What are your thoughts on the new skill system?

[Savvy Imposter]

I feel like the new system is the lazy approach to draw-out the start... Some of the perks, like Master Chef, Advanced Engineering, Grease Monkey, Physician, Living Off the Land, Demolition Expert, feel obsolete. Replacing Sexual Tyrannosaurus for individual perks seems too much build oriented (if you can attack faster with a club, you can attack faster with a stun baton imo).

I don't know... but in general it feels like the skill system is a mess. It relies too much on RNG It could require hours of grinding until you can even craft a bicycle. I like the idea of reading books to make you better at something, like increasing crafting quality of something, as it is generally the case. But practically, in a video game, it feels forced and unrealistic, almost an obstacle to gameplay rather than an extension of it.

I'll wait and see how the game will develop from now on. I'll sit this one out until the next skill update, or until I find a good mod that reworks the skill system.

[Psilo]

i dislike how weapon skills now require 10 points to make effective, which means that in a normal game it is more than twice as hard as before to use multiple melee weapon types in a playthrough

[Defektiv]

Feels more refined. Pulling out crafting tiers from the other systems and giving them their own sort of system does two things that improve the experience imo. It gives you an early game option to acquire better stone tools to craft quickly enough to have it matter for establishing somewhere to prepare for horde night. And it also gives you a real reason to farm magazines if you want to make the higher tier tools.

Having everything tied to the leveling system was ok, but it took forever to level high enough to be able to craft the good stuff if you also wanted to specialize in something else.

[Savvy Imposter]

Originally posted by Defektiv:

Feels more refined. Pulling out crafting tiers from the other systems and giving them their own sort of system does two things that improve the experience imo. It gives you an early game option to acquire better stone tools to craft quickly enough to have it matter for establishing somewhere to prepare for horde night. And it also gives you a real reason to farm magazines if you want to make the higher tier tools.

Having everything tied to the leveling system was ok, but it took forever to level high enough to be able to craft the good stuff if you also wanted to specialize in something else.

It's true it removes the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ level-based requirement to unlock better weapons or tools quality earlier on. It may be the best upgrade from the past versions.

Getting enough books to get to high-end weapons still feels like a chore. Luckily enough you receive more books of the perks you specialise in. However you're still stuck with level grinding, AND book grinding, if you want to specialise in more than one type of weapon.

[ElDudorino]

I hated crafting being tied into perks before and like that it's tied into a skill you level by playing now, but having to constantly read a trillion books is kind of irritating. I basically just auto-read everything I see to speed it along but that means I also end up reading books that I'd rather have sold to buy water filters.

[Savvy Imposter]

Originally posted by ElDudorino:

I hated crafting being tied into perks before and like that it's tied into a skill you level by playing now, but having to constantly read a trillion books is kind of irritating. I basically just auto-read everything I see to speed it along but that means I also end up reading books that I'd rather have sold to buy water filters.

Crafting was not exclusively tied to skills before... Reading books to gain new skills was already a thing in the a20. You could get a book that taught you how to make shotguns and stuff. Unlocking the perk allowed you to make better shotguns, as well as increasing shotgun proficiency. And we're not even talking about those 7 magazines you could get to get even better with a certain skill/weapon.

I don't see how making you read thousands of books changes anything. It makes the already tedious grind even more tedious.

[Vi-El]

Originally posted by Savvy Imposter:

Originally posted by ElDudorino:

I hated crafting being tied into perks before and like that it's tied into a skill you level by playing now, but having to constantly read a trillion books is kind of irritating. I basically just auto-read everything I see to speed it along but that means I also end up reading books that I'd rather have sold to buy water filters.

Crafting was not exclusively tied to skills before... Reading books to gain new skills was already a thing in the a20. You could get a book that taught you how to make shotguns and stuff. Unlocking the perk allowed you to make better shotguns, as well as increasing shotgun proficiency. And we're not even talking about those 7 magazines you could get to get even better with a certain skill/weapon.

I don't see how making you read thousands of books changes anything. It makes the already tedious grind even more tedious.

Yes and that was the main issue in A20. It felt so underwhelming to find books, it wasnt neccesary. You could skip out on literally all books present or dont skill and in turn only use books. There was an either or but no inbetween cause eventually youd have to skill in that very perk that the book unlocks crafting for anyways.

In turn this system is more intuitive but is far more grindy. Numbers need to be punched down to make it fun instead of a grindfest.

[optOut]

I dig it, but I also think I'd enjoy it more with half the amount of book/magazine drops.

[Savvy Imposter]

Originally posted by Black Puppet:

Originally posted by Savvy Imposter:

Crafting was not exclusively tied to skills before... Reading books to gain new skills was already a thing in the a20. You could get a book that taught you how to make shotguns and stuff. Unlocking the perk allowed you to make better shotguns, as well as increasing shotgun proficiency. And we're not even talking about those 7 magazines you could get to get even better with a certain skill/weapon.

I don't see how making you read thousands of books changes anything. It makes the already tedious grind even more tedious.

Yes and that was the main issue in A20. It felt so underwhelming to find books, it wasnt neccesary. You could skip out on literally all books present or dont skill and in turn only use books. There was an either or but no inbetween cause eventually youd have to skill in that very perk that the book unlocks crafting for anyways.

In turn this system is more intuitive but is far more grindy. Numbers need to be punched down to make it fun instead of a grindfest.

The same could be said of this vesrion... the books give you the mean to craft stuff, so no need to level the perks... On the contrary, you MUST read books in order to craft stuff. It only gatekeeps progression instead of making it different. The books in a20 allowed you to specialise in a skill tree to get the most out of it and still have the ability to craft low quality stuff from other skills. In a21, you can craft everything of higher quality, regardless of how you attributed your perks. And even if you reduce the number of books to read to get max bonus, you'll end up with something ever more broken than a20...

I'm being the devil's advocate here.. I just think the new skill system makes spending perks point almost obsolete, and is only here to slowdown early gameplay.

[Roland]

Originally posted by optOut:

I dig it, but I also think I'd enjoy it more with half the amount of book/magazine drops.

Try putting loot to 50%. It really slows down the progression and makes early game thirst survival a lot more challenging. A21 50% loot is a totally different experience than A20 50% loot.

[ld-airgrafix]

I like it, it feels more realistic, being able to cook certain recipes after finding the proper books or crafting certain stations.

[Roland]

Originally posted by Savvy Imposter:

Originally posted by Black Puppet:

Yes and that was the main issue in A20. It felt so underwhelming to find books, it wasnt neccesary. You could skip out on literally all books present or dont skill and in turn only use books. There was an either or but no inbetween cause eventually youd have to skill in that very perk that the book unlocks crafting for anyways.

In turn this system is more intuitive but is far more grindy. Numbers need to be punched down to make it fun instead of a grindfest.

The same could be said of this vesrion... the books give you the mean to craft stuff, so no need to level the perks... On the contrary, you MUST read books in order to craft stuff. It only gatekeeps progression instead of making it different. The books in a20 allowed you to specialise in a skill tree to get the most out of it and still have the ability to craft low quality stuff from other skills. In a21, you can craft everything of higher quality, regardless of how you attributed your perks. And even if you reduce the number of books to read to get max bonus, you'll end up with something ever more broken than a20...

I'm being the devil's advocate here.. I just think the new skill system makes spending perks point almost obsolete, and is only here to slowdown early gameplay.

The book sets of A20 are still in A21 with a few changes. The magazines are separate from those book sets and did not replace them.

I hope you'll keep trying the new system and keep giving feedback. Not everyone is going to like every system but it is important to know why people aren't enjoying it. First impression feedback is important but so is feedback after getting used to it and trying a couple of different builds. Sometimes you are lucky in one playthrough and progress steadily and sometimes you are unlucky and progression takes longer.

[Defektiv]

Originally posted by Savvy Imposter:

I'm being the devil's advocate here.. I just think the new skill system makes spending perks point almost obsolete, and is only here to slowdown early gameplay.

I feel like it puts perks where they were initially intended, at least as it was communicated. As I understood it they were never meant to be the primary means of progression but a compliment to it, like they are in games like Fallout. So while yeah, I'm not even looking at things like Advanced Engineering or Grease Monkey like I would have in the past, I can see how once I'm closer to end game and using components in volume they will come in handy. And that in turn lets me focus more on survival, movement and a weapon specialization at first.

The new crafting system works for me but they could change it and I would not lose sleep over it. I do think giving it its own system was a good move though. I feel like once upon a time crafting quality progressed by using the skill, maybe I'm making that up. But I'd be all for this new system where you find the mag to unlock the initial craft and then progressed through the quality tiers by using the skill associated to it. It's always addictive to see numbers increase as you're playing the game.

[Crashtian]

Tiers 1-4 of everything but the base items (bone knife, wood club, ect) are pointless to craft still, but otherwise I like the magazine system better than the LBL system.

[ladyeternity]

I like the new skill system compared to what it was. However it's a pain now if you group. If you don't loot you don't get near as much as your buddies in the magazine department (because we share mag's that aren't our specc). And it makes looting a pain in the arse. So my husband is the cook and the crop guy as well as bow and sneak. So he loots all the 'food' looking loot. So ALL cabinets, food piles, fridges so on and so forth. We split the 'bookcases' and crack-a-book boxes and piles. I am Intelligence with Tool Making. So I loot all the Mo Power stuff, pretty much all the trash piles, some shelving (when I can determine it's technical stuff from the graphics...sometimes it's hard to tell), Medical stuff. For the Main chest in a POI we take turns.

Before this update, my husband was the main looter....always. This allowed a concentration on Loot uppers. We play Undead Legacy a lot, and in that mod you get better at doing. So having a main looter works well.

Anyway, now looting is a headache. I want to play and have fun, not sit here and scrutinize shelving - trying to discern what category the loot will fall under and who should loot it. It's annoying.

I do LOVE what the mag's do. I just really hate the mechanic in a grouping situation.

As for the revamp of the perks, I love them. They are wonderful. :)

[Oktokolo]

It definitely feels way better to me to loot some usable magazines everywhere which don't advance me much than to loot nothing usable most of the time but sometimes a way more usable book is found. So i like the new crafting magazines more than recipes being tied to perks and books. They should add magazines to unlock weapon/tool mods too instead of requiring us to find the exact right mod recipe.