Spears still suck. But have sledgehammers surpassed clubs??

[ElDudorino]

Now I could be wrong, but my understanding is that Flurry of Blows didn't affect sledgehammers and they do have a speed-increasing skill now. In a20 even without a speed booster there were people who thought sledges were the best weapon. Now, obviously those people were wrong and are to be pitied. But if sledgehammers now have a speed-increasing skill, does that make them more effective than they were in a20 and does it finally bridge the gap so that they're better than clubs despite not giving infinite stamina like clubs do? Or am I mistaken in thinking they've been buffed / am I missing an equivalent buff to clubs that keeps them in the lead?

[Shurenai]

I think you have your favorite weapon(clubs) and just don't think anything else is even close for your preferred playstyle. :P

Cause like.. A large portion of the playerbase thinks Sledgehammers are absolutely THE BEST weapon in the game hands down it's not even a question and the second place contender is the iron sledgehammer, and third place contender is the stone sledgehammer.

And I personally think you're ALL crazy for not giving enough love to fist weapons. We all have our favorite.

[Raemnant]

I dunno man, when I can power attack a zombie with my spear and slice the top half of their head clean off, I'm thinking its working pretty well

[Darkwolfe]

The stamina to damage ratio is still worse on spears than any other weapon. Including sledge. And that's not even factoring power attacks on some weapons doing aoe damage.

Sledge is better than it was due to the stamina gain in that perk now. But still out-paced by clubs as they (for some unknown reason) still do not have bonuses from books for sledge, while they do for clubs. Slowing zombies, less wear on clubs, ragdoll, less stamina while sprinting (all from books for clubs only), and the completion set is where clubs leave sledges in the dust late-game.

So while sledges are improved, clubs get all the same perks as sledges, but have added perks from books.

[maeharaprojekt]

Originally posted by Shurenai:

I think you have your favorite weapon(clubs) and just don't think anything else is even close for your preferred playstyle. :P

Cause like.. A large portion of the playerbase thinks Sledgehammers are absolutely THE BEST weapon in the game hands down it's not even a question and the second place contender is the iron sledgehammer, and third place contender is the stone sledgehammer.

And I personally think you're ALL crazy for not giving enough love to fist weapons. We all have our favorite.

You are welcome to your opinion but, clearly, the Tier 6 bone knife is best!

(I keed! I keed!)

[maeharaprojekt]

Originally posted by Raemnant:

I dunno man, when I can power attack a zombie with my spear and slice the top half of their head clean off, I'm thinking its working pretty well

In my own save, so far, two zombie faces have exploded, leaving the rest of the head intact. My first was with leather knuckle-wraps and the second face got squished by my pipe baton. Alpha 21 is now my favorite alpha, just because of the wider application of the new dismemberment mechanic.

[Defektiv]

I have used sledgehammers since they were in the game. Once you get the timing down and have the stamina tank to swing it its second to none. My previous game was so high in gamestage that almost every enemy was green and a q6 steel sledge would still one shot most of them. Even green cops would go down in 2-3 head shots, and would stagger between them.

This run I'm using spears for the first time they're not bad. The power attack is pretty nice for checking a hard charger and it gets the job done. But I've never been able to get into clubs, including in this run. Every time I try I want to get into anything else instead.

[Amins]

Sledges are absolutely the best weapon early game. But once you are up to steel tier and have the ability to allocate a few points into either, it starts to become debatable. Sledges will always do the most damage, but steel clubs do enough to kill most normal zombies in one or two shots, they can easily knock enemies to the floor, and are much more wieldy. But now that sledges have that speed boost, maybe that is a thing of the past.

Also, yes Shurenai, punching things is just the funnest thing ever! I doesn't matter what is "good" as long as it's fun to use.

[ElDudorino]

Originally posted by Shurenai:

Cause like.. A large portion of the playerbase thinks Sledgehammers are absolutely THE BEST weapon in the game hands down it's not even a question and the second place contender is the iron sledgehammer, and third place contender is the stone sledgehammer.

Right, I addressed those confused individuals. Mechanically, clubs were the best melee in a20 because that's just how it is. Clubs were better at crowd control, better DPS against multiple zombies, and give infinite stamina. Doesn't mean sledges weren't fun, mind you.

The advantage came down to speed and stamina, though. And it seems like the speed advantage has been diminished. So, does anyone who played clubs before find themselves playing sledge now? Is it the new go-to for optimal zombie re-killing?

Side note: So the new half-decapitations are new, right? My first thought when I knocked off only half of Darlene's head, right above the jaw, was "How did I never see this before?" But I guess I just missed that that's one of the new a21 additions. It is pretty magnificent.

[seven]

I like the perk (I think it was one of the books) where with a power attack you hit the zombie. and the one behind it.

[Defektiv]

One bonus to using a sledgehammer that I find myself missing now that I'm using something else, is their ability after you're skilled up in them to double as a demo tool. Most doors, wood and weaker walls will break in 1-2 hits.

[Shrez]

Originally posted by Darkwolfe:

The stamina to damage ratio is still worse on spears than any other weapon. Including sledge. And that's not even factoring power attacks on some weapons doing aoe damage.

That's the price for much range and ARP!

[ElDudorino]

What's "ARP?"

The range advantage from spears is of questionable utility. It's good if you're on top of a wall and hitting enemies from out of reach but if you're in a building it's not very useful. They don't damage enemies fast enough and don't stun them the way clubs and sledges do so they just walk through your attacks and hit you, especially if there's more than one. The first thing I tried in a21 was spears but they just felt utterly ineffective. Like knives but without the bleed or sneak bonus.

[admos]

Spears are a lot better now. They're comparable to clubs.

The difference being spears can't do glancing blows and require a lot of accuracy, and it can also pierce.

Spears are better for a player if they're accurate, clubs are better if the player can't aim well.

Also, sledgehammers have been top tier ever since A19 or whenever they added stone sledges.

[vera32_2000]

Originally posted by Raemnant:

I dunno man, when I can power attack a zombie with my spear and slice the top half of their head clean off, I'm thinking its working pretty well

It works with every weapon. I never use sledgehammer - too slow, needs too much stamina, spear is not bad, just not my thing.

[MiSFiT77]

Sledgies all the way. And with this new book system I had a level 3 stone sledgie by day 3. Level 5 stone sledgie by day 7. I'm one hitting lots of the weaker zombies. Bikers not a problem. One rock to repair. The only weapon I really use until I get good guns and the ability to craft ammo and powder. Then it's run and gun.