[ARMOR] Give me one reason

[Riitoken]

Ok, I'm level 51. Just beat Day35 with a melee base and a Steel sledge and padded armor.

I like armor, a lot. But this hammer needs all the love it can get with stamina output.

Based on what I see and read, the leather set and the military set gimp stamina output way too much for the gain. And I gotta say, I don't hardly get hit much inside my melee base if I"m standing where I should. The sledge gives me superior reach, the zoms just flail at me and miss. So I'm not feeling the need to worry about taking hits regularly.

The sledge is all about timing, and I almost always power swing and score a one-shot on all but the big fat boys and girl. I've killed as many as 3 in a single swing if they're spaced just right.

Bottom line: The heavier armor is the answer to getting swarmed on all sides. It's not needed if you can one-shot, and all the zoms are in front of you.

Give me one solid reason to abandon my padded set.

[comet_65cali]

Depending on your game-stage, and game settings, also if you are playing on permadeath or not.

Something like a Killing Corridor or Hatch Hallway is still a meta for mitigating damage and lining up hits/shots, which according to your description, is something that you have. Padded Armor should be okay.

However, there are some solid reasons why you might want to upgrade:

1) Armor does other things besides help reduce damage: They also help with reducing de-buffs as well. A Regular Zombie that won't be able to reach you isn't the issue. Its the Cop-Vomit that can really mess you up with its ranged attacks that will cause de-buffs. The better armor greatly reduces the chance for debuffs: Something to keep in mind.

2) Day 35 and Level 51, doesn't sound like you've come across any radiated or Feral Wights. You will have definitely not come across Demos. Sledgehammers have glancing blows, so you are more than likely going to hit that glowing button on their chests. 2 or 3 of them kamikaze and your base can be compromised/destroyed, even with full-steel upgrades.

[Riitoken]

Originally posted by comet_65cali:

Depending on your game-stage, and game settings, also if you are playing on permadeath or not.

Something like a Killing Corridor or Hatch Hallway is still a meta for mitigating damage and lining up hits/shots, which according to your description, is something that you have. Padded Armor should be okay.

However, there are some solid reasons why you might want to upgrade:

1) Armor does other things besides help reduce damage: They also help with reducing de-buffs as well. A Regular Zombie that won't be able to reach you isn't the issue. Its the Cop-Vomit that can really mess you up with its ranged attacks that will cause de-buffs. The better armor greatly reduces the chance for debuffs: Something to keep in mind.

2) Day 35 and Level 51, doesn't sound like you've come across any radiated or Feral Wights. You will have definitely not come across Demos. Sledgehammers have glancing blows, so you are more than likely going to hit that glowing button on their chests. 2 or 3 of them kamikaze and your base can be compromised/destroyed, even with full-steel upgrades.

I hear ya on the debuffs. I get abrasions and sprains and knocks more than I'd like. And I'll get an occasional broken bone. So I guess the heavier armor can help with that.

[Pain Weasel]

T6 Infested quests in higher tier biomes.

No base to protect you and literally dozens of irradiated zombies screaming at you from all directions.

[Riitoken]

Originally posted by Pain Weasel:

T6 Infested quests in higher tier biomes.

No base to protect you and literally dozens of irradiated zombies screaming at you from all directions.

Hehe, seems intimidating. So any corridors so I can sledge head-on?

[Pain Weasel]

Originally posted by Riitoken:

Originally posted by Pain Weasel:

T6 Infested quests in higher tier biomes.

No base to protect you and literally dozens of irradiated zombies screaming at you from all directions.

Hehe, seems intimidating. So any corridors so I can sledge head-on?

Sure there are corridors, and not all the fights are huge but just be ready for absolute chaos. Some of the POIs are easier than others though.

[Jonnson]

So, the game goes to GS (game stage) 1000, and as you increase your level and days survived your GS will increase, as it increases the zombies get stronger (hit harder/have more Health), and more feral (even stronger) zombies will spawn. This is everywhere, random zeds outside, in poi's, in missions, and on the bloodmoon. Radiated zombie (green glowing) can regenerate dmg. You will get to a point where all the zombies are irradiated feral, and mostly just the strong ones will spawn, demos, cops, lumberjacks. The total amount of zombies you get for the bloodmoon will also increase.

At this point your GS is around 100, probably lower. So, understand that you are basically in early game (less than 1/10th of the way through). Low level. A t6 infested mission in the wasteland at GS 500, for instance, will be whole different experience than you have seen so far...especially, if its a night mission.

Also, consider your settings. At warrior setting, for instance, the enemy is far weaker than at insane difficulty. At normal run speed, your zombies can easily be fought 1 at a time, but on nightmare speeds, you can have a dozen zombies swinging in your face at once, and indoors that can be trouble.

As the other guy mentioned, there is critical dmg to consider, and at higher levels, at harder difficulties, you'll get hit a lot more often, and those status effects will start to hurt. Heavier armor, reduces that.

I too, use cloth armor up until about level 60-80, then I switch to heavier armor. I do play on insane/nightmare though, so I assume at lower settings you could probably swing it to level 100+. It just comes down to playstile when out and about, and base use when on BM. I have played games to the max level, naked, so I mean, it just depends on how you're playing. My naked guy wouldn't fight a GS 300 BM in a field, whereas my heavily armored tank, would do it at GS 1000.

Let me point out that with the proper buffs, build and gear, you can outrun nightmare speed zeds in heavy armor, and your stamina rarely falls to a level that worries you, even when face tanking them at GS 1000 on insane/nightmare. Light armor is basically broken since the stealth aspect of the game is kinda buggy. That being said, heavy armor is totally better once you have the proper setup.

Edit,
Here are some tips to help you out;

Look for and wear the "College jacket," increases run speed
Farm and drink coffee for hydration. Drink it a lot, for the stamina buff
Look for the "high performance boots" there is a pair that increases run speed.
Find the books "urban combat" one of the pages will remove stamina penalties when fighting
max out your heavy armor (or light if you wanna) as that will reduce stamina usage
obtain the mobility mods for armor, they will reduce the stamina penalties.
eat foods that buff your stamina, like steak and potatoes, remember its a percentage boost all these buffs, so the higher your stamina, the higher the regen as well

These 2 work together, since you move while fighting, and it IS noticeable;
max out the perk "1 rule cardio" stamina penalty reduction when moving
max out your weapon, reduced stamina when using it.

Also, the candy "health bar" (found in vending machines) will significantly reduce getting status effects, in particular, the bleed effect. Stock up on them for later game. You can stack all buffs 3 times (the duration of), so you could eat 3 health bars, or 3 nerd tats, or 3 beers, or 3 coffee.

Placing points in the physician skill will reduce status effect duration when healing up, this is very important. The perk healing factor will reduce normal healing time of status effects, extremely important for late game. The iron gut perk will increase duration of buffs, this is very important when stacking candy buffs, like health bars, or fort bites. Also, Iron gut will negate the extra food/water consumption that occurs from healing factor.

Here is an example of a "mid" game BM at GS 500'ish, on insane/nightmare, outside. Sorry for my crap graphics, and while I tried to be entertaining, turns out I suck. Notice the list of buffs I have down the left side of my toolbar, and their durations. Take note of how many times I get hit, how little dmg I take, and how rapidly the status effects drop. Look at how fast I am running, and how my stamina hardly moves. This is heavy armor, properly supported. Skip to 4:00 if you wanna avoid my laughable attempt at acting. I'd say I'm warmed up around 9:00

https://youtu.be/5g5Sv3OA7CQ

[Riitoken]

Originally posted by Jonnson:

At this point your GS is around 100, probably lower. So, understand that you are basically in early game (less than 1/10th of the way through).

Yes, GS 104, Day 41, Level 53. Scavenger, 300%xp, Daily Drops, No Loss Death.

I've died 3x.

Your video makes your point very well. I will say that the Demos seem to make it easier. They appear to be doing you a favor. Luv all the left-side buffs. I need to start collecting candy-bars.

[Pain Weasel]

Originally posted by Riitoken:

Originally posted by Jonnson:

At this point your GS is around 100, probably lower. So, understand that you are basically in early game (less than 1/10th of the way through).

Yes, GS 104, Day 41, Level 53. Scavenger, 300%xp, Daily Drops, No Loss Death.

I've died 3x.

Your video makes your point very well. I will say that the Demos seem to make it easier. They appear to be doing you a favor. Luv all the left-side buffs. I need to start collecting candy-bars.

Playing on Scavenger is a totally different experience. On Scavenger zombies only do 50% damage to you and you do 200% damage to them so it is pretty much expected you'll one shot zombies. I'm not sure I'd bother with better armor at that difficulty either.

[Riitoken]

Originally posted by Pain Weasel:

Originally posted by Riitoken:

Yes, GS 104, Day 41, Level 53. Scavenger, 300%xp, Daily Drops, No Loss Death.

I've died 3x.

Your video makes your point very well. I will say that the Demos seem to make it easier. They appear to be doing you a favor. Luv all the left-side buffs. I need to start collecting candy-bars.

Playing on Scavenger is a totally different experience. On Scavenger zombies only do 50% damage to you and you do 200% damage to them so it is pretty much expected you'll one shot zombies. I'm not sure I'd bother with better armor at that difficulty either.

Thanks. I like one-shotting a lot. Bullet sponges are not my thing.

I've been saving all the best armor from the daily drops. I've got a purple scrap set now. So I suppose I'll start using it at some point just to feel the experience.

I just survived horde night 42, had to run with only 30min remaining because I forgot to repair a section of my front railing. I quaffed my first Mega Crush - it was fantastic. I sprinted for over a solid minute and still had over half stamina.

Running seems like the ultimate strategy given that all blocks have HP and can be destroyed.

When it comes time to run (really run for your life), then the heavy armor is a liability.

I can't make concrete blocks yet because I don't have a cement mixer (still need forge mags). I'm still enjoying the melee base build a lot. I'll have a purple steel sledge soon. After that I'll focus on one of the firearms so I can kill the vomit cops and demos before they get across the tight rope.

I will try all the amor sets at some point.

[Mithrandir]

Originally posted by Riitoken:

Originally posted by Pain Weasel:

Playing on Scavenger is a totally different experience. On Scavenger zombies only do 50% damage to you and you do 200% damage to them so it is pretty much expected you'll one shot zombies. I'm not sure I'd bother with better armor at that difficulty either.

Thanks. I like one-shotting a lot. Bullet sponges are not my thing.

I've been saving all the best armor from the daily drops. I've got a purple scrap set now. So I suppose I'll start using it at some point just to feel the experience.

I just survived horde night 42, had to run with only 30min remaining because I forgot to repair a section of my front railing. I quaffed my first Mega Crush - it was fantastic. I sprinted for over a solid minute and still had over half stamina.

Running seems like the ultimate strategy given that all blocks have HP and can be destroyed.

When it comes time to run (really run for your life), then the heavy armor is a liability.

I can't make concrete blocks yet because I don't have a cement mixer (still need forge mags). I'm still enjoying the melee base build a lot. I'll have a purple steel sledge soon. After that I'll focus on one of the firearms so I can kill the vomit cops and demos before they get across the tight rope.

I will try all the amor sets at some point.

All I can say is I used to wear light armor when I was playing lower diff levels. It's all I needed and being faster and stealthier was fun. I was thinking exactly like you are.

Now that I'm playing survivalist, I wouldn't dare trying a T4+ mission without heavy armor.

Higher level is not only about spongy zeds, they hurt a lot more and tougher/faster ones spawn earlier.

[blazha]

Military armor gives almost the same protection from debuffs but has a lot more mobility which is essential for any kind of melee. In addition to that you have greatly reduced stamina regeneration while wearing heavy armor, because you are moving all the time even if it's just step forward/backward and armor affects stamina regeneration while walking or running.

[Jonnson]

Originally posted by blazha:

Military armor gives almost the same protection from debuffs but has a lot more mobility which is essential for any kind of melee. In addition to that you have greatly reduced stamina regeneration while wearing heavy armor, because you are moving all the time even if it's just step forward/backward and armor affects stamina regeneration while walking or running.

Chapter 6 of the book, "Urban Combat," negates armor movement penalties.
Heavy Armor mobility mods negate mobility penalties.

[Riitoken]

Originally posted by Jonnson:

Originally posted by blazha:

Military armor gives almost the same protection from debuffs but has a lot more mobility which is essential for any kind of melee. In addition to that you have greatly reduced stamina regeneration while wearing heavy armor, because you are moving all the time even if it's just step forward/backward and armor affects stamina regeneration while walking or running.

Chapter 6 of the book, "Urban Combat," negates armor movement penalties.
Heavy Armor mobility mods negate mobility penalties.

Yep, and I'm kinda waitin' for that book before I get serious about heavy armor.

[Jonnson]

Originally posted by Riitoken:

Originally posted by Jonnson:

At this point your GS is around 100, probably lower. So, understand that you are basically in early game (less than 1/10th of the way through).

Yes, GS 104, Day 41, Level 53. Scavenger, 300%xp, Daily Drops, No Loss Death.

I've died 3x.

Your video makes your point very well. I will say that the Demos seem to make it easier. They appear to be doing you a favor. Luv all the left-side buffs. I need to start collecting candy-bars.

Yea, demos are not a problem when outside. When they are at your base, however, they are the most fearsome zombies to deal with, as they will destroy your base by exploding. At high levels, you are looking at 40-50 demos a night (at GS 1000, I stopped counting after 200). I've seen them totally destroy a base, and everything in it. Then watched the entire group of players fall to their death, or get eaten. At this point in my 7days "career" I only build a farm and a rocket factory.

"When it comes time to run (really run for your life), then the heavy armor is a liability,"
...is only true if you don't build properly for it.

As you saw in my video, I can outrun nightmare speed zombies, indefinitely. I run so fast that I can ditch the entire horde. I mean, if I take off, they have to despawn and respawn near me again. You can see me do it a few times in that video, where I just ditch them, jump up on a rock and heal. With a mega crush, Not only can I outrun, but I can run so long, that a guy in a minibike will run out of gas before I run out of stamina (a bit of an exaggeration, but you get my point). I can actually ditch the horde, swat a few vultures, and then go run a poi. In fact, with my build, I can do poi's during the BM. I did the t5 infestation at higashi tower during BM just a few days ago. Admittedly, it was exciting. I almost died, which is unheard of, when a few zombie bears came up the hall behind me, while fighting a room full of ferals. I cannot do this is military armor. You have to give up the performance boots, or you take to much dmg, so your hall jukeing is either slowed, or your status dmg is to debilitating. Bleed, bleed, bleed!

5% matters. You can't stop fighting to stop a bleed, when in a hallway, surrounded by 50 nightmare ferals. I wish they'd add in shields, so I didn't have to shave the top of my head every time I jump a group and slide down the hall. That ♥♥♥♥ is hard to do. It hurts my hand, after awhile.

Now, I want you to think for a minute...
ponder what I just described, and that light armor...

There is a lot of n00bs in this forum that will lead a newb down the path of death and destruction. Let me show you the light!

hehe yea...I'm bored.

[Riitoken]

Originally posted by blazha:

Military armor gives almost the same protection from debuffs but has a lot more mobility which is essential for any kind of melee. In addition to that you have greatly reduced stamina regeneration while wearing heavy armor, because you are moving all the time even if it's just step forward/backward and armor affects stamina regeneration while walking or running.

Looking at Military versus Leather and the military gigs just seem better overall.