Stealth is nearly useless in many POIs, 2 potential solutions

[Chuck]

I have found out that from exploring a lot of POIs, that stealth is kind of secondary to just having a gun with a lot of ammo. I think thats just because of the way little 'events' happen. My best example is on top of the general hospital, all of the zombies are laying down, the moment you get up there, they all immediately wake up and aggro onto you. Doesnt matter if you were super sneaky with no armor on and max sneaking perks, in the dark, they just wake up and insta aggro. This happens for zombies ontop of skylights or roof tiles that break when you get under them regardless of if the zombies above knew you were there too.

This makes stealth unhelpful. The amount of times ive been detected by a zombie(s) that i had no way of taking out before they could detect me is annoying. I propose two solutions.

1) Zombies no longer insta aggro due to events, but rather they become 'agitated'. They will roam the area near where they were initially. This way, you could still sneak away when they all become alert or still get stealth damage but still preserve the 'uh oh' feeling when ceiling tiles break and a bunch of zombies fall out, but still give the player a way to deal with the event rather than "I guess were fighting now", not to mention events that open a path through the POI can still trigger while allowing the player to stay in stealth.

2) Zombie triggers are tied to a different zombie. Going to the weak ceiling tile example, what if there was a zombie beneath the ceiling tiles, that if IT detects you, the ceiling tiles drop. That way, if you were able to deal with that zombie you wouldnt have to worry about the other ones just aggroing onto you. These 'trigger' zombies could then be placed in tricky or easy to miss spots so its still challenging to deal with, and it keeps these little events surprising.

Now, if im misunderstanding something about how these events trigger in POIs let me know, but i havent been able to sneak past most of them. These 2 potential solutions (suggestions) would make it to where events still pose a challenge and can be surprising but still let people use stealth in POIs.

[Niviria]

I agree with this.

[Pipann]

I don't know. I never get very far with this game but I've stealth killed many zombies in up to tier 3 POIs. I do however tend to enter the place via rooftop if possible, effectively going through the POI in reverse instead of using the 'correct entrance' that the devs seem to be wanting you to take. I'll use building blocks to my advantage. Sometimes scripted zombies do still get to do their thing as they only spawn in once entering a room.

That being said I'm not a hardcore player and I don't like scary games much so I'm not looking to be judged. I don't really care if that's not the 'right' way to do it, I call it the smart way. :)

I should really check out that hospital sometime, I bet I could stealth kill those rooftop zombies if I avoid getting on the roof myself.

[esthergray]

I took the hospital by nerd poling up on the rooftop just below the one they are on. I would use a bow and crouch , this would help me take out almost half of them without waking the rest up. When the rest wake up I take out a gun and go to town. Now having said that, I never took on a tier 4 or 5 until I had good guns. I could have mowed them down from the start but it was more fun to try and take as many as possible out before waking the others up.

[Pipann]

Originally posted by esthergray:

I took the hospital by nerd poling up on the rooftop just below the one they are on. I would use a bow and crouch , this would help me take out almost half of them without waking the rest up. When the rest wake up I take out a gun and go to town. Now having said that, I never took on a tier 4 or 5 until I had good guns. I could have mowed them down from the start but it was more fun to try and take as many as possible out before waking the others up.

Yeah, I think stealth kills and playing it smart has its own 'fun-value'. Though it would seem the devs disagree on that and end up nerfing those things to ruin the fun for players of our type. Luckily we have mods to ruin their fun too.

[SylenThunder]

Originally posted by Pipann:

Originally posted by esthergray:

I took the hospital by nerd poling up on the rooftop just below the one they are on. I would use a bow and crouch , this would help me take out almost half of them without waking the rest up. When the rest wake up I take out a gun and go to town. Now having said that, I never took on a tier 4 or 5 until I had good guns. I could have mowed them down from the start but it was more fun to try and take as many as possible out before waking the others up.

Yeah, I think stealth kills and playing it smart has its own 'fun-value'. Though it would seem the devs disagree on that and end up nerfing those things to ruin the fun for players of our type. Luckily we have mods to ruin their fun too.

The problem with "stealth", was that is was way too OP. In a game where the developers never want you to feel safe, being able to nuke a top-tier POI with little effort just by being sneaky defeats the objectivity of the game.

I mean let's look at it this way. Before you could take a literal level one character with a wood bow and some stone arrows and put a single point into stealth. With only that you could take out an entire T5 POI in about an hour and take all of the loot freely. Where is the challenge there? Where is the danger?

Now is it perfect? No. They really need to fix the zeds spawning out of thin air right in front of you on the current triggers. It is a step in the right direction for fixing the sneak mechanic. You shouldn't be 100% invisible anywhere.

[Pipann]

Originally posted by SylenThunder:

Originally posted by Pipann:

Yeah, I think stealth kills and playing it smart has its own 'fun-value'. Though it would seem the devs disagree on that and end up nerfing those things to ruin the fun for players of our type. Luckily we have mods to ruin their fun too.

The problem with "stealth", was that is was way too OP. In a game where the developers never want you to feel safe, being able to nuke a top-tier POI with little effort just by being sneaky defeats the objectivity of the game.

I mean let's look at it this way. Before you could take a literal level one character with a wood bow and some stone arrows and put a single point into stealth. With only that you could take out an entire T5 POI in about an hour and take all of the loot freely. Where is the challenge there? Where is the danger?

Now is it perfect? No. They really need to fix the zeds spawning out of thin air right in front of you on the current triggers. It is a step in the right direction for fixing the sneak mechanic. You shouldn't be 100% invisible anywhere.

That's completely fair. But I don't think I'd play the game anymore personally if they continued to beat stealth down into the dirt and forced me to engage zombies directly at every turn and take on jumpscare after jumpscare. Even if stealth is less effective, there should be the possibility to choose one's playstyle. Here's hoping the A21 update delivers on that with the armor reveals.

[Chuck]

Originally posted by Pipann:

I do however tend to enter the place via rooftop if possible, effectively going through the POI in reverse instead of using the 'correct entrance' that the devs seem to be wanting you to take.

I agree and if something looks like an obvious trap i always try to avoid it. Glass on the ceiling with zombies on it? im hugging the walls now.

It feels like its in spite of the game though rather than what the devs want you to do. Like youre abusing a poorly made POI system rather than skillfully clearing a location.

Originally posted by SylenThunder:

is it perfect? No. They really need to fix the zeds spawning out of thin air right in front of you on the current triggers. It is a step in the right direction for fixing the sneak mechanic. You shouldn't be 100% invisible anywhere.

So whats even the point of having perks that make you sneakier if there are zombies that will guarantee see you? Why buy those perks if sometimes the game decides you do not get to sneak anymore? They might as well just make me randomly stand up and shout at the top of my lungs. I would rather they just remove stealth entirely than have a few perks that make you better at sneaking only to sometimes make them completely useless. It makes those perks feel like noob traps for wasted points (a noob trap that I fell into apparently).

Solution 1 would fix this. It adds tension and can make it easy to mess up and get spotted while still letting your stealth perks help you when these events trigger. Imagine youre sneaking through a store and the ceiling tiles cave in and now there are patrolling, agitated zombies wandering around. Sneaking just got much more intense and difficult, though you CAN still be sneaky.

[Butthead]

i've thought about this for a while, and honestly with zero points into sneaking and stealth, i still can stealth in POIs just by sneaking into the front door and sniping any zombies I can see. so even for the few times I can utilize it because of either jankiness or the bare minimum stealth, I wouldn't benefit from the wasted points in that skill. And just like Sylenthunder said, if it was actually good it would just make everything a cake walk. So maybe in the future they can figure out a good compromise.

[Chuck]

yes, some POIs you can clear with stealth easily like most of the houses, but i feel that the larger and more dangerous POIs force you to fight through them, and completely make stealth useless.

The top of the hospital and the bookstore HQ are 2 examples that ive recently experienced.

I have put forward my ideas of a compromise. Ideas that make stealth better but not easy.

It is just dumb to have a mechanic that sucks, and perks that you can put into said mechanic that dont make it better because the game decided when you get to use that mechanic or not. Stealth should actually be good, and locations should be difficult without relying on literally just dropping zombies on your head or zombies that break out of pockets in the wall that you had no possible way of taking care of quietly.

I am at a part in the game where im taking on more dangerous POIs and with every single one i go to i basically never get to sneak because of the events that trigger, making the 6 perk points i spent in stealth related skills completely useless.

[Dogmilk]

I was thinking about this as well

stealth isn't useless for specific POIs, it's useless in certain scripted areas of those POIs.


maybe you shouldn't be able to stealth everything; if you're able to stealth 90% of those POIs you've saved a load of ammo and medical gear for when you do actually have to fight

[Dogmilk]

off the top of my head there's one area in the basement of the hospital and one at the end on the roof

one at the end of the bookstore

one near the end of the gun factory (button gate)

it's mostly just the last areas of the top POIs

[Chuck]

Two bit tower.

Every single room.


I would be ok with these events still happening, i think some of them are pretty cool. The top of the hospital caused me to get into a running fight back down the entire length of the hospital. It was fun.

But i think they happen too much. Its not that im upset i cant stealth 10% of the POIs, im upset i cant stealth 70% of the major POIs.

And i think the compromises i put in the initial post of this are a solution. Events still happen but there is a way, even if difficult, to stay in stealth.

[Dogmilk]

oh lol the corrections facility, I think infest 6 there is the most zombie-dense POI of all

[Chuck]

This wouldnt be a big deal to me if there werent 2 stealth related perks to invest in. If there were no stealth perks it would be understood that stealth is more of a niche side feature than something they want you to use.

But adding perks to this mechanic makes me feel like its supposed to be more useful than i really find it is.

Now all i can do is save on dukes to get the forget'n elixir so i can reinvest those points into perks that arent garbage.

[Mithrandir]

Good thread considering some A21 new POI situation.

For my part, I would be ok with being able to save ammo by stealth killing 50-75 % or more of a POI zeds. I can deal with some part of a POI being impossible to stealth.

I rather like the final loot room battle in T4-5 POIs.

But, what I find impossible to accept are the new drop triggered room where you don't even see one zed anywhere, and as soon as you hit the floor trigger, they all appear from nowhere around you, like they teleported or were invisible (not even behind a false wall/roof/floor) and attack from close range. That's not challenge for me, that's a lazy trap to insta kill all light armored stealth builds. I no longer try to stealth any new A21 POI because I like to play permadeath, so yes, those have killed stealth for me.

At least on the last hospital roof, a stealth build can see them way before aggroing them, they're there sleeping so you can prepare, change gear, use consumables or set mines and auto-turrets or other defenses. Then start the fight on your terms.