics and ammunition.

Personally the aesthetics don't really fit the game. The pipe shotty fits in a lot better, and is nearly as easy to make. The ammo is the only real shortfall here. Early game I'll load up a few pipe shotties as soon as I have some slugs to load them with.

And it isn't just the pipe shotgun either. Now instead of just one simple early game blaster, there is one for each class now. And they make use of the ammo you are already finding in loot even when you aren't finding the higher tier weapons. From a game balance perspective, the new lineup of pipe weapons works out better for the players than a single rudimentary blaster.

Yeah, Aside from the appearance and being able to craft the ammo earlier, the blunderbuss and pipe shotgun are identical- the stats literally got copypasted from blunder to pipe shottie iirc.

And that shortfall in no longer being able to craft ammo is at least partially made up for by the general dearth of ammo to be found when looting now

Don't get me wrong Shurenai, I am not picking fights, its just this one deep thought as to why I don't consider a shotgun until I get a dubsey. And The fact why I wasn't this abrassive on the blunderbuss. I'm just trying to figure out the me in this equastion. And I think alot of other players may seem to feel the same way.

I've tried the brace of pipe shotties on the hotbar, but never felt the advantage. I think your information given to this thread is maybe the easy ammo was a defining factor why we liked the blunderbuss a bit more. That's some good info.

[DrLamp]

Originally posted by Shurenai:

Originally posted by SylenThunder:

IMHO the only real difference between the blunderbuss and the current pipe shotty is the aesthetics and ammunition.

Personally the aesthetics don't really fit the game. The pipe shotty fits in a lot better, and is nearly as easy to make. The ammo is the only real shortfall here. Early game I'll load up a few pipe shotties as soon as I have some slugs to load them with.

And it isn't just the pipe shotgun either. Now instead of just one simple early game blaster, there is one for each class now. And they make use of the ammo you are already finding in loot even when you aren't finding the higher tier weapons. From a game balance perspective, the new lineup of pipe weapons works out better for the players than a single rudimentary blaster.

Yeah, Aside from the appearance and being able to craft the ammo earlier, the blunderbuss and pipe shotgun are identical- the stats literally got copypasted from blunder to pipe shottie iirc.

And that shortfall in no longer being able to craft ammo is at least partially made up for by the general dearth of ammo to be found when looting now

I swear the pipe shotty feels slower to reload than the blunderbuss though. Is the reload speed identical? Can't be, can it?
Is it just me?

And yes about the ammo. Man...I love crafting my own stuff (even ammo), but by day 2-3 I'll have a stack or so of shells to use.

[Shurenai]

Originally posted by DrLamp:

Originally posted by Shurenai:

Yeah, Aside from the appearance and being able to craft the ammo earlier, the blunderbuss and pipe shotgun are identical- the stats literally got copypasted from blunder to pipe shottie iirc.

And that shortfall in no longer being able to craft ammo is at least partially made up for by the general dearth of ammo to be found when looting now

I swear the pipe shotty feels slower to reload than the blunderbuss though. Is the reload speed identical? Can't be, can it?
Is it just me?

And yes about the ammo. Man...I love crafting my own stuff (even ammo), but by day 2-3 I'll have a stack or so of shells to use.

A21.current, Pipe Shotgun:
=XML reload time=
<property name="Reload_time" value="2.6"/>
=Ingame stats=
Damage/pellet 8.1
Pellets: 10
Mag size: 1
Effective range 4
Max Durability 100

A16.4-A19.6 Blunderbuss:
=XML reload time=
<property name="Reload_time" value="3.9"/>
=Ingame stats:=
Damage/pellet 9(I believe this is rounded up, as in A19.6 damage stats didn't list decimals)
Pellets 10
Mag Size 1
Efective range 5
MaxDurability 50

So the damage, pellet count, mag size were direct copies, the pipe shottie lost 1m efective range but gained 2x durability; Values listed are at Q1, the blunderbuss at Q6 tops out at 100 durability, Q6 pipe tops out at 200.


That said, Despite the listed reload time of the pipe shotgun in the xml being 2.6, which is under the 3.9 of the blunderbuss, the blunderbuss does properly reload at about 3.9s reload time; But the pipe shotgun seems to take about twice as long as it's listed reload time in the xml would suggest- Putting it at about 5.2 seconds, instead of 2.6.

So... You're not crazy, Despite the pipe shotgun seeming to be meant to reload about 33% faster than the blunderbuss, it instead reloads a about 1.3 seconds slower. Ish. And I'm not sure why that is the case; Perhaps it's a bug, or there's something else in the xml files somewhere that I'm unaware of that affects it?

[DrLamp]

Wow, thanks for doing the homework. That is STRANGE about the reload time. I wonder if it has to do with the pipe shotty animation. I mean, xml SAYS it's supposed to be X, but you still have to wait for the animation to complete for the reload to register as complete...I don't know I'm just spit balling.

Hey, could you maybe pass this along as a bug report from your end? It will probably carry more weight coming from you.

[DrLamp]

I was just thinking...I wonder if whatever is causing the pipe shotgun to reload slowly is also doing the same thing to the pipe rifle. That thing reloads super slow, slower than it's intended to I'm willing to bet.

Don't go out of your way, but that just occurred to me.

[SylenThunder]

Originally posted by Shurenai:

But the pipe shotgun seems to take about twice as long as it's listed reload time in the xml would suggest- Putting it at about 5.2 seconds, instead of 2.6.

Should test it by trying to shoot at 3 seconds before the animation finishes. It may be that the animation sequence is not lined up with the reload.

[Shurenai]

Originally posted by SylenThunder:

Originally posted by Shurenai:

But the pipe shotgun seems to take about twice as long as it's listed reload time in the xml would suggest- Putting it at about 5.2 seconds, instead of 2.6.

Should test it by trying to shoot at 3 seconds before the animation finishes. It may be that the animation sequence is not lined up with the reload.

I'm pretty sure I tried that but loaded up to double check before answering; Answer is no, that doesn't do anything. Clicking once after 3 seconds, or spamming click the whole reload animation, it does not fire until the entire reload animation is complete.

The ammo count in the bottom right also doesn't update till the end either; stays 0 till the reload finishes, then changes to 1.. So it doesn't seem to be a case of the gun finishing it's reload 2.6s in then continuing the reload animation for 2.6s without being able to fire either.

Very weird.

Originally posted by DrLamp:

I was just thinking...I wonder if whatever is causing the pipe shotgun to reload slowly is also doing the same thing to the pipe rifle. That thing reloads super slow, slower than it's intended to I'm willing to bet.

Don't go out of your way, but that just occurred to me.

Since I loaded up to check Sylen's query, figured I'd check yours; XML for the pipe rifle is
<property name="Reload_time" value="2.66"/>
Testing it several times, it appears to take roughly 3.6-4~? seconds to reload? So that's also off- As with the shotgun though, it seems perfectly in sync with the reload animation.

For sake of comparison I checked the sniper rifle too, which lists 2.5 in the xml, and seems to reload in around 3-3.5~ seconds- but again, in line with the animation. I think you might be right on having to wait for the animation to finish before the reload does despite the xml indicating a different value.

Originally posted by DrLamp:

Hey, could you maybe pass this along as a bug report from your end? It will probably carry more weight coming from you.

I likely will when I have a minute.

At the very least, the tested reload rates definitely seem inconsistent with the listed xml reload times, for some reason.

[DrLamp]

Originally posted by SylenThunder:

Originally posted by Shurenai:

But the pipe shotgun seems to take about twice as long as it's listed reload time in the xml would suggest- Putting it at about 5.2 seconds, instead of 2.6.

Should test it by trying to shoot at 3 seconds before the animation finishes. It may be that the animation sequence is not lined up with the reload.

Okay, so i started a new save and gave myself a lvl 1 pipe shotty. No skills, no other gear. Pipe shotgun seems to take a hair over 5 seconds to reload, just like Shurenai said. I then loaded up an old save where I have boomstick 5 and gave myself a lvl 1 pipe shotty and reloaded, it took about 4 seconds. That seems to match up with the 33% faster reload from the skill.
I tried spamming to fire mid animation. No change, weapon would not fire until animation completed. I think the animation may be playing slower than intended.

Oh and I made sure I was not wearing my bandolier on my char with lvl 5 boomstick skill.

Oh, nm it seems you beat me to it.

Thanks for testing this stuff out. I would look in the XMLs, but I've never dived into the game files for fear of screwing something up. Sometimes those things can be as fragile as a soap bubble.