Game need zombie levels

[Kauldric]

Game is still too easy. As you get better gear, it becomes trivially easy to kill zombies. Even with the higher concentration of tougher zombies in the wasteland, with feral zombies, radiated. They just can’t stand up to a pump high tier high quality weapon with near infinite ammo from crafting thousands of bullets.

The difficulty sliders is not balanced properly. Easy difficulties means within 1-3 days you can trivially kill anything even at night. With insane difficulty the early game can be quite challenging but this fades as you get higher yoeer stuff, which happens quite fast.

There are a few simple solutions here of which the simplest is to level up zombies with game stage (or something like gear score). Alternatively, have zombie difficulty multiplier on a per biome basis, or both.

The other solutions, but much more expensive to implement and not as good:
- massively limit ammo (prepare for immense complaint storm). But this won’t work anyways since certain melee weapons at high tier and perk level are absolutely overpowered, without zombie levels
-way more zombies, but this limited by real physical limits of the engine / player computers
- add new, even harder zombie types. But yeah this is not gonna happen.


I’m open to other, realistic, simple suggestions for how to make the game scale up for longer without becoming boring, or insanely hard early game.

[ElDudorino]

You ever play the Darkness Falls mod? It adds a lot of zombie varieties. The tougher zombies will wreck an unprepared player, e.g. me the first time I dipped a toe into the wasteland.

[HardRock]

I agree. While weapons are leveling, enemies remain the same. Its two mutually exclusive game mechanics in one game. Either weapons should be fixed, like in classic FPS games or enemies should become stronger over time. But stronger enemies will break blocks faster and structures will become new weak point in balance.

[Kauldric]

Originally posted by HardRock:

I agree. While weapons are leveling, enemies remain the same. Its two mutually exclusive game mechanics in one game. Either weapons should be fixed, like in classic FPS games or enemies should become stronger over time. But stronger enemies will break blocks faster and structures will become new weak point in balance.

Level doesn’t need to upscale block damage

[MiSFiT77]

I suppose it comes down to what people want and expect. Personally I'm not a fan of the harder level zombies like the radiated ones or that annoying little guy who jumps at you. It's nothing to do with being able to deal with them, but because I like a George Romero type Zombie, shambling about. And I guess I'm looking for a slightly boring existence (grind) I'm able to fabricate that somewhat by turning off zombies run. Inevitably by playing this way it's my own boredom and complacency that usually gets me killed. Either that or falling out of a gyrocopter (done that twice). But yeh I do get that for people wanting the bad guy difficulty to increase parallel to their skill level, this game doesn't provide it.

[Kauldric]

Originally posted by ElDudorino:

You ever play the Darkness Falls mod? It adds a lot of zombie varieties. The tougher zombies will wreck an unprepared player, e.g. me the first time I dipped a toe into the wasteland.

Haven’t but it’s no my todo list if/when the game releases and stops evolving (note: not looking forward to that).

My post is about what the game needs, not looking for workarounds. Sorry.

[Kauldric]

Originally posted by MiSFiT77:

I suppose it comes down to what people want and expect. Personally I'm not a fan of the harder level zombies like the radiated ones or that annoying little guy who jumps at you. It's nothing to do with being able to deal with them, but because I like a George Romero type Zombie, shambling about. And I guess I'm looking for a slightly boring existence (grind) I'm able to fabricate that somewhat by turning off zombies run. Inevitably by playing this way it's my own boredom and complacency that usually gets me killed. Either that or falling out of a gyrocopter (done that twice). But yeh I do get that for people wanting the bad guy difficulty to increase parallel to their skill level, this game doesn't provide it.

TFP made a game that is actively trying to murder you, albeit having removed boring so-called survival mechanics. The game actively punished you with a fairly hash death penalty, so you go slow.

Therefore. The game as currently stands seems at odds with the very design principles of said game.

Therefore, the game needs zombie levels or something else to balance it as the player levels uo their gear and perks.

[FreakyFish]

Originally posted by Kauldric:

Originally posted by ElDudorino:

You ever play the Darkness Falls mod? It adds a lot of zombie varieties. The tougher zombies will wreck an unprepared player, e.g. me the first time I dipped a toe into the wasteland.

Haven’t but it’s no my todo list if/when the game releases and stops evolving (note: not looking forward to that).

My post is about what the game needs, not looking for workarounds. Sorry.

This post isn't about what the game needs, it is about what the game needs /in your opinion/

[Greymantle]

The game has become easier and easier with each version. Your only option is mods sad to say.

[Cliffy]

Originally posted by Kauldric:

Game is still too easy. As you get better gear, it becomes trivially easy to kill zombies. Even with the higher concentration of tougher zombies in the wasteland, with feral zombies, radiated. They just can’t stand up to a pump high tier high quality weapon with near infinite ammo from crafting thousands of bullets.

The difficulty sliders is not balanced properly. Easy difficulties means within 1-3 days you can trivially kill anything even at night. With insane difficulty the early game can be quite challenging but this fades as you get higher yoeer stuff, which happens quite fast.

There are a few simple solutions here of which the simplest is to level up zombies with game stage (or something like gear score). Alternatively, have zombie difficulty multiplier on a per biome basis, or both.

The other solutions, but much more expensive to implement and not as good:
- massively limit ammo (prepare for immense complaint storm). But this won’t work anyways since certain melee weapons at high tier and perk level are absolutely overpowered, without zombie levels
-way more zombies, but this limited by real physical limits of the engine / player computers
- add new, even harder zombie types. But yeah this is not gonna happen.


I’m open to other, realistic, simple suggestions for how to make the game scale up for longer without becoming boring, or insanely hard early game.

Do you ever play on different difficultys or play a bit with the settings for the zombies ?
And how ElDudorino says, maybe try Darknessfalls or Undead Legacy.

[bumbaclad]

Last version I heard people say it is too easy often yet they died way more than I did. People often adopt opinions to validate their opinion they adopted. No offense, I don't know you, this post just made me think back to when I used to read reddit before stopping to avoid catching the zombie virus.

"Hey, this game is too easy" as they unload all of their ammo into a zombie bear just to die.

[Kauldric]

Originally posted by MiSFiT77:

Originally posted by Kauldric:

TFP made a game that is actively trying to murder you, albeit having removed boring so-called survival mechanics. The game actively punished you with a fairly hash death penalty, so you go slow.

Therefore. The game as currently stands seems at odds with the very design principles of said game.

Therefore, the game needs zombie levels or something else to balance it as the player levels uo their gear and perks.

I disagree. I play death means death and it's always my own dumb mistakes that finally kill me. I don't believe the zombies should get better skills as I get better kit because they are Zombies. By that logic you may as well give them guns.

I agree that zombies randomly leveling up with you can break immersion; there is a balance between immersion and gameplay. Obviously a zombie game is already not going to be “realistic”. :)

That’s also why I said the leveling can be biomed based, as well as based on the tier of a POI.

[Kauldric]

Originally posted by Cliffy:

Originally posted by Kauldric:

Game is still too easy. As you get better gear, it becomes trivially easy to kill zombies. Even with the higher concentration of tougher zombies in the wasteland, with feral zombies, radiated. They just can’t stand up to a pump high tier high quality weapon with near infinite ammo from crafting thousands of bullets.

The difficulty sliders is not balanced properly. Easy difficulties means within 1-3 days you can trivially kill anything even at night. With insane difficulty the early game can be quite challenging but this fades as you get higher yoeer stuff, which happens quite fast.

There are a few simple solutions here of which the simplest is to level up zombies with game stage (or something like gear score). Alternatively, have zombie difficulty multiplier on a per biome basis, or both.

The other solutions, but much more expensive to implement and not as good:
- massively limit ammo (prepare for immense complaint storm). But this won’t work anyways since certain melee weapons at high tier and perk level are absolutely overpowered, without zombie levels
-way more zombies, but this limited by real physical limits of the engine / player computers
- add new, even harder zombie types. But yeah this is not gonna happen.


I’m open to other, realistic, simple suggestions for how to make the game scale up for longer without becoming boring, or insanely hard early game.

Do you ever play on different difficultys or play a bit with the settings for the zombies ?
And how ElDudorino says, maybe try Darknessfalls or Undead Legacy.

Usually on Insane. I tried zombies always run but then it makes the game boring, since there is. Indifference between night and day.

Insane on wasteland only is definitely hard and super fun for the first 7 days or so. Then zombies quickly become too easy.

[MiSFiT77]

Originally posted by Kauldric:

Originally posted by MiSFiT77:

I disagree. I play death means death and it's always my own dumb mistakes that finally kill me. I don't believe the zombies should get better skills as I get better kit because they are Zombies. By that logic you may as well give them guns.

I agree that zombies randomly leveling up with you can break immersion; there is a balance between immersion and gameplay. Obviously a zombie game is already not going to be “realistic”. :)

That’s also why I said the leveling can be biomed based, as well as based on the tier of a POI.

Yeh it's always going to be difficult getting it right. All the game options (run, walk, run at night, block damage etc) give us the option to personalise the game. Which is great. The downside is that one players fix for a particular problem often breaks the game or causes problems for another player. Personally I wish there were a "Zombies only" option where players can opt into the Romero/Walking dead type game ie no mutants, zombie dogs or screaming death parrots. I fully respect that for many this would be utterly boring as it has no end, or point, other than a tedious grind towards an inevitable death. Not for everyone. So yeh I get that some folks enjoy working towards something ie defeating a boss Zombie or completing an end quest. So I think my point is (for me) there are no games that give me 100% the game I want, but I suspect for many ppl 7 Days is the game that comes closest.

Edit: I know that you can edit Zombies in or out using one of the games config files, can't remember which one, but I've done it before.

And. Coming back to your initial question asking for ideas. Maybe if the game had a conclusion. Without a goal the game is and always will be a grind to nowhere, no matter how you play or what kind of Zombies you like or dislike. The conclusion is always the same, either you die (and if you play death means death) thats the end. Or you inevitably get bored because there's nothing left to achieve. I have an 8 block thick concrete base surrounded by machine gun turrets. I have a box full of blue and pink level machine guns, most of which I don't use. I have 3 crates full of ammo. I have a Motorbike and a Jeep. Time to stop playing. Maybe the answer is a conclusion. Maybe Evac missions every month (so 30 days or so). Getting bored of the game, the end of the month is coming up, I'll play until then, head for the rendevouz point and take the rescue boat/chopper whatever out of here.

[MiSFiT77]

Yeh I did say I've done that before. I even replaced all vultures with chickens.

[thestile]

If zombies toughness levels with my guns, then getting better guns doesn't really matter because the zombies leveled right beside them. Assuming it's a linear system of increase between the guns and zombies, my weapon upgrades would have the illusion of being more powerful as I progress.
I wouldn't mind tougher and different enemies later, like the Demolishers, but I wouldn't want the same old zombies to just be progressively better, aside from the feral and irradiated versions.
An armor nerf along with increased zombie speed would be pretty good for getting the player killed. If that is the goal?