Why?

[kingfeinix22]

So let me get this straight... When you build in this game you build based off physics (a mechanic that usually works against the player). When you drive in this game, you drive based on physics (which is just really fun). When you hit a zombie in the leg with a giant steel sledgehammer they somehow stumble towards you (forward instead of sideways, the best is the reverse spin move where you hit them on the right side and they spin AGAINST the hit instead of with it, it makes me giggle every time) while attacking you with grace and precision (instead of flailing wildly with the hitboxes to the side, behind or literally just in front of them). And while they are recovering they throw another attack, just cus, which deals as much damage as a standing attack (unlike the player), by the way, and has an additional chance to cripple you. Which really sucks cus after they recover, they immediately break into a sprint on what should be a severely damaged leg (even if they can't feel pain a shattered femur or torn mcl can't hold weight)... Based on physics.

Mmmmmmmkkkkkkaaaaaaayyyyyyy.... But why though? Why do that? Why do that when everything else in the game makes sense? There are already enough glitches and hit box issues, not to mention how erratic enemy movement is (especially when it comes to the terrain), to make combat challenging. Why the extra F you to melee builds?

I guess to be fair this isn't a crazy issue on normal difficulty, so most players probably won't notice it. But melee is completely worthless on higher levels of difficulty. No amount of talent, skill or luck can save you. It forces players to cheese the game. Anything that actively encourages the player to exploit the game isn't really working as intended, In my opinion... I guess. It just really strikes me as odd that in a game filled to the brim with physics that enemy reactivity would somehow fall through the cracks so completely. The only thing I can think of is that it is a difficulty tweak? But in a game where enemies literally spawn on top of you... It really feels like a poor design choice.

[GinsengSamurai]

The game isn't based off physics. It's based off funsics.

With that out of the way, game logic for 7DTD isn't based on real life. Hence, funsics rather than physics. So whether it was made that way intentionally or not, depends on how the zombies function when 7DTD becomes v1.0 (live, out of testing).

I am not saying I agree with how 7DTD works. I am saying it's not physics. ^_^

[kingfeinix22]

Dude. Buildings collapse without proper support. When you hit stuff in a car your momentum is stopped and the object is destroyed or damaged. That is an approximation of physics. Where as in minecraft you can build anything anywhere and it will not collapse. Is is "Real World Physics"? No. Don't be stupid. That is way too much math. No one would ever put that in a game. But the game behaves according to the principles of physics. In every way except enemy reactivity. Its odd, and it doesn't fit with the rest of what the game presents. And I personally believe it makes the game worse. What you said is ridiculous and has literally nothing to do with what I said at all. It's like you only read the word "physics" from my post and responded to that.

[GinsengSamurai]

Originally posted by kingfeinix22:

What you said is ridiculous and has literally nothing to do with what I said at all. It's like you only read the word "physics" from my post and responded to that.

[sigh]

I was trying to tell you, the game has massive flaws and it has been discussed repeatedly into the abyss of despair. Does it make sense that zombies move forward when you sledgehammer their faces? No. Does it make sense empty jars aren't left behind after you drink juice and water? No. Does it make sense that bumping into a cactus sometimes spin my jeep upwards into a tornado of funsics? No. Does most of 7DTD make sense? No.

So what I was trying to tell you previously, but not in so many words, is that while I utterly and totally agree with you, ultimately, we should wait until 7DTD come out of Alpha/Beta, before putting more thought into this.

So far, 7DTD has been 10 years of "WTF?!" ^_^ Instead of asking "Why?" just go with the flow, shake your head, sigh in unison with everyone, and mumble, "WTF?!" ;)

[Oneblock]

It makes sense to lug around several tonnes of rock and metal? Or is it just a game with arbitrary systems?

[kingfeinix22]

The inventory system is something else entirely. Geeze. Some people. But if you want to talk inventory it is a very short conversation. 6000 is just a number. Tons? Grams is far more likely. Where are you getting that from? You get like 1000 UNITS per node of ore and like 200 UNITS from a car. 250 UNITS of cloth. It takes 50 UNITS of cloth to make a pair of gloves. It takes 200 UNITS of cloth to make lining for those gloves. The inventory is completely and totally arbitrary and 0 thought is put behind the numbers or what they mean. Which is fine. It genuinely doesn't bother me. Especially since there are sliders that control block harvesting and loot amount.

There are no sliders for enemy reactivity. Hell. The sliders that actually exist do literally nothing. Put the slider for enemy running to always walk. Hit them once and they break out into a full sprint. This is where problems arise. In my opinion.

[Darren]

Its always the same story with the same bad examples, just to say something against some words used. i really dont get it - wrote something in another thread this morning to a similiar thing, but i'll repeat. So because of we can take the 4x4 in the iventory it would be okay for you that we are going to ride flying rabbits in the next alpha or what? Its that kind of logic you use.

To the Topic, it seems that things like this are made to annoy the players, really. its not so long ago, the Z's didnt do that. i think it came with A21, together with other fun killing Things.

You're right, if you play on low difficulty its not too bad, depending on what kind of player you are. Its jjust silly and surley could be done better if they wanted so.

(Sorry for bad grammar, it's late, I'm tired and I'm not a native speaker, but I think everyone understands what I mean, hm?)

[Roland]

There is a rage mechanic that causes zombies to sometimes go berserk and run full speed for a short period after they are damaged. It is a completely separate mechanic and feature from the setting for normal run speed. The frequency at which zombies go into rage is dependent on the difficulty level. So if you play on scavenger they almost never rage. If you play on insane they almost always rage.

Hence, if you are playing on insane and set zombies to walking speed always they will always walk unless you hurt them. If you do they will almost always run for a short time before they settle back to walking again.

There is also a knockback feature that some weapons have a high chance of delivering which will knock zombies back on their back when you hit them. Without the knockback result from your weapon they continue to move forward sometimes spinning and as already mentioned sometimes going into a rage, You can think of it as your hit is a solid one that knocks them back whenever you score a knockback but simply a glancing blow which damages but doesn't squarely smash them backward and because they don't respond to pain and often rage at higher levels they will continue to move forward despite your sledgehammer swing.

What all this means is that the features work together great at the default difficulty level and they make things tougher for the player as higher difficulties are selected. It sounds to me like the OP has pushed the difficulty beyond the point that they are capable of playing and wants the balance changed to make the higher difficulties "possible" without having to "resort to exploits".

Here's the thing. Not everyone has to resort to exploits to make the high difficulty option possible. They are able to play to the challenge and gutting the highest difficulties of challenge just so people who struggle with it can play is going to ruin the fun of those who can play at that level. The best option for the op is to turn the difficulty down so zombies rage less often and then fully perk into those weapons that increase the chance for knockback.

[Shurenai]

Originally posted by Darren:

Its always the same story with the same bad examples, just to say something against some words used. i really dont get it - wrote something in another thread this morning to a similiar thing, but i'll repeat. So because of we can take the 4x4 in the iventory it would be okay for you that we are going to ride flying rabbits in the next alpha or what? Its that kind of logic you use.

To the Topic, it seems that things like this are made to annoy the players, really. its not so long ago, the Z's didnt do that. i think it came with A21, together with other fun killing Things.

You're right, if you play on low difficulty its not too bad, depending on what kind of player you are. Its jjust silly and surley could be done better if they wanted so.

(Sorry for bad grammar, it's late, I'm tired and I'm not a native speaker, but I think everyone understands what I mean, hm?)

Thing is, The same thing is true in reverse... because some singular mechanic in the game is realistic, people like the OP complain that every single mechanic in the game is not realistic.

Because Buildings have physics, Zombies must also have realistic physics, and because it doesnt it's broken/BS/Unrealistic/Etc.

Both extremes are bad. 7DTD has never set out to be a 100% totally and completely realistic game.... Neither has it ever set out to be a 100% totally and completely UNrealistic game. It has a pseudorealism that it sticks to when it's fun, and ignores when it's not.

So to pose an example:
It's pseudo-realistic that we can only have so many items in our inventory before we become overencumbered; Meanwhile every single one of those slots could be filled with an amount of material practically equivalent to a small moon (500 1m cubes of Concrete can fit in one slot; that's 2.4~ tons per block x 500 x 30 or so inventory slots)_ .... Or it could be filled with a bunch of single individual feathers, either way, you dont get encumbered until you go over the amount of open slots you have.

It is fun/engaging/interesting to have to choose what items you bring back, to pick through trash and walk away with the gold.... It would NOT be fun/engaging/interesting to have everything weigh exactly as much as it does IRL and limit our inventory to like 40-80lbs and 6 inventory slots because that's about how much a person could realistically be hauling around at all times, thus forcing base building to be a tedious mess of walking back and forth with a couple individual planks 5-6 times to build a SINGLE block out of the hundreds you need to build to make a base.


Both extremes are bad. The reality is somewhere in the middle; The devs try to take what realistic stuff is fun/interesting, and outright ignore what they think wont be. That is game design at its core.

[kingfeinix22]

@Shurenai

"Because Buildings have physics, Zombies must also have realistic physics, and because it doesnt it's broken/BS/Unrealistic/Etc."

"Dude. Buildings collapse without proper support. When you hit stuff in a car your momentum is stopped and the object is destroyed or damaged. That is an approximation of physics. Where as in minecraft you can build anything anywhere and it will not collapse. Is is "Real World Physics"? No. Don't be stupid. That is way too much math. No one would ever put that in a game. But the game behaves according to the principles of physics. In every way except enemy reactivity. Its odd, and it doesn't fit with the rest of what the game presents. And I personally believe it makes the game worse."

Please stop. I've sufficiently explained myself. At this point you are being willfully ignorant. As long as you can pick up a truck the inventory system is unapproachable as a topic to even begin to discus. Attacking the same straw men in support of a poorly implemented game mechanic that serves no purpose other than to frustrate players with artificial difficulty. However, intractable physics between objects has blatant inconsistencies that inconvenience the player. That is all I am saying. If you would like to address that feel free to do so, it would be appreciated. If not. Please stop. This isn't the right post for you.

[kingfeinix22]

@Roland
"Here's the thing. Not everyone has to resort to exploits to make the high difficulty option possible. They are able to play to the challenge and gutting the highest difficulties of challenge just so people who struggle with it can play is going to ruin the fun of those who can play at that level. The best option for the op is to turn the difficulty down so zombies rage less often and then fully perk into those weapons that increase the chance for knockback."

I will admit, the rage mechanic thing is pretty funny. But it would behoove you not to post conjecture about things you are unwilling to understand. You somehow missed the entire point of this thread. Which is fine. Just don't post. It's actually quite rude to pick and choose what you want to read and respond to and just ignore whatever information isn't convenient for you. It doesn't help my understanding of the situation or the quality of the game at all. Thank you.

[NHL12]

simple answer is, lol its made like that because it offers more challenge

nothing more, nothing less... yeah i think it's stupid for a zombie to spin around in a circle and still manage to smack you hard, or the ole leap jump attack, where they'll perform a giant leap and still have some sort of ability to attack even tho they wasted their energy performing a giant jump

now with that being said, you can master the melee easily lol, the AI isn't that hard to figure out... it's funny when people are veterans who still struggle with melee combat to this date, i actually know someone like that lmao

hit em in the head, kite em for a little, and repeat... i like going for the back of the head as this is a legit tactic in combat sports, dangerous part to hit someone

[Zairev]

Yeah, noticed this too few days ago, when i shot zombie to the face with a slug, he somehow got superboost momentum for the second, but not backwards in a way that force was applied, but towards me. That was so ridiculous that made me stop for a moment to think wtf did i just seen.

[[STD]Random Lead]

Originally posted by kingfeinix22:

Please stop. I've sufficiently explained myself. At this point you are being willfully ignorant. As long as you can pick up a truck the inventory system is unapproachable as a topic to even begin to discus. Attacking the same straw men in support of a poorly implemented game mechanic that serves no purpose other than to frustrate players with artificial difficulty. However, intractable physics between objects has blatant inconsistencies that inconvenience the player. That is all I am saying. If you would like to address that feel free to do so, it would be appreciated. If not. Please stop. This isn't the right post for you.

here we go again with a new player not understanding the game. Based on this though you are not willing to be educated. Have fun. If you are ever able to accept the explanations and suspend your disbeliefe your enjoyment of the GAME will increase.

[Doc]

Originally posted by kingfeinix22:

.... When you hit a zombie in the leg with a giant steel sledgehammer they somehow stumble towards you (forward instead of sideways....

It bugs me to no end as well. I get that not everything in a zombie game is realist, like the zombies themselves and some aspects just because its a video game, but constantly falling towards the player that just hit them backwards just seems like intentionally going out of the way to create something unnecessary. If TFP want to create more of a challenge, that's fine, make zombies walk/run in a less predictable so that ranged attacks are less predictable or kick a foot up when they fall back so that it hits you in the jaw of you stay close.

It's probably more annoying to me after many years of kickboxing and I'm so conditioned on how to punch, move, etc and this movement mechanic is messing with my brain.

[Darren]

Originally posted by Shurenai:

Originally posted by Darren:

Its always the same story with the same bad examples, just to say something against some words used. i really dont get it - wrote something in another thread this morning to a similiar thing, but i'll repeat. So because of we can take the 4x4 in the iventory it would be okay for you that we are going to ride flying rabbits in the next alpha or what? Its that kind of logic you use.

To the Topic, it seems that things like this are made to annoy the players, really. its not so long ago, the Z's didnt do that. i think it came with A21, together with other fun killing Things.

You're right, if you play on low difficulty its not too bad, depending on what kind of player you are. Its jjust silly and surley could be done better if they wanted so.

(Sorry for bad grammar, it's late, I'm tired and I'm not a native speaker, but I think everyone understands what I mean, hm?)

Thing is, The same thing is true in reverse... because some singular mechanic in the game is realistic, people like the OP complain that every single mechanic in the game is not realistic.

Because Buildings have physics, Zombies must also have realistic physics, and because it doesnt it's broken/BS/Unrealistic/Etc.

Both extremes are bad. 7DTD has never set out to be a 100% totally and completely realistic game.... Neither has it ever set out to be a 100% totally and completely UNrealistic game. It has a pseudorealism that it sticks to when it's fun, and ignores when it's not.

So to pose an example:
It's pseudo-realistic that we can only have so many items in our inventory before we become overencumbered; Meanwhile every single one of those slots could be filled with an amount of material practically equivalent to a small moon (500 1m cubes of Concrete can fit in one slot; that's 2.4~ tons per block x 500 x 30 or so inventory slots)_ .... Or it could be filled with a bunch of single individual feathers, either way, you dont get encumbered until you go over the amount of open slots you have.

It is fun/engaging/interesting to have to choose what items you bring back, to pick through trash and walk away with the gold.... It would NOT be fun/engaging/interesting to have everything weigh exactly as much as it does IRL and limit our inventory to like 40-80lbs and 6 inventory slots because that's about how much a person could realistically be hauling around at all times, thus forcing base building to be a tedious mess of walking back and forth with a couple individual planks 5-6 times to build a SINGLE block out of the hundreds you need to build to make a base.


Both extremes are bad. The reality is somewhere in the middle; The devs try to take what realistic stuff is fun/interesting, and outright ignore what they think wont be. That is game design at its core.

Yep, the Thing is here i‘m some kind of fed up if people make an legit point, like some things doesnt make sense to them, a handful other coming in every time with such an answer, like „theres more like this“ and and then act like the OP is asking for some extremes in every aspect. This often attempts to simply drag the whole thing into the absurd or to suffocate it outright.

That's just not an appropriate way to have a discussion forum or even discuss things at all, and really disrespectful and thats why i will react like this.

You‘re right, a „realism sim“ wouldnt be much fun for this game, also an arcade browser Game would not and keeping it somewhere in the middle is a good way, but imo we are far away from that. Some details are just missing some common sense too much. Some Kind of details that should make sense at least.
But it doesnt matter if people agree or not, theres no reason to react to a normal question or opinion in this way it often happens here. (In general)