Last Minute Game Changes

[Dester]

Here's a list of my concerns regarding the 1.0 Official Release:

First I will say the graphic developers and animation developers are definitely hardworking and it's showing. Those developers are the only ones worthy of praise. Now for the list of unwanted changes:

1. Characters go from 5 armor slots and 3 clothing slots to only 4 armor slots. The game has been around 10 years and just before the official release a major change reducing visual clothing options. Everyone was enjoying what we've been using for many years and then our options get reduced.

2. Linear Traders for Biomes... no longer do we have unpredictable maps being generated. Every single map has the exact same traders for every biome over and over and over. I want the randomly generated maps, not predictable maps for every game.

3. Every gamer will need to be changing clothes multiple times a day for mining, salvaging, collecting loot, fighting zombies, etc., etc., . The bonuses are too important to ignore... or if you do ignore the bonuses then you're choosing to spend more time for less stuff. It's quite easy to determine if you'll like this feature... simply begin changing your clothes in real life 3 times every day then after a week share your thoughts.

4. Many duplicated bonuses on the new set armors. I have played many different types of games during the last 40 years and I have never seen such a shallow creation of set armors. Each piece of clothing from a set has only one bonus and most of these bonuses are often duplicated on others.


The game was so good and then during the last 13 months the developers completely change the game removing great stuff to gamble on major changes. It's like dating a wonderful lady for 8 years... you get engaged and during the last 2 years she decides to start taking heroin, shave her head, quit the job she loved, install multiple face piercings and switches to a bugs only food diet.

I've always done vanilla, but knowing what's arriving.... I pray the modders can fix these mistakes.

[Dave Davison III :)]

LOL

[crmarlow2874]

Originally posted by REEEbus:

LOL

+1

[Shurenai]

Just my two cents;
RE: 4, the duplicated set bonuses, they seem to be on different pieces of the armors; So if you really want that one specific bonus, you can get it on multiple pieces by forgoing the set bonus and just wearing the individual pieces from the sets that give the bonus you want.

IE: One set has Stamina Regen on hands, another has it on feet, a third has it on chest.

Re 3: Being a bonus, It means that the baseline is already the same- The time you're used to spending doing XYZ is going to be about the same, and you can get a bonus for it if you want. If you're a minmaxer who can't say no to those bonuses because it's "less efficient/less fast", be prepared, in general, in ANY game not just this one, to be optimizing the fun out of your gameplay and pigeonholing yourself into such dilemmas.. Just use the armor you wanna use, and don't stress so much about it.

Re 2: ONE aspect of the RWG is static; The order of traders. Many other things are still just as random. It's not as if having a static trader order to follow an intended progression locks every single other thing in and turns it into navezgane 2.0 where the entire save is exactly the same every time. And if you have any care at all for Bandits and a reasonably cohesive Story, this was an essentially necessary step

Re 1: People have been ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about the old out of date character model and clothes (and many aspects of them) for years. Devs finally update it, and now a new subset of users is coming out of the woodwork to ♥♥♥♥♥ about how they updated everything and how dare they. Going to full inhouse and decently good looking assets meant having to pare down how many options there are in both the character creation and clothing departments. This isn't something the devs will ever satisfy everyone on.

[Antearz]

Originally posted by Dester:

Here's a list of my concerns regarding the 1.0 Official Release:

First I will say the graphic developers and animation developers are definitely hardworking and it's showing. Those developers are the only ones worthy of praise. Now for the list of unwanted changes:

1. Characters go from 5 armor slots and 3 clothing slots to only 4 armor slots. The game has been around 10 years and just before the official release a major change reducing visual clothing options. Everyone was enjoying what we've been using for many years and then our options get reduced.

2. Linear Traders for Biomes... no longer do we have unpredictable maps being generated. Every single map has the exact same traders for every biome over and over and over. I want the randomly generated maps, not predictable maps for every game.

3. Every gamer will need to be changing clothes multiple times a day for mining, salvaging, collecting loot, fighting zombies, etc., etc., . The bonuses are too important to ignore... or if you do ignore the bonuses then you're choosing to spend more time for less stuff. It's quite easy to determine if you'll like this feature... simply begin changing your clothes in real life 3 times every day then after a week share your thoughts.

4. Many duplicated bonuses on the new set armors. I have played many different types of games during the last 40 years and I have never seen such a shallow creation of set armors. Each piece of clothing from a set has only one bonus and most of these bonuses are often duplicated on others.


The game was so good and then during the last 13 months the developers completely change the game removing great stuff to gamble on major changes. It's like dating a wonderful lady for 8 years... you get engaged and during the last 2 years she decides to start taking heroin, shave her head, quit the job she loved, install multiple face piercings and switches to a bugs only food diet.

I've always done vanilla, but knowing what's arriving.... I pray the modders can fix these mistakes.

Seems more like a list of things You want to Complain about.


1.
I welcome this Change.
The Absurd number of Clothing Slots was Annoying.
I would have maybe kept the 5 Armor Slots.
Seperating the current Outfits into Top and Bottoms.
But thats about it.

2.
Maps are Still Random. Or are the Traders now the only Feature on a Map ????

3.
Not Really. Frankly. Most of the Boni are not as Big unless You get High Quality Stuff.
I will likely wear a Mix of Armor Parts for my General Use Armor that I wear normally.
And then have the Ressource Gathering Armors in Crates next to the Respective Ressources. As I will use them Pretty much Exclusively for that.

As for Your Testing Suggestion. Uhh Yeah Sorry to Tell You. But thats just my Normal Workday.
You may not know this. But quite alot of Jobs Require wearing certain Clothing and Protection Gear. And You likely dont Sleep in your Street Clothes either.
And thats before we account for Dates or other Activities where You might want to wear different clothes.
I myself Change 4 Times on a Normal Workday. Make that 5 Times if I am going out with someone or have some sort of Appointment that warrants more than Street Clothes.
Even on my Days Off I will usually at least Change 2 Times.

4.
Ever maybe had the Idea that this is on Purpose so that People have Different Options for Specific Bonuses so they can Mix and Match something they Like ???




As for the Rest.
Uhm No Offense. But Simple Option for You.
Use the last Alpha Build that You Loved.
Nobody Forces You to Play the Newer Versions.

[Antearz]

Originally posted by Shurenai:

Re 1: People have been ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about the old out of date character model and clothes (and many aspects of them) for years. Devs finally update it, and now a new subset of users is coming out of the woodwork to ♥♥♥♥♥ about how they updated everything and how dare they. :conwayshrug: Going to full inhouse and decently good looking assets meant having to pare down how many options there are in both the character creation and clothing departments. This isn't something the devs will ever satisfy everyone on.

For Fairness Said. This Part is Pretty Normal xD
People who are Satisfied Generally just Shut up and take it.
You wont hear from them Unless You change it to something they dont like xD

Such is Human Nature after all. Most of the Time when People want to make themselves Heard its when they got something to Complain xD

[Nebgama]

unhinged whining

[Dester]

Originally posted by Shurenai:

Just my two cents;
RE: 4, the duplicated set bonuses, they seem to be on different pieces of the armors; So if you really want that one specific bonus, you can get it on multiple pieces by forgoing the set bonus and just wearing the individual pieces from the sets that give the bonus you want.

IE: One set has Stamina Regen on hands, another has it on feet, a third has it on chest.

Regarding bonuses on the set gear... there's dozens of popular fun games which clearly do this better. I mention this because it's very disappointing to see such a shallow design for set bonuses on gear.

Originally posted by Shurenai:

Re 3: Being a bonus, It means that the baseline is already the same- The time you're used to spending doing XYZ is going to be about the same, and you can get a bonus for it if you want. If you're a minmaxer who can't say no to those bonuses because it's "less efficient/less fast", be prepared, in general, in ANY game not just this one, to be optimizing the fun out of your gameplay and pigeonholing yourself into such dilemmas.. Just use the armor you wanna use, and don't stress so much about it.

As mentioned previously the bonuses are too important to ignore OR if you choose to ignore them then you'll be taking more time for weaker\less results. Try changing your clothes 3 times every single day... and at the end of the week then share your thoughts.... because that's what's happening.

Originally posted by Shurenai:

Re 2: ONE aspect of the RWG is static; The order of traders. Many other things are still just as random. It's not as if having a static trader order to follow an intended progression locks every single other thing in and turns it into navezgane 2.0 where the entire save is exactly the same every time. And if you have any care at all for Bandits and a reasonably cohesive Story, this was an essentially necessary step.

That static traders is the problem... it's predictable. Randomly generated worlds means you don't know which trader you'll find. It's the equivalent of having chicken every Monday then tacos every Tuesday then hamburgers every Wednesday and hotdogs every Thursday... over and over and over and over. Unpredictable is ALWAYS more fun.

Originally posted by Shurenai:

Re 1: People have been ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about the old out of date character model and clothes (and many aspects of them) for years. Devs finally update it, and now a new subset of users is coming out of the woodwork to ♥♥♥♥♥ about how they updated everything and how dare they. :conwayshrug: Going to full inhouse and decently good looking assets meant having to pare down how many options there are in both the character creation and clothing departments. This isn't something the devs will ever satisfy everyone on.

The out of date character models could have been updated WITHOUT removing the armor slots and clothing slots. Do NOT even try to claim the developers were FORCED to reduce down to 4 armor slots. Better looking assets does not mean reducing visual options. I know because I work as a senior software engineer for a major healthcare company.

[God Bless The Dead]

Less clothing slots, but a lot more selection of better armour now and the new mod slots will allow more options for the missing clothes slots, the old clothing was not good anyway, just bland basic stuff like a T-shirt, vest, shorts and so on.. you will really miss that? over the much better looking stuff being added?..

Also, you can do everything you want to still, but if you have the right clothing for the right job you get a little extra, so what? why is that bad? either wear it or dont.

That's pretty much your only issue along with each trader set to a biome, I dont like the trader change, but it's hardly game breaking and can probably be edited.. if it stays this way though, I think Jen should be in the pineforest biome and Rekt in the burnt biome, as no one wants to see that much of Rekt lol but again, who cares really, it's a trader, they still sell stuff and have quests.

[Bonzai1102]

Originally posted by Nebgama:

unhinged whining

No, just an opinion.
But you don't get it...

[Wrothbog]

for what it's worth this is v1.0 for reasons unrelated to anything to do with us.

this is a22 for all intents and purposes. maybe they needed to end early access for some console related nonsense rule. TFP has said there would be a beta version before going release version. we suddenly skipped straight to release

in this era version 1.0 is just another release date that lets a game company cash in on release day sales. the constant stream of updates before and after makes it meaningless. 12 months later there's the game of the year edition, after 5 years there's the anniversary edition. 10 years later there's the definitive edition.

presumably we're still getting npc bandits/raiders in A23 or A24, when large scale game altering changes are still happening, your games still in alpha.

[Shurenai]

Originally posted by Dester:

Originally posted by Shurenai:

Re 1: People have been ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about the old out of date character model and clothes (and many aspects of them) for years. Devs finally update it, and now a new subset of users is coming out of the woodwork to ♥♥♥♥♥ about how they updated everything and how dare they. Going to full inhouse and decently good looking assets meant having to pare down how many options there are in both the character creation and clothing departments. This isn't something the devs will ever satisfy everyone on.

The out of date character models could have been updated WITHOUT removing the armor slots and clothing slots. Do NOT even try to claim the developers were FORCED to reduce down to 4 armor slots. Better looking assets does not mean reducing visual options. I know because I work as a senior software engineer for a major healthcare company.

Actually, no, they couldn't. The existing character models used a model type that had been otherwise completely removed from the game because it was causing heavy performance problems (The same system used to be used for Zombies, and it went badly). That system has finally been completely removed with the removal of the old character model/creator.

All the clothes and armors that you've been playing with were for that specific model system, iirc called UMA, and were not compatible with the new inhouse character model system... They had to start from scratch and make everything new.

[Dester]

Originally posted by God Bless The Dead:

Less clothing slots, but a lot more selection of better armour now and the new mod slots will allow more options for the missing clothes slots, the old clothing was not good anyway, just bland basic stuff like a T-shirt, vest, shorts and so on.. you will really miss that? over the much better looking stuff being added?..

Also, you can do everything you want to still, but if you have the right clothing for the right job you get a little extra, so what? why is that bad? either wear it or dont.

That's pretty much your only issue along with each trader set to a biome, I dont like the trader change, but it's hardly game breaking and can probably bet edited.. if it stays this way though, I think Jen should be in the pineforest biome and Rekt in the burnt biome, as no one wants to see that much of Rekt lol but again, who cares really, it's a trader, they still sell stuff and have quests.

During mid and late game every player will be changing their clothes multiple times each day because the bonuses are extremely powerful. As previously mentioned... try changing your clothes 3 times every day during a week then at the end of the week share your thoughts because that's what's happening inside the game. Choosing to ignore the mining bonuses or salvaging bonuses or looting bonuses or fighting bonuses just means you're choosing to spend more time for less\weaker results.

I care about the fixed trader in each biome because this means "every map is predictable" which trader I meet in the game. Starting every game knowing all the traders in the grasslands are Rekt. Knowing the Joel Traders will always be in the wasteland. Hopefully the developers recognize the flaw in the forced linear design.

[Dester]

Originally posted by Shurenai:

Actually, no, they couldn't. The existing character models used a model type that had been otherwise completely removed from the game because it was causing heavy performance problems (The same system used to be used for Zombies, and it went badly). That system has finally been completely removed with the removal of the old character model/creator.

All the clothes and armors that you've been playing with were for that specific model system, iirc called UMA, and were not compatible with the new inhouse character model system... They had to start from scratch and make everything new.

The new character model is NOT forced to have only 4 armor slots. The developers could have chosen a new character model with 5 armor slots, 7 armor slots or even 10 armor slots.
"Starting from scratch and making everything new" does NOT mean being forced with only 4 armor slots.

[Shurenai]

Originally posted by Dester:

Originally posted by Shurenai:

Actually, no, they couldn't. The existing character models used a model type that had been otherwise completely removed from the game because it was causing heavy performance problems (The same system used to be used for Zombies, and it went badly). That system has finally been completely removed with the removal of the old character model/creator.

All the clothes and armors that you've been playing with were for that specific model system, iirc called UMA, and were not compatible with the new inhouse character model system... They had to start from scratch and make everything new.

The new character model is NOT forced to have only 4 armor slots. The developers could have chosen a new character model with 5 armor slots, 7 armor slots or even 10 armor slots.
"Starting from scratch and making everything new" does NOT mean being forced with only 4 armor slots.

True; Every additional slot means that much more work, though. Do you want your update in 2050 the way everyone keeps joking? 'Cause that's how you get your update in 2050. There's gotta be an upper limit, a cut off to the amount you're adding. What is it, 16 or something sets of 4? That's 64~ items modeled, rigged, animated, itemized, balanced, tested in a thousand different situations to make sure it all works right; That's a LOT of work to do alongside everything else that needs doing.

I'm sure you would love to have had 5 armor slots and 10 clothing slots, or 100 of each even but unless you want only 1-2 choices for each, or to get the update sometime in your twilight years, somethings gotta give.

[Mithrandir]

Sorry but I don't see the drama OP.

If those minor changes are enough to ditch your wonderful lady, it's your loss. All she did was to buy you a few outfits for particular occasions or purposes and suggested that you could change depending on where you go or what you do. Oh and she told you in what city she purchased them, big mistake it seems.