A Decade of Development, but Where's the Progress?

[Ankido]

Can you help me understand something here? 7 Days to Die has been in production for 10 years, and yet, the user interface (UI) remains subpar. The crosshair is enormous and unattractive, more like an X than a proper cross. Despite the existence of UI mods like SMX and Undead Legacy, we still have this outdated UI after a decade.

Zombies have received makeovers, but the player character seems stuck in the past. The scarcity of zombies can give you the impression that the world was primarily populated by doppelgangers. Have these people never heard of squirrels? It's puzzling that wolves survived, but cats and dogs didn't.

In the game, you're constantly looting garbage, yet you can build a robot to heal you and fight on your behalf, something even Elon Musk hasn't achieved. Does this game even make sense anymore? Ovens don't work, but radioactive zombies can roam around spitting acid at you. You can build a motorcycle and car from scratch, yet cars left on the street, possibly just out of gas, are nonfunctional.

What happened to armor, weapons, and rare resources? I'm guessing this game was built on the idea of Minecraft: zombies, block structures, mining, crafting, and surviving an explorable world. Where are the armor types in the game? I find a lot of clothes to be useless. The armor is just not up to par. What happened to tiered armor from level 1 to the best? Firearms, I have no complaint about, but the game needs more variety in armor and melee weapons. How about building a spear with a chainsaw at the end or a knife with spiked edges, or even a sledgehammer with electrical wiring to shock zombies to death? Let's get creative since we're playing a fantasy game, not real life. We need better-powered workbenches for crafting superior armor and weapons.

This leaves me wondering whether the game's primary focus is on building contraptions to survive a tower defense scenario against zombie hordes or if it's meant to be a survival game, where you explore and strive to stay alive. I'm becoming increasingly confused and losing hope that this game has a promising future.

[󠁳⁧⁧⁧⁧SockTheMissing]

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[Master Queef]

fanboys incoming because its true

[Ragequit Inc.]

Have you even looked at what the game looked like in Alpha 1..? Just curious here, no fanboyism or ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ the dimwits wanna call it.

[Master Queef]

Originally posted by Ragequit Inc.:

Have you even looked at what the game looked like in Alpha 1..? Just curious here, no fanboyism or ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ the dimwits wanna call it.

Very different indeed, but 10 years different? No

[Blue Hasia]

Oh, how absolutely dreadful it is that Minecraft keeps getting updated every year! I mean, who needs fresh content, improved features, and enhanced gameplay, right? It's not like the gaming industry thrives on innovation and player engagement. No, no, let's stick to our rusty old blocks and clunky mechanics. Who needs new adventures, biomes, mobs, and endless possibilities when we can just reminisce about the good ol' days when creepers were the biggest threat and we had no need for all these fancy newfangled updates?

And let's not forget how terrible it is that the base game has changed. After all, who wants to see the evolution of a game over the years, making it more accessible, appealing to a broader audience, and constantly pushing the boundaries of what's possible in the sandbox genre? We should definitely keep things static and never allow any improvements, right? Minecraft was clearly designed to be stuck in time, like an archaeological artifact, a relic from the past.

In all seriousness, the ongoing updates and changes to Minecraft have been one of the key reasons for its enduring popularity. It's a testament to the developers' commitment to keeping the game fresh and exciting, and their dedication to the vibrant Minecraft community. So, kudos to Mojang for their "terrible" habit of keeping the game up to date.

Thisis how people sound to me when they complain about all the updates we continue to get with 7d2d with relations to another game that is stated as finished but also gets major updates each year.

[Ankido]

I had a strong aversion to vanilla Minecraft, and I totally get where you're coming from. The modding community worked wonders in transforming the game into something extraordinary. I can see that same magic happening with 7 Days to Die through mods like SMX and Undead Legacy. Mod communities can truly work wonders.

Nonetheless, it's a bit disheartening for 7 Days to Die, as it seems the community might be somewhat limited in what they can develop. One of the things I cherished most about Minecraft was the world of modded Minecraft and the fascinating modpacks available. When modpacks ventured into skyblock territory, it breathed new life into the game for me.

Minecraft offers such a rich variety of activities, from exploration to crafting, and resource collection ranging from basic materials like copper and coal to the more precious silver, gold, diamond, titanium, and beyond. The ability to build contraptions that auto-craft and assemble items from containers is truly captivating. And don't even get me started on using portals to access different dimensions; that's just pure awesomeness.

Minecraft seems poised to last for another 30 or maybe even 100 years – who knows, right? The community played a massive role in its longevity. In the case of 7 Days to Die, it does seem like the modding community might be somewhat constrained by the game's engine and design style. It's quite perplexing that after a decade, the UI still resembles a game from the 1990s. Aesthetics and quality of life improvements are also pivotal, so it's baffling why the zombies underwent changes, but the player characters remain untouched. I must say, I'm grateful that I can't see my character because the armor is far from appealing.

[SGT. D]

I went back to where I started, A16. Yeah, a lot has changed, not all for the better, but A16 sure is fun.

[Pahbi]

I guess it won't be long before mods or fanboys show up to explain why the OP is wrong.

Anyways...

Other than the recent really really dumb changes made to gardening, water and skills, the last several versions have added a fair amount of content and overall polish to the game. And to be fair, the worst changes can be edited out if someone is inclined to do so.

I guess due to the long development time, the game is really starting to show its age, and by the time it releases, I imagine the game will look even more dated.

[Roland]

Originally posted by Ankido:

Can you help me understand something here?

Maybe...

Are you honestly wanting to understand or was your question rhetorical and all the suppositions you shared are actually what you already believe to be the truth? I don't want to waste my time giving answers that will just be rejected because you've already made up your mind.

Short answer: They started as a very small studio with low to moderate goals. This is their first project and they experimented a lot with different systems and implementations of features. The game's huge success led them to set their sights higher and although they've increased the size of their team, they are by no means a large studio. Some of the things you've mentioned like UI are on the list to overhaul now that they have a dedicated art team but A20 and A21 were all about environmental art and assets and POI overhauling. Character animation and UI are both getting overhauled very soon.

Most importantly, thousands of players have been and are continuing to have fun with the game despite its incomplete status and nobody can claim the devs have abandoned it.

[Mithrandir]

Compare A1 with A21 you'll see the immense progress. That's the best answer to your title.

Now, is it the progress you wanted or expected ? That's a completely different topic, and we each have our valid opinions on that. Mine is they're small and slow but the game is still in the most played games on Steam even after 10 years, not bad for an indy game.

You mentioned UI, armors, and the player character. You can expect changes there as they're still on the road map.

The number of zeds is a performance issue. I would also like more, but I want good FPS too.
The drone is non sensical like about 80 % of the content. Realism is obviously not the main priority of this game.

When you ask if it's a tower defense game or survival game, why should it be only one ? It's a mixed genres game and we know that since almost the very beginning. From the devs themselves : 7 Days is an open-world game that is a unique combination of first-person shooter, survival horror, tower defense, and role-playing games.

Finally, they greatly support modders, which is the best way to extend the life of a game.

[James]

Originally posted by Roland:

Originally posted by Ankido:

Can you help me understand something here?

Maybe...

Are you honestly wanting to understand or was your question rhetorical and all the suppositions you shared are actually what you already believe to be the truth? I don't want to waste my time giving answers that will just be rejected because you've already made up your mind.

Short answer: They started as a very small studio with low to moderate goals. This is their first project and they experimented a lot with different systems and implementations of features. The game's huge success led them to set their sights higher and although they've increased the size of their team, they are by no means a large studio. Some of the things you've mentioned like UI are on the list to overhaul now that they have a dedicated art team but A20 and A21 were all about environmental art and assets and POI overhauling. Character animation and UI are both getting overhauled very soon.

Most importantly, thousands of players have been and are continuing to have fun with the game despite its incomplete status and nobody can claim the devs have abandoned it.

To be fair, you didn't really address anything. You just simply gave a quick spiel on the history of TFP and a bunch of other stuff that was completely off-subject.

Now, I understand you said you don't wanna waste time explaining it to someone with preconceived notions and are not willing to listen. And I truly get that --believe me I fight it everyday at work. But it also seems like you already have preconceived notions of the OP yourself and are not willing to listen either. Instead, it seems like you are more focused on trying to change the OP's mind instead of having a conversation about it.

So what is the OP supposed to do here in this situation?

I think what the OP said was valid IMO. I don't agree with all of it. But I can understand where he/she is coming from and he/she has a valid point. TFP has had no real direction on what they want.

[James]

I will say, for years, TFP had no real direction on what they wanted the game to be. But I do believe they do now because they wanna finish this game and get it over with.

This is going to come with compromises though. They can't implement everything they initially had envisioned for the game.

[Chuck]

Originally posted by Blue Hasia:

Oh, how absolutely dreadful it is that Minecraft keeps getting updated every year! I mean, ... they complain about all the updates we continue to get with 7d2d with relations to another game that is stated as finished but also gets major updates each year.

The difference being minecraft was a completed game that felt completed. Everything had an acceptable level of polish and everything felt consistent. Every additional update felt like a bonus to an already complete, consistent, and fun experience.

7d2d is unfinished (to their credit, they do not attempt to claim it is), and feels unfinished. Every update we get here isnt a bonus on a complete experience, it is just trying to get the game finished. Not to mention, the updates havent always been for the better, and sometimes introduce unpopular mechanics, which makes some updates feel like a negative update where people wouldve rather they just didnt update the game at all.

Not to mention, minecraft updates make the game feel like its fresh again. 7d2d, i would argue, does not. It still feels like a 10 year old game, because it is.

Im gonna compare this game with 2 other games, both are about the same age, and both have aged far better in my opinion. Project zomboid (oh boy), and war thunder. Ill start with war thunder.

War thunder 10 years ago, looks like a game made in 2013 (shocker). But today, it is absolutely beautiful. The graphics and gameplay (not the economy or the company making the game) have aged wonderfully. The UI looks better, the models look better, textures, damage animations, etc all look great. When i started playing, i had no idea it was such an old game. They frequently add new vehicles that consistently look very nice and detailed, which is what they always do.

Project zomboid 10 years ago, looks like a 20 year old game. It doesnt even look like the same game. Even zomboid like 3ish years ago still looked super dated. But now, things have changed. It looks a lot better, the animations are great and the game is fun. Everything looks consistent and has a more 'complete' feel. Not to mention the developers are good at keeping the community up to date with what theyre working on and the progress theyve made, with screenshots and test videos, giving the players something to get excited for.

I think the reason this subject keeps coming up is because:
1 Other games as old as this one have aged far better
2 The current 7d2d experience is very unpolished and inconsistent
3 People are unsatisfied with the games current place

Weve seen that games this old CAN look good and play well and age to the point where they seem like theyre just as modern as other games. This game does not feel like that has happened.

Having zombies look great with decent animations but having the player look awful with basically no animations, sucks. The lighting in this game is gorgeous sometimes, the textures can be good, but the nature surrounding these textures and lighting is hideous. It makes the game as a whole still ugly even though elements of its look have actually improved. In the other games i mentioned, the experience is consistent. Everything looks as good (or not good) as everything else.

And, yeah. Its a disappointing feeling, seeing that this game is somewhat empty of content, and then learning how long its been in EA. Alot of games are made from start to finish in less time than that. I think a lot of people were just expecting a little bit more.

I guess in conclusion, minecraft updates arent really comparable to 7d2d updates.

[James]

Originally posted by Mithrandir:

The number of zeds is a performance issue. I would also like more, but I want good FPS too.
The drone is non sensical like about 80 % of the content. Realism is obviously not the main priority of this game.

I just wanted to quickly clarify a few points here.

This game is being designed to work with PS4 and Xbox. The number of zombies is not a performance issue for the PC. It's a performance problem for older console players due to the hardware limitations and they are trying to implement crossplay.

Because of PS4 hardware/software limitations, compared to 2023 PC hardware, they are also limited to what they can do. This is one of many issues you run into when you take so long so develop a game. You have great ideas, but by the time you can actually implement them it's a little too late.

[Ankido]

Originally posted by Chuck:

Originally posted by Blue Hasia:

Oh, how absolutely dreadful it is that Minecraft keeps getting updated every year! I mean, ... they complain about all the updates we continue to get with 7d2d with relations to another game that is stated as finished but also gets major updates each year.

The difference being minecraft was a completed game that felt completed. Everything had an acceptable level of polish and everything felt consistent. Every additional update felt like a bonus to an already complete, consistent, and fun experience.

7d2d is unfinished (to their credit, they do not attempt to claim it is), and feels unfinished. Every update we get here isnt a bonus on a complete experience, it is just trying to get the game finished. Not to mention, the updates havent always been for the better, and sometimes introduce unpopular mechanics, which makes some updates feel like a negative update where people wouldve rather they just didnt update the game at all.

Not to mention, minecraft updates make the game feel like its fresh again. 7d2d, i would argue, does not. It still feels like a 10 year old game, because it is.

Im gonna compare this game with 2 other games, both are about the same age, and both have aged far better in my opinion. Project zomboid (oh boy), and war thunder. Ill start with war thunder.

War thunder 10 years ago, looks like a game made in 2013 (shocker). But today, it is absolutely beautiful. The graphics and gameplay (not the economy or the company making the game) have aged wonderfully. The UI looks better, the models look better, textures, damage animations, etc all look great. When i started playing, i had no idea it was such an old game. They frequently add new vehicles that consistently look very nice and detailed, which is what they always do.

Project zomboid 10 years ago, looks like a 20 year old game. It doesnt even look like the same game. Even zomboid like 3ish years ago still looked super dated. But now, things have changed. It looks a lot better, the animations are great and the game is fun. Everything looks consistent and has a more 'complete' feel. Not to mention the developers are good at keeping the community up to date with what theyre working on and the progress theyve made, with screenshots and test videos, giving the players something to get excited for.

I think the reason this subject keeps coming up is because:
1 Other games as old as this one have aged far better
2 The current 7d2d experience is very unpolished and inconsistent
3 People are unsatisfied with the games current place

Weve seen that games this old CAN look good and play well and age to the point where they seem like theyre just as modern as other games. This game does not feel like that has happened.

Having zombies look great with decent animations but having the player look awful with basically no animations, sucks. The lighting in this game is gorgeous sometimes, the textures can be good, but the nature surrounding these textures and lighting is hideous. It makes the game as a whole still ugly even though elements of its look have actually improved. In the other games i mentioned, the experience is consistent. Everything looks as good (or not good) as everything else.

And, yeah. Its a disappointing feeling, seeing that this game is somewhat empty of content, and then learning how long its been in EA. Alot of games are made from start to finish in less time than that. I think a lot of people were just expecting a little bit more.

I guess in conclusion, minecraft updates arent really comparable to 7d2d updates.

HOT DAMN!!! Talk about nailing it. My hero of the day.