No Win Trap Rooms...

[Callirgos]

All of the POIs have some really good updates. The team at Fun Pimps did a lot of great work, and I do appreciate it - on multiple levels. I'm even learning to love the book/skill system. Honestly, since I discovers this game, recently, it's become one of my favorites.

However, I truly hate the "No Win Trap Rooms". Stop.
1. Walk into a confined space
2. A door opens somewhere you can't see, or zombies spawn out of LoS.
3. "Guess what player!? You're trapped, boxed in. Clever, right?"

I'm a super paranoid player, carry ladders on my hot bar, meds, multiple weapon solutions, even building blocks. I'm also a game designer. These trap room triggers are bad. They punish players with the most investment in the game, and rely solely on someone learning the hard way.... or worse using the internet first.

I've become convinced that every bathroom is a trap room now... it's an awful experience.

Trap rooms are fine, as long as you provide enough space to maneuver an escape. That should be written on a whiteboard at the office, or on the Miro board used by level designers.

I don't get a sense of challenge from these trap room triggers. It's just a way to kill anyone below level 10-12. Sure, all the jump scares are there, but now the player's survival investment is out the window. I now KNOW that the are just some situations where I will die because the area designer planned it. It undercuts the entire motivation, the core design pillar, of the game itself.

Rethink these trap room triggers. Here are some options:
1. Add some escape route to each one of them.
2. Unclutter or redesign the space with enough (minimal) maneuverability for a player of reasonable skill, after being rattled, to fight or create an exit.
3. Do not fire the trap room trigger if the player is under level 10 (or some value)
4. Restrict trap room triggers to one monster if the player is playing solo
5. Any POI with a trap room trigger cannot be listed as a one skull area.
6. Remove the triggers all together on "normal" or "easy".

[Lyote]

Trap rooms are extremely common in player made POIs.
They're fun if done well. Like the Military Base loot room that has a small horde of zombies bust through the wall when you pass into the room.
Its good because if you rushed inside, getting back to the entrance tunnel is difficult. But if you were careful on entry, you can turn the tunnel into a killbox.

It rewards you for careful play and punishes rushing.

Thought i 100% agree that many trap rooms are downright awfully implemented.
I dont want them gone because the good ones are fun.
But they really need to clean up some of the trap rooms so the player has counterplay options other than "i knew this was going to happen, so i cheesed the trigger to render the trap harmless".

[Sykomancer]

Vanity Tower treasure chamber

Please reconsider the treasure area of Vanity Tower. I entered this area during an Infestation mission and was absolutely destroyed as zeds poured out of every corridor. Every other T5 location's treasure area felt fair as you could fall back in the face of an overwhelming horde. Vanity Tower allows no such advantage.

[God At War46]

I'm sure they'll get right on it for you.

[Blue Hasia]

im avoiding infestation quest. they are not fun. all it is is fighting waves of very unbalanced zombies.

stealth is a joke for these missions.

stealth is a bigger joke in 21 also

[Sykomancer]

The Infested Caches at the end are absolutely worth the effort though. It feels like I recover most of the resources I use up during the mission.

[Callirgos]

I agree with your assessment, Lyote.

My major complaint is trap rooms that are literally a bathroom with 2+ zombies that seem to appear and block you in.

This is trivial if you have a gun, or some weapon skill.
However, early game this is a game over.

At the very least, I'd want the player's on-boarding experience (levels 1-5) to have some consideration here.

[Dessembrae]

Originally posted by Callirgos:

All of the POIs have some really good updates. The team at Fun Pimps did a lot of great work, and I do appreciate it - on multiple levels. I'm even learning to love the book/skill system. Honestly, since I discovers this game, recently, it's become one of my favorites.

However, I truly hate the "No Win Trap Rooms". Stop.
1. Walk into a confined space
2. A door opens somewhere you can't see, or zombies spawn out of LoS.
3. "Guess what player!? You're trapped, boxed in. Clever, right?"

I'm a super paranoid player, carry ladders on my hot bar, meds, multiple weapon solutions, even building blocks. I'm also a game designer. These trap room triggers are bad. They punish players with the most investment in the game, and rely solely on someone learning the hard way.... or worse using the internet first.

I've become convinced that every bathroom is a trap room now... it's an awful experience.

Trap rooms are fine, as long as you provide enough space to maneuver an escape. That should be written on a whiteboard at the office, or on the Miro board used by level designers.

I don't get a sense of challenge from these trap room triggers. It's just a way to kill anyone below level 10-12 Sure, all the jump scares are there, but now the player's survival investment is out the window. I now KNOW that the are just some situations where I will die because the area designer planned it. It undercuts the entire motivation, the core design pillar, of the game itself.

Rethink these trap room triggers. Here are some options:
1. Add some escape route to each one of them.
2. Unclutter or redesign the space with enough (minimal) maneuverability for a player of
reasonable skill, after being rattled, to fight or create an exit.
3. Do not fire the trap room trigger if the player is under level 10 (or some value)
4. Restrict trap room triggers to one monster if the player is playing solo
5. Any POI with a trap room trigger cannot be listed as a one skull area.
6. Remove the triggers all together on "normal" or "easy".

I am playing on insane difficulty - trap rooms without an exit available are impossible for me currently. I play like you, I don't jump into any hole without first putting up a ladder, setting up my trusty ♥♥♥♥-puncher machine by the entrance, and making sure I have a clear way to a 3 block tall safe space. If there's a way to spring the trap I might survive, but getting boxed in without an escape possible is just not fun.

Btw, one way I've managed to avoid a lot of this is by doing quests backwards. Break into the reward room and get every zoomer in there to run after you into your own trap. Half of the time it works all the time.

[Mac]

This is the game, get a full auto weapon ASAP and have it on your hotbar at all times. Be prepared for shedloads of zombies on infestation quests. Always have some kind of blocks to block up doorways and seal yourself into a killbox, especially on t4+ POIs. I don't enter a t4+ without a machine gun and concrete blocks.

[Sugam]

Sorry you hate it OP, but I do not mind it. all it takes is preparation and they are trivial. *shrugs* can't please everyone.

[Dester]

Originally posted by Callirgos:

I don't get a sense of challenge from these trap room triggers. It's just a way to kill anyone below level 10-12 Sure, all the jump scares are there, but now the player's survival investment is out the window. I now KNOW that the are just some situations where I will die because the area designer planned it. It undercuts the entire motivation, the core design pillar, of the game itself.

If playing where you die and recollect your stuff then I don't mind whatever crazy death traps await me... and I will take the path designed by developers.
If playing a hardcore game where my character dies permanently if killed then I will choose my own path which usually involves knocking out one or two walls because I treat the character as if it's a real person.... and no real person would jump into a hole with hidden zombies.

In both scenarios it's not a problem for me... the biggest problem staying alive is very early game with getting your hands on a pipe machine gun or other type of machine gun with 50 rounds of ammo extra in inventory. Once this is established I feel confident entering almost any POI location.

[william_es]

Robot turrets.

For scary POI's I use 2 shooting turrets. They can stop whole waves of zombies dead in their tracks. Full auto, drum magazines, and extended barrel mods. They automatically do headshots, with 300% damage from intellect 10. Zombies heads pop like water balloons.

I stand behind them with a charged up stun baton, with repulsor mod installed. If any zombies get close to the turrets, I given them one good whomp and a whole pack is blasted backwards across the room.

In less scary places, I use 1 shooting, and 1 sledge hammer turret, just to save turret ammo.

[lexgeo]

Originally posted by Callirgos:

All of the POIs have some really good updates. The team at Fun Pimps did a lot of great work, and I do appreciate it - on multiple levels. I'm even learning to love the book/skill system. Honestly, since I discovers this game, recently, it's become one of my favorites.

However, I truly hate the "No Win Trap Rooms". Stop.
1. Walk into a confined space
2. A door opens somewhere you can't see, or zombies spawn out of LoS.
3. "Guess what player!? You're trapped, boxed in. Clever, right?"

I'm a super paranoid player, carry ladders on my hot bar, meds, multiple weapon solutions, even building blocks. I'm also a game designer. These trap room triggers are bad. They punish players with the most investment in the game, and rely solely on someone learning the hard way.... or worse using the internet first.

I've become convinced that every bathroom is a trap room now... it's an awful experience.

Trap rooms are fine, as long as you provide enough space to maneuver an escape. That should be written on a whiteboard at the office, or on the Miro board used by level designers.

I don't get a sense of challenge from these trap room triggers. It's just a way to kill anyone below level 10-12 Sure, all the jump scares are there, but now the player's survival investment is out the window. I now KNOW that the are just some situations where I will die because the area designer planned it. It undercuts the entire motivation, the core design pillar, of the game itself.

Rethink these trap room triggers. Here are some options:
1. Add some escape route to each one of them.
2. Unclutter or redesign the space with enough (minimal) maneuverability for a player of
reasonable skill, after being rattled, to fight or create an exit.
3. Do not fire the trap room trigger if the player is under level 10 (or some value)
4. Restrict trap room triggers to one monster if the player is playing solo
5. Any POI with a trap room trigger cannot be listed as a one skull area.
6. Remove the triggers all together on "normal" or "easy".

i watched them teleport in in the block right in front of me. not just outside the door/around the corner. this kills the stealth play and nerfs makes sniper useless in these poi's.
as for rethinking the "trap room?" poi, i will just skip that poi now. the other trap areas were not all that hard to handle.

[Lemon]

Originally posted by Blue Hasia:

im avoiding infestation quest. they are not fun. all it is is fighting waves of very unbalanced zombies.

stealth is a joke for these missions.

stealth is a bigger joke in 21 also

for me stealth has been a huge factor, its my main source of damage in the last two runs i have been playing and i got blessed with a supressor early on