SMG-5 should be compatible with the retracting stock mod

[Johnny John Johnson]

It's got a stock like other automatic weapons, it should accept this mod especially since an agility skill is about hip-fire accuracy.

[Shurenai]

I would argue that the agility tree is about agile accuracy; The fortitude tree is more about hip fire accuracy, with it's top tier weapon basically being an LMG perfect for spray and pray into a group, and it's mode of fire and accuracy basically rendering unwieldly for aimed accuracy.

[Johnny John Johnson]

Originally posted by Shurenai:

I would argue that the agility tree is about agile accuracy; The fortitude tree is more about hip fire accuracy, with it's top tier weapon basically being an LMG perfect for spray and pray into a group, and it's mode of fire and accuracy basically rendering unwieldly for aimed accuracy.

That's true but agility's "Run and Gun" skill also improves hip fire accuracy.

[Nebgama]

SMG are handguns IRL though sure we are talking about a game but they are handguns in the game too they are also under the agility tree which makes sense because they are supposed to be lightweight and nimble with little to no recoil.

Not having the retract stock is kind of a misnomer on a gun like this one, the one in the game would be similar to like a MP5 or vector or UMP or something which all have folding stocks and shoot 9mm.

Submachine guns would of been some of the first guns to make the folding stock because of their versatile nature. You want a controlled shot you need a stock but you want to run around shot people close quarters in confined or limited space then take the stock off.

I know this does not equate to game but it is how it works with the real counter part.

[william_es]

Originally posted by Nebgama:

SMG are handguns IRL t

Submachine guns are not handguns, they are submachine guns. it's a whole separate class.

Submachine guns are essentially fully automatic firearms chambered for pistol rounds. That's why they have the "sub" in front of machine gun. But they're not hand guns.

[Limdood]

Originally posted by Shurenai:

I would argue that the agility tree is about agile accuracy; The fortitude tree is more about hip fire accuracy, with it's top tier weapon basically being an LMG perfect for spray and pray into a group, and it's mode of fire and accuracy basically rendering unwieldly for aimed accuracy.

The agility tree is absolutely about hipfire accuracy. But the agility tree works towards near pinpoint perfect hipfire accuracy, while the endurance weapons just go for "good enough"

Notably, NONE of the endurance skills seem to improve accuracy, and the guns aren't accurate to begin with, while agility has a skill devoted to hipfire accuracy and the key feature of pistols in 90% of games which feature different weapon types is that pistols have better hipfire accuracy, which in 7d, carries over to the SMG.

That being said, the SMG can already use a muzzle brake, reflex sight, laser pointer, and foregrip, so hipfire accuracy isn't really that big a concern with all the other tools you have (though foregrip feels a lot more out of place than a retracting stock...)

[DrLamp]

Originally posted by william_es:

Originally posted by Nebgama:

SMG are handguns IRL t

Submachine guns are not handguns, they are submachine guns. it's a whole separate class.

Submachine guns are essentially fully automatic firearms chambered for pistol rounds. That's why they have the "sub" in front of machine gun. But they're not hand guns.

^this

[Pain Weasel]

Originally posted by Johnny John Johnson:

It's got a stock like other automatic weapons, it should accept this mod especially since an agility skill is about hip-fire accuracy.

I think there are 2 options:

1) just assume the retractable stock is built in. It can't accept the mod because it already has one.

2) just edit the xml (or make a small modlet). Just adding the word "stock" to it's Tags property will allow you to put that mod on an SMG.

[Bert]

Originally posted by Shurenai:

I would argue that the agility tree is about agile accuracy; The fortitude tree is more about hip fire accuracy, with it's top tier weapon basically being an LMG perfect for spray and pray into a group, and it's mode of fire and accuracy basically rendering unwieldly for aimed accuracy.

In what weired world the M60 is considered a LMG?

(Not to mention that assault rifles are considered machine guns in this game *sight*)

[restarter]

Originally posted by bert w.:

Originally posted by Shurenai:

I would argue that the agility tree is about agile accuracy; The fortitude tree is more about hip fire accuracy, with it's top tier weapon basically being an LMG perfect for spray and pray into a group, and it's mode of fire and accuracy basically rendering unwieldly for aimed accuracy.

In what weired world the M60 is considered a LMG?

(Not to mention that assault rifles are considered machine guns in this game *sight*)

here we go with pronouns. the m60 is a LMG according to navyseal.com. The common vernacular considers anything that has a fully automatic function as being a machine gun. Historically guns were cannons and rifles were small arms. I subscribe to Ar-15 as being an assault weapon because of how it is designed even though they are not fully automatic. Are they suitable for combat in a setting where people carry FA guns? No but it is still used to assault a group of people and its intended use is to fire quickly, and accurately with the ability to quickly exchange clips and it is light giving the user the ability to move quickly. Perfect for guerrilla combat. I would also add that my stepdad being an airborne ranger in vietnam very rarely went to burst. He said you want to conserve ammo not waste it. FA is for movies. Maybe its different now but that's how it was back in the day

[Nebgama]

Originally posted by william_es:

Originally posted by Nebgama:

SMG are handguns IRL t

Submachine guns are not handguns, they are submachine guns. it's a whole separate class.

Submachine guns are essentially fully automatic firearms chambered for pistol rounds. That's why they have the "sub" in front of machine gun. But they're not hand guns.

They totally are handguns dude automatic one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submachine_gun

Excerpt:

A submachine gun (SMG) is a magazine-fed automatic carbine designed to fire handgun cartridges.

Some of the first submachine guns were actual pistols and they wanted a automatic pistol that was the point, and they are guns that shoot pistol calibers.

MP5K is a machine pistol and there is plenty of other examples of ones that have stocks which are still pistiols and the term sub machine gun means exactly that because its a sub category of automatic fire guns. Carbine fits better for anything bigger than a pistol but eh it was a generalization anyway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_pistol

The only reason why many of them are bigger than handgun size is because they are dangerous if they are not. Go look at a Uzi shoot its dangerous af.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxLM6RMajGQ

[MoistGamer]

Oooo the gun experts are all here! This is exciting. Good read over lunch.

[restarter]

Originally posted by MoistGamer:

Oooo the gun experts are all here! This is exciting. Good read over lunch.

It is funny how this subject turns so many people into pedants who could care less about the grammar that accompanies their impressive displays of knowledge. I don't even own a gun and I had to get in on it. Now let's talk about race cars.

[JimmyIowa]

Originally posted by restarter:

Now let's talk about race cars.

It's race "vehicles". Not all of them are cars. You obviously don't know jack about America's greatest sport, noob.

[JimmyIowa]

^^^^^^^
That was a joke, poking fun at the gun discussion, not the person I replied to. Please don't have 12 aneurysms while tossing magazines into a duffle bag and trying to find my real life address. Thanks.

[restarter]

Originally posted by JimmyIowa:

^^^^^^^
That was a joke, poking fun at the gun discussion, not the person I replied to. Please don't have 12 aneurysms while tossing magazines into a duffle bag and trying to find my real life address. Thanks.

hmmmm ok im assuming Iowa is the place of residence...now let's see his name is Jimmy...ok that's a start..... Now to stuff this dufflebag full of cupcakes. I'll show him!